Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

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Post by Roundsquare on Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:53 pm

Kizu wrote:You didn't see 2005-2007 Kaka if you say that he is back. His ability with the ball is bad, he lost his pace, doesn't have the passing ability he had at Milan.

Well you didn't see Kaka this season or the last one, he hasn't lost all of his pace, even at 30 he is faster than new signing Modric. In demonstration that he hasn't lost all of his speed he was all over the pitch at the Ajax match on Wednesday, he outpaced the Ajax defenders more than once, and displayed great agility.

Under which definition of 'bad' is Kaka's ball ability bad? Didn't you see how he slipped passed defenders into Ajax' penalty box more than once using silky footwork? As for his passing ability he was Real Madrid's second highest passer last season in La Liga even though he frequently featured as an impact sub and had an above average passing accuracy rate virtually equalling Mesut's passing accuracy rate.

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Post by Valkyrja on Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:04 pm

@Roundsquare wrote:
Kizu wrote:You didn't see 2005-2007 Kaka if you say that he is back. His ability with the ball is bad, he lost his pace, doesn't have the passing ability he had at Milan.

Well you didn't see Kaka this season or the last one, he hasn't lost all of his pace, even at 30 he is faster than new signing Modric. In demonstration that he hasn't lost all of his speed he was all over the pitch at the Ajax match on Wednesday, he outpaced the Ajax defenders more than once, and displayed great agility.

Under which definition of 'bad' is Kaka's ball ability bad? Didn't you see how he slipped passed defenders into Ajax' penalty box more than once using silky footwork? As for his passing ability he was Real Madrid's second highest passer last season in La Liga even though he frequently featured as an impact sub and had an above average passing accuracy rate virtually equalling Mesut's passing accuracy rate.

Modric isn't a player who needs super speed like Kaka.

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Post by Roundsquare on Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:40 pm

Kizu wrote:

Modric isn't a player who needs super speed like Kaka.

Kaka can adapt to other roles that do not request super speed, the point is Kaka hasn't lost all of his speed, and if as you say he has lost his speed why does he continue to have great games, like the Ajax match for example, or the preseason Milan game? Doesn't 't the fact that he continues to have good games indicate that speed is not such a huge factor of his game?

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Post by Cyborg on Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:44 pm

Kizu wrote:You didn't see 2005-2007 Kaka if you say that he is back. His ability with the ball is bad, he lost his pace, doesn't have the passing ability he had at Milan.

exactly ppl say kakak is back, but he isnt.

he is still better than a lot of players. but he isnt as good as he was and will never be, that is it.

i am a fan of kaka but ozil is still better, ppl say he hasnt been as good as last season

ive watched all madrid games and he hasnt been as good, but he is still more influential than anyone in the attacking midfield position in the world probably.

kaka is a great player, kaka had his chance, though he is still contributing to the team, but ozil has to be the main guy

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Post by Roundsquare on Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:01 pm

@Cyborg wrote:
Kizu wrote:You didn't see 2005-2007 Kaka if you say that he is back. His ability with the ball is bad, he lost his pace, doesn't have the passing ability he had at Milan.

exactly ppl say kakak is back, but he isnt.

he is still better than a lot of players. but he isnt as good as he was and will never be, that is it.

i am a fan of kaka but ozil is still better, ppl say he hasnt been as good as last season

ive watched all madrid games and he hasnt been as good, but he is still more influential than anyone in the attacking midfield position in the world probably.

kaka is a great player, kaka had his chance, though he is still contributing to the team, but ozil has to be the main guy

Ozil is clearly better than Kaka when it comes to making the killer pass, however last season in La Liga Ozil didn't have better passing accuracy than Kaka, they were virtually on the same level, Ozil completed more passes but he also played 20 hours more football than Kaka.

I will challenge your point that Ozil is the most influential midfielder in the game so far this season. Against Ajax Kaka gave the best CAM performance of any Real Madrid player this new season, apart from Kaka Di Maria has outperformed Ozil.

No question Ozil is incredible in build up play and is a wonderful play maker, but Kaka offers more than a killer pass, he runs at defenses and unsettles back lines, he takes dipping shots and is game changer even at this age.

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Post by Valkyrja on Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:17 pm

Off form Ozil is still the best and most influential AM in the world. That tells you what kind of player he is.

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Post by Roundsquare on Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:04 pm

KAKA is NOT FINISHED! And can still send Ozil on a run for his money. His come back continued on the right path on Thursday night as he went beast mode on Iraq scoring, assisting and just being a thorn in the side.

Kaka shone in every single game this season including in preseason. This should be the longest run of form the Brazilian has enjoyed since moving to the Spanish Capital, I’m glad for him because he is hungry for success. More and more is he looking like his former Milan self skipping pass defenders scoring blinders with his right foot and left, even with his bum (against Millonarios) he’s defensive work rate has soared as well. Hopefully Mou will grant him the opportunity to exhibit his capabilities against a strong team and integrate him back into the starting lineup because he deserves it.

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Post by huntsman on Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:32 pm

Funny thing is whenever Kaka delivers; Madrid fans; not all, just those in this section, give him the cold shoulder.

No you madrid fans, you didnt draw against Barca because of Ozil's brilliance or Di Maria's superiority; you drew the game and lost La Liga because the Boss wasnt playing.

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Post by Onyx on Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:45 pm

Kaka has had a few months every season where he's on form.

However Modric is better imo and Kaka failed vs Bayern.
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Post by huntsman on Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:56 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:Kaka has had a few months every season where he's on form.

However Modric is better imo and Kaka failed vs Bayern.

Every season? Every season? One season only. Now you cant deliver if you always have a bulls eye pointed towards you; if you know that anytime the coach will pull the plug on you, can you?

Modric and Ozil are comparable; you can compare two potatoes, but not with Kaka.

Kaka didnt fail against bayern he was sanctioned; unleashed only in the final minutes because of a necessity which arouse based on the tactical failure of the coach and inability of madrid player to deliver.

Again, what you're missing is, every player has a different mind set, and has to be understood and approached differently. You're not a coach, i'll give you that, but Mourinho should know that already.
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Post by FalcaoPunch on Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:57 pm

Every damn season that kaka has been here he has had short bursts of great form.

Every season.
Now I don't count that initial injury that left him out for so long.

However I have noticed that Kaka will regain form play great for a couple of games then Mou will bench him.
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Post by SuperMAG on Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:00 am

i dunno why u are even talking to the a well known troll about the only player that trolls about.\

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Post by Roundsquare on Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:03 pm

ColoJunior wrote:Every damn season that kaka has been here he has had short bursts of great form.

Every season.
Now I don't count that initial injury that left him out for so long.

However I have noticed that Kaka will regain form play great for a couple of games then Mou will bench him.

As you say Mourinho benches Kaka after a couple of games in so doing restricting his form. Hopefully Kaka will see more pitch time this season, a player should not be denied his hunger for success.

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Post by Valkyrja on Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:02 pm

Every season in Madrid, Kaka had some good games, and then disappeared. He isn't half of the player he was in Milan

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Post by Roundsquare on Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:49 pm

Kizu wrote:Every season in Madrid, Kaka had some good games, and then disappeared. He isn't half of the player he was in Milan

He is still a world class footballer that can deliver if he's let to.

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Post by Valkyrja on Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:35 pm

@Roundsquare wrote:
Kizu wrote:Every season in Madrid, Kaka had some good games, and then disappeared. He isn't half of the player he was in Milan

He is still a world class footballer that can deliver if he's let to.

He's not world class. He hasn't performed at the highest level since 2007-2008... He's decent.

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Post by huntsman on Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:10 am

Kizu wrote:
@Roundsquare wrote:
Kizu wrote:Every season in Madrid, Kaka had some good games, and then disappeared. He isn't half of the player he was in Milan

He is still a world class footballer that can deliver if he's let to.

He's not world class. He hasn't performed at the highest level since 2007-2008... He's decent.

Who's world class bar Messi and Cristiano?
Who's a world class player bar cristiano in Madrid? The answer is none or Kaka.

You should stop comparing him to his former self; Kaka of 2007 was only bested by Messi in the last 20 years. Only Messi comes close to Kaka of 2007 or bests him.

Kaka of 2013 is still world class; true he's no more on the same ground as Kaka 2007, but no one bar messi is . Even Cristiano isnt as good as Kaka 2007 was.

Kaka is still one of Madrid's best players.
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Post by FalcaoPunch on Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:20 am

Based off of what? His name?
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Post by Donuts on Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:22 am

ColoJunior wrote:Based off of what? His name?
Every time he starts he plays if not man of the match then second best.. why fap about Di Marias skills on stupid games and when Kaka does well "it's only Iraq, or Ajax etc etc."

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Post by vanDEEZ on Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:04 am

@Donuts wrote:
ColoJunior wrote:Based off of what? His name?
Every time he starts he plays if not man of the match then second best.. why fap about Di Marias skills on stupid games and when Kaka does well "it's only Iraq, or Ajax etc etc."

have you seen kaka the past 4 years? its the same every season, he will have a few good games (usually against weak teams) then he will go invisible for months.

colo is right, people continue to prop him up because of what he has done in the past and his name but if you look at his recent past (his years with madrid and even his last milan year) you will realize he has not come close to earning that fat paycheck he makes every week.
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Post by FalcaoPunch on Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:35 am

@Donuts wrote:
ColoJunior wrote:Based off of what? His name?
Every time he starts he plays if not man of the match then second best.. why fap about Di Marias skills on stupid games and when Kaka does well "it's only Iraq, or Ajax etc etc."

I don't even like Di Maria dude.
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Post by Donuts on Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:51 am

ColoJunior wrote:
@Donuts wrote:
ColoJunior wrote:Based off of what? His name?
Every time he starts he plays if not man of the match then second best.. why fap about Di Marias skills on stupid games and when Kaka does well "it's only Iraq, or Ajax etc etc."

I don't even like Di Maria dude.
I'm not saying you like him, but it's unfair judgement in my opinion you clearly have higher ranking in the current Madrid squad with Kaka near bottom for some reason. I do not understand, this season whenever he plays he always involved more then Ozil or Modric.

@vanDEEZ wrote:
@Donuts wrote:
ColoJunior wrote:Based off of what? His name?
Every time he starts he plays if not man of the match then second best.. why fap about Di Marias skills on stupid games and when Kaka does well "it's only Iraq, or Ajax etc etc."

have you seen kaka the past 4 years? its the same every season, he will have a few good games (usually against weak teams) then he will go invisible for months.

colo is right, people continue to prop him up because of what he has done in the past and his name but if you look at his recent past (his years with madrid and even his last milan year) you will realize he has not come close to earning that fat paycheck he makes every week.
I'm not bringing up the past by any way or form all I have been saying is since Madrids horrible start in the league Kaka has been one of your better if not best players when played, so why underrate him currently, also it is never a players fault that the club is overpaying, should of sold him for a lower price.

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Post by FalcaoPunch on Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:57 am

But he's rarely played. One friendly against a poop team.
And a solid performance from Ajax.


We are merely stating that this thread is pointless. Kaka has not been more influential than Ozil if we compare what both have done since their arrival.


Kaka has short stints and burst of form and then in a short of amount of time he disappears once again. As much as I would love for him to get back to the top I can't see that happening after so long. Despite really wanting him to feel confident and comfortable again on a consistent basis.
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Post by vanDEEZ on Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:18 am

@Donuts wrote:
I'm not bringing up the past by any way or form all I have been saying is since Madrids horrible start in the league Kaka has been one of your better if not best players when played, so why underrate him currently, also it is never a players fault that the club is overpaying, should of sold him for a lower price.

i dont think kaka has even played 90 minutes so far (definitely not including the friendly match against that colombian team) so to compare him to anyone based on what he has done this season is a bit unfair especially since he hasnt played against any team i consider actual competition.

even considering the matches he has played, which yes he played well against ajax, he has been out shined by players of less skill, less experience, less playing time with madrid, and players further from their physical peak than kaka.

and true its not the players fault he is overpaid, but imo he should have been sold, and considering we bought another player in his position i would say we were trying to sell him.
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Post by Roundsquare on Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:31 am

ColoJunior wrote:But he's rarely played. One friendly against a poop team.
And a solid performance from Ajax.


We are merely stating that this thread is pointless. Kaka has not been more influential than Ozil if we compare what both have done since their arrival.


Kaka has short stints and burst of form and then in a short of amount of time he disappears once again. As much as I would love for him to get back to the top I can't see that happening after so long. Despite really wanting him to feel confident and comfortable again on a consistent basis.

He has never been fully fit in the last 2 years and then again due to inconsistent minutes he could hardly build on his good form. He's enjoying the longest run of form since his transfer so let's cut the player some slack. Injury and bench time took a toll on his last 3 seasons, be that as it may Kakà has been much better for Madrid then many fans would like to admit, whenever he has gotten consistent playing time. Last season in the UCL he was the top assist.


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Post by Roundsquare on Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:49 am

@vanDEEZ wrote:
@Donuts wrote:
I'm not bringing up the past by any way or form all I have been saying is since Madrids horrible start in the league Kaka has been one of your better if not best players when played, so why underrate him currently, also it is never a players fault that the club is overpaying, should of sold him for a lower price.

i dont think kaka has even played 90 minutes so far (definitely not including the friendly match against that colombian team) so to compare him to anyone based on what he has done this season is a bit unfair especially since he hasnt played against any team i consider actual competition.

even considering the matches he has played, which yes he played well against ajax, he has been out shined by players of less skill, less experience, less playing time with madrid, and players further from their physical peak than kaka.

and true its not the players fault he is overpaid, but imo he should have been sold, and considering we bought another player in his position i would say we were trying to sell him.


Care to name the players of less skill, less experience, and less playing time that outshone Kaka in the matches he played this season?

Since he played fewer minutes he's had less time to make a mark or to leave a lasting impression so I agree it isn't fair not for his teammates but to him to compare him with individuals who've been awarded more opportunities to impress the coach. Kaka took the few chances he was given well, that should be the objective of any player, and based on his handwork and current top form he has earned more playing time.

If you reject arguments for Kaka based on his past status as a Balon d'Or winner then you should equally reject arguments against him based on his poor form from seasons passed. If we can't make use of his legendary status to argue positively for him you should not have the luxury to argue against him based on his history of poor form. The present is what counts. Like any player the only thing that should be relevant is his current form.

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