What does it mean to be a possession based team?

jibers wrote:By most peoples definition Barcelona in 09 were not a possession team. I would simply say a possession team is a team that gives itself multiple passing options for the players. Thats simple enough.

Dutti wrote:

jibers wrote:By most peoples definition Barcelona in 09 were not a possession team. I would simply say a possession team is a team that gives itself multiple passing options for the players. Thats simple enough.

By your definition, every team is possession based.

rwo power wrote:
So passing accuracy-wise, Bayern isn't far behind Barca.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11731/7436000/Pass-masters

The Franchise wrote:

barca 2011 wrote:

The Franchise wrote:I think its simple. You dont have to measure it with possession, amount of passes or whatever. The eye test with do.

I think when people say it, like your friend, what they mean is basically Barcelona. The entire gameplan being about keeping the ball for the two fold advantage it has.

However, to me, I only reserve the title for teams who aim to keep this method regardless of the opponant.

Madrid are going to have 60% of the ball vs La Liga midtable teams because they are just too damn good not to. They have better players, who pass the ball more accurately, have better awareness and are more skilled. The opponants cant match that and their gameplan usually is to forget about winning that battle and focusing on defence.

However, I wouldnt call Madrid a "possession based team" because having the ball for as much as possible isnt what they are trying to do. It just happens in those small games. In the bigger games it doesnt happen, that isnt their gameplan.

I would agree, but when dani says "regardless of the opponent", my question is, would a possession based team also fall under these guidelines regardless of there results? Clearly every team plays to win but I think it would also help to look at less successful teams that can still be called possession based (if any) just to get a better idea of the definition even if it is a bit subjective.

You have lost me a bit here.

Less successful teams would still try tht way, even against more skilled opponants. Like Swansea do.

Phritz wrote:

rwo power wrote:
So passing accuracy-wise, Bayern isn't far behind Barca.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11731/7436000/Pass-masters

It'd be interesting though to see the stats across the entire board, take todays Bayern for example, I doubt that Boateng, Gustavo, Müller, Gomez, Ribéry and Robben passing accuracy would match up to Lahm, Schweini and Badstuber.

peerIess wrote:A possession team is built upon three principles:

1] Ball retention
2] Attacking intelligence
3] Passing

If a team can accomplish all three principles, they can be deemed a "possession-based team".

Ball Retention
The most obvious aspect of a team that would dominate possession. Keeping possession allows you to dominate it, whereas consistently losing possession leads to lower numbers. The key is to not direct a hollywood-pass at every half-opportunity you get. Slow, detailed build-up play is the fundamental base of possession play, and without ball retention there is no possible way that you can dominate possession in a match against a team. Minimizing turnovers, lowering the rate of being dispossessed, and lowering risks are the essential elements of a successful tactic.

The perfect example is that of Futbol Club Barcelona. The recognized triangles are their version of ball retention. If you are being pressured, you have outlets. Not just one. More than one. Collapsing the midfield to provide opportunities for others to keep possession is a strategy that very few teams can implement on a consistent basis.

Attacking Intelligence
You cannot be successful without having attacking intelligence. This encompasses the vision of the passer, and the positional aptitude of the receiver. The passer must have the intelligence to play a pass that allows the receiver a decent amount of time to control the ball, regroup, and assess different options. The receiver must have the intelligence to receive the aforementioned pass in a way that it does not cause risk towards the retention of the ball, and to control it in the sense that it prevents a form of counter-attack in a "worst case scenario" if you were to be dispossessed.

You see this in the most elite players. Just look at Bayern Munich. They are one of the most accomplished "ball-retention based teams" in the world. Their players are rarely dispossessed compared to those of other clubs. They have the attacking intelligence to reach peaks of possession, which is obviously why they are the second most dominant team ranked in possession in the world, with 63 percent. Bastian Schweinsteiger, Luiz Gustavo, Javi Martinez, Thomas Müller, Franck Ribery, Toni Kroos, Arjen Robben, Philipp Lahm, and David Alaba are all efficient in their play. Philipp Lahm and David Alaba are one of best fullbacks at joining the attack, and they both are outstanding players mentally. The trident of Franck Ribery, Toni Kroos, and Thomas Müller are all brilliant. Bastian Schweinsteiger is a phenomenal playmaker. Luiz Gustavo is a great link-up player between defense and attack. The quality of players they have is evident because they are built to the system. The lone player that deviates is Arjen Robben because he goes off on his own tangents quite often.

Passing
The most literal, and most obvious aspect of being a possession-based team. If a team cannot pass, they will not keep possession. This is factually true and simply cannot be disproved. The key component is to have decent passers with both technical ability, but creative ability as well. To be able to creatively attempt a pass that requires ATTACKING INTELLIGENCE, which allows BALL RETENTION, provides the easiest route to being a possession-based team.

Just look at Levante. In the top 5 leagues, Levante is the team with the lowest recorded possession, with a marginal 34.9 percent possession on average. Coincidentally, they have the lowest recorded passing percentage amongst all teams in the top 5 leagues, with a meager 66.2 percent on average. Without accurate passing, keeping possession is not an option. You'd probably have to resort to disgusting football such as the type that Reading Football Club [3rd worst passing percentage] and Stoke City Football Club [4th worst passing percentage] employ.

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Simple.

The Ostracised One wrote:

peerIess wrote:A possession team is built upon three principles:

1] Ball retention
2] Attacking intelligence
3] Passing

If a team can accomplish all three principles, they can be deemed a "possession-based team".

Ball Retention
The most obvious aspect of a team that would dominate possession. Keeping possession allows you to dominate it, whereas consistently losing possession leads to lower numbers. The key is to not direct a hollywood-pass at every half-opportunity you get. Slow, detailed build-up play is the fundamental base of possession play, and without ball retention there is no possible way that you can dominate possession in a match against a team. Minimizing turnovers, lowering the rate of being dispossessed, and lowering risks are the essential elements of a successful tactic.

The perfect example is that of Futbol Club Barcelona. The recognized triangles are their version of ball retention. If you are being pressured, you have outlets. Not just one. More than one. Collapsing the midfield to provide opportunities for others to keep possession is a strategy that very few teams can implement on a consistent basis.

Attacking Intelligence
You cannot be successful without having attacking intelligence. This encompasses the vision of the passer, and the positional aptitude of the receiver. The passer must have the intelligence to play a pass that allows the receiver a decent amount of time to control the ball, regroup, and assess different options. The receiver must have the intelligence to receive the aforementioned pass in a way that it does not cause risk towards the retention of the ball, and to control it in the sense that it prevents a form of counter-attack in a "worst case scenario" if you were to be dispossessed.

You see this in the most elite players. Just look at Bayern Munich. They are one of the most accomplished "ball-retention based teams" in the world. Their players are rarely dispossessed compared to those of other clubs. They have the attacking intelligence to reach peaks of possession, which is obviously why they are the second most dominant team ranked in possession in the world, with 63 percent. Bastian Schweinsteiger, Luiz Gustavo, Javi Martinez, Thomas Müller, Franck Ribery, Toni Kroos, Arjen Robben, Philipp Lahm, and David Alaba are all efficient in their play. Philipp Lahm and David Alaba are one of best fullbacks at joining the attack, and they both are outstanding players mentally. The trident of Franck Ribery, Toni Kroos, and Thomas Müller are all brilliant. Bastian Schweinsteiger is a phenomenal playmaker. Luiz Gustavo is a great link-up player between defense and attack. The quality of players they have is evident because they are built to the system. The lone player that deviates is Arjen Robben because he goes off on his own tangents quite often.

Passing
The most literal, and most obvious aspect of being a possession-based team. If a team cannot pass, they will not keep possession. This is factually true and simply cannot be disproved. The key component is to have decent passers with both technical ability, but creative ability as well. To be able to creatively attempt a pass that requires ATTACKING INTELLIGENCE, which allows BALL RETENTION, provides the easiest route to being a possession-based team.

Just look at Levante. In the top 5 leagues, Levante is the team with the lowest recorded possession, with a marginal 34.9 percent possession on average. Coincidentally, they have the lowest recorded passing percentage amongst all teams in the top 5 leagues, with a meager 66.2 percent on average. Without accurate passing, keeping possession is not an option. You'd probably have to resort to disgusting football such as the type that Reading Football Club [3rd worst passing percentage] and Stoke City Football Club [4th worst passing percentage] employ.

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Simple.

Nice little dictionary definition, but in applications is very different. City play through the centre and use short passes yet when they came up against Real Madrid they were dominated, are Real Madrid a possession based team then? NO. Manchester United sometimes gets 60+% in a lot of games, are we a possession team? LOL, No. This possession team nonsense is because Barcelona started dominationg the ball the way they do. They are the ONLY possession based team in Europe seeing as they are the reason everyone seems to be obssessed with midfielders and passing volumes and statistics.

Some people would say that Juventus are a possession based team but I don't think they are. A lot of it has to do with the opposition as well and how deep they sit. For example in Italy a lot of teams park the bus against Juventus so oviously they will play shorter passes in the final third.

My point of this thread was to show that the whole possession team BS is just that. BS.

RealGunner wrote:They naturally have more of the ball because they are 50 times better than any other team in Bundesliga bar Dortmund. Like madrid in la liga. They are not a possession based team

futbol wrote:A possession based team values possession. [/Yohan Modric]

The Ostracised One wrote:

Shooting - 88

RealGunner wrote:I made that stat pic for u ffs

RealGunner wrote:

futbol wrote:

The Ostracised One wrote:

Shooting - 88

That's racist.