Man Uniteds IPO

Its early, obviously (IPO was today) - but even before today a lot of analysts were all saying that MANU was overvalued even at $14 per share (14.05 was its opening price) even though ManU was originally looking for an opening in the $16-20 per share range. The Glazers were originally looking for an IPO that would value the company at over $3 Billion, but by opening the bidding today at $14.05, the company was basically valued at $2.3 Billion...

Stock analysts have hammered the stock, noting that the club still has $666.2 million in debt. The Glazers originally claimed the IPO (which was predicted to raise about $234 million) would be entirely used to pay down the debt, but more recent reports have suggested that as much as 1/2 of any money raised would go directly to The Glazers themselves. In addition, the Glazers are going to maintain complete control of "B" shares (which have 10x as much voting power as the shares being offered at the IPO)....So basically the Glazers would remain in control of about 99% of the voting power

Some analysts have claimed its more realistically valued as low as $10 per share, because investors don't get any say, instead the only thing they receive for their investment is a piece of a company with crushing debt

They are going to leech off United until there's nothing left. They don't care about football let alone the club. All they do to keep the club running is by getting new loans. They have tried issuing bonds, money loans and now public offering. What's next if the club bleeds out even faster? bankruptcy? Fcking a-holes...... Before they owned the club, United were debt free!

Why cant teams like United who makes big revenue each year run by fans ?

Adit wrote:Why cant teams like United who makes big revenue each year run by fans ?

How do you propose the fans generate the money to buy the club?

BhritanniaBhlue wrote:

Adit wrote:Why cant teams like United who makes big revenue each year run by fans ?

How do you propose the fans generate the money to buy the club?

Take a look at the German system and the 50+1 rule

BhritanniaBhlue wrote:

Adit wrote:Why cant teams like United who makes big revenue each year run by fans ?

How do you propose the fans generate the money to buy the club?

Obviously cant be done overnight,but if it is done then there will be nothing that going to stop Yanited.

Dutti wrote:They are going to leech off United until there's nothing left. They don't care about football let alone the club. All they do to keep the club running is by getting new loans. They have tried issuing bonds, money loans and now public offering. What's next if the club bleeds out even faster? bankruptcy? Fcking a-holes...... Before they owned the club, United were debt free!

Errr, hasn't the debt been constantly decreased and United's revenues grown every year? Aren't United signing world-class players like Kagawa and perhaps Van Persie in this window? What's exactly so bad about the Glazers' ownership?

Adit wrote:Why cant teams like United who makes big revenue each year run by fans ?

Because they simply are not? Football clubs have first been owned by their founder(s) and when you found a company you can sell it on and that's what happens. No room for collective fan ownership there.

what imbecile would buy the stock anyway? you're not getting voting rights, you're not getting dividends, you're not gonna get any capital gains, only thing you're getting is a warm fuzzy feeling of "owning" a football club

and owning a club without any voting rights isnt really owning it at all anyway

These kind of shares are issued so that owners can raise cash while not diluting their control. But there can be dividends (don't know whether this is the case with United) and there can most definitely be capital gains. These shares will still rise in price if the value of the club increases. These shares will be at a discount to the original value due to lack of voting control, but it is still a legitimate class of stock and one that will still give an investor capital gains provided the company does well.

And how can there ambiguity in what the proceeds will be used for? This should be mentioned in the draft prospectus and if the plan is deviated from, then there can be action against the company i assume.

kiranr wrote:These shares will still rise in price if the value of the club increases. These shares will be at a discount to the original value due to lack of voting control, but it is still a legitimate class of stock and one that will still give an investor capital gains provided the company does well.

but i seriously doubt the price would increase... it's not like someone in a year will suddenly realize that he wants to buy manchester united shares, and as far as immediate profitability goes they're pretty much shit

imo it's gonna tank even worse after the ipo, everyone who wants to get on it for the bragging rights will do so in the first few weeks, and like i said there's pretty much zero money to be made out of it for any serious investors

che wrote:
but i seriously doubt the price would increase... it's not like someone in a year will suddenly realize that he wants to buy manchester united shares, and as far as immediate profitability goes they're pretty much shit

Agreed about the immediate profitability part and probably, even a year later, the price could go lower or stay the same.

che wrote:
imo it's gonna tank even worse after the ipo, everyone who wants to get on it for the bragging rights will do so in the first few weeks, and like i said there's pretty much zero money to be made out of it for any serious investors

But do you believe United will not grow in worth over, say, the next 5 years? I think there will be some growth in value and possibly profits over that time period, but how much of that will get reflected in the share price is a different story. In an efficient market, it should be reflected.

United's valuation and revenues have been steadily growing, so in theory it's not stupid to buy these shares. It's just that the timing is bad, most investors are cautious and have little faith in these IPOs right now.

Art Morte wrote:

Dutti wrote:They are going to leech off United until there's nothing left. They don't care about football let alone the club. All they do to keep the club running is by getting new loans. They have tried issuing bonds, money loans and now public offering. What's next if the club bleeds out even faster? bankruptcy? Fcking a-holes...... Before they owned the club, United were debt free!

Errr, hasn't the debt been constantly decreased and United's revenues grown every year? Aren't United signing world-class players like Kagawa and perhaps Van Persie in this window? What's exactly so bad about the Glazers' ownership?

In fact, that's not true. In the last three months of 2011, United's massive debt has increased to over 500m pounds due to interest from leveraged buyout of the club by those a-hole glazers.

What they have been doing is just desperately covering the debt by borrowing money through means like bond issues. They have never planned any concrete business strategy at all, yet they keep on milking the club.

Edit: We're able to buy players because we have cash reserve which is used for running the club instead of reducing the debt. Either that or I think more likely, United use some of the revenue on players.

Art Morte wrote:United's valuation and revenues have been steadily growing, so in theory it's not stupid to buy these shares. It's just that the timing is bad, most investors are cautious and have little faith in these IPOs right now.

The share price barely moves at all... lol

http://www.nyse.com/about/listed/lcddata.html?ticker=MANU

Ummmm all shares sold according to plan
Did I miss something?

cyberman wrote:Ummmm all shares sold according to plan
Did I miss something?

Yes, knowledge of how the business world works.

THis thread had some input on the situation already: https://goallegacy.forumotion.com/t23375-glazers-to-milk-manu-even-more

All shares were sold at 14, the money is already in the glazers pocket
Again, what did I miss? The 16 original price that was quoted for the Asian market and was never intended to be the price in the states?

Please explain... I.... I just don't understand....

Asian market? That plan has long been cancelled.

The IPO was intended to be valued at $16 per share but analysts gave too many negative comments. So it was revalued to $14.

I'm pretty sure the 16 price was never quoted for the American market
Boo hoo anyway. The glazers now have a 2.1 billion pound price for the club whil pocketing 76m and paying off 20% of the debt
All without lifting a finger

Where's the problem here?

Yeah, i agree

I don't like it, but this was a BIG win for the glazers. Almost free money.

I just don't see how people can claim that. If this was true, it would be logical for EVERY team to do it, even minnows in tiny leagues. Every cent made would be free money, so there's no risk at all, even if you only sell 5 shares at a dollar a piece; that's five more dollars.

The truth of it is, that with the club being valued below what they expected on the open market, it's harming ManU in many other ways. Investment value (not just from individuals or as shares, but in terms of loans and relationships with banks), sponsorship money, ability to expand in terms of real estate are all going to be hampered by their failure to show as high as they were supposed to. Yes, ManU will still be ok financially; they're a huge club with a wide fanbase, and so this isn't going to cripple them or stop them from doing things that they want to. But it does set them back from where they expected to be in the financial markets, and that's never good. The Glazers just pocketed money at the harm of the club (whether because of the debt, or because of the timing of the choice - both are factors in it), and it should not be looked at as an upside by anyone.

Also, cyber, you're wrong - ESPN has been reporting since this occurred that the US pricing was expected to be between 16-20. So it was predicted here as well as anywhere else. They missed expectations by a longshot.

I'm shorting this for sure.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2186454/Manchester-United-shares-trade-huge-discount.html

However, the opening share price of £9 was lower than the £10-£13 initially proposed by the Glazers’ advisers.

At the top end, that would have allowed the American owners and United to split profits of £210m.

Instead, the flotation is expected to raise a total of around £150m, with half going to the Glazers.
It gives United an overall market value of £1.5billion, which falls short of the £1.8bn the owners were believed to have quoted Qatar Holdings when they enquired about buying the club last year.