Re: "There is no reason why a top player, a big champion would want a move to Serie A ''-Wenger

by urbaNRoots Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:25 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:
urbaNRoots wrote:
But still Arsenal were a shit team, doesn't anyone remember the "One-nil Arsenal?" jokes? Also Wenger has won other titles other before "The Invincibles" . Wenger can't do what Fergie does.... in fact there aren't many that can do that. I can only hope that soon those days will come hala.

well i can remember the 1-0 Man U jokes as well, thats how you win trophies, dont get me wrong, in fact this season Arsenal played a lot more determined than they did seasons ago, do you think they would have closed the 10 points gap 2 seasons ago??? no i dont think so

Yep Fergie is in his own league when it comes to that, but Wenger has been in the business for nearly as long but not even close to Fergies achievements, they day you actually spent money on proper players you went the season unbeaten, maybe its just Wenger who is stubborn that he thinks a bunch of 20 yos can win you trophies when they obviously can't

I agree with you on spending, it's impossible really. But it's not that Wenger doesn't want to spend, it's the situation at the club which Sri explained it so well. But money and ambition wise, I don't remember the last summer when Arsenal was so close on signing some good players so early.

by halamadrid2 Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:26 pm

srigooner wrote:
We didn't have the transfers budgets nor the wage structure for the players at the peaks I guess. However, we did muck it up with those fat wages for underperformers..

Btw, about your point on the winning mentality, you can read the opening post of the thread titles 'I Will Wait..' in Arsenal section (if you want to, ofcourse).. To an extent I agree with you, but the blame doesn't entirely fall on AW for that..

yepp i have always wondered why you give out nice wages to retards while seems reluctant to raise the wages for your best player(s)

Thanks would love to read it, i know the blame doesn't fall on Wenger, but was he given a budget or was he not is the question, because people make it sound like he didn't want to spend on players because he wanted to continue his model of having young players and raise them up to become world beaters, with the situation Arsenal are in you cant help yourself but agree with that... i have always maintained you cannot win trophies by buying young talented players from abroad to expect them to make a difference it just doesn't work that way... a mix of experienced and young is always the best model

by REWB Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:26 pm

7amood11 wrote:
REWB wrote:
7amood11 wrote:
REWB wrote:
lool if juve can win a trophy after being the 7th best team in the league the year before, than arsenal can do it after being the 3rd best team. juve winning the league just looks bad on seria A tbh, no offence.

That is just terrible logic.

the last sentence was just a dig at juve fans, but the first part is true. if juve can win their league after being 7th than who's to say arsenal cant?

That's because we underwent a complete turnaround, it didn't happen by itself. We bought 11 new players (half of them became regular starters), and we sold off 12 players. We changed half of the squad, basically. And we brought in a new coach who brought in new tactics and a champion mentality (it's NOT a myth).

If Arsenal barely change anything then I doubt they could go for the PL title. Juve actually changed many things and had a 180 degree turn to go and win the title. Arsenal should do something a bit similar.

we are changing things this summer as i have pointed out. define what is champions mentality? what is it? are you telling me you have to have it to win things (which is what nick is claiming)? and tell me how arsenal can acquire it?

by halamadrid2 Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:29 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:
I agree with you on spending, it's impossible really. But it's not that Wenger doesn't want to spend, it's the situation at the club which Sri explained it so well. But money and ambition wise, I don't remember the last summer when Arsenal was so close on signing some good players so early.

Yepp i see you have spent on players to improve your team, but don't you think the defence is a priority??? too many times this season it looked disjointed maybe it b/c it was a makeshift for the better part of the season, but if you get M'Vila that would be the best signing you have done in ages simply because he is a true DM and not a bit of everything that Song is atm, he would be able to protect the back four like a team needs

by Jack Daniels Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:30 pm

REWB wrote:loool what has that got to do with everything? i dont care what england do, we all know english players are overrated, doesn't mean the epl is. the epl is dominated by foreigners, and everyone knows it.

It's not about the match.

The rivalry between sets of fans has been ongoing for 3 years now since the start of our forum.

Though it will mean more work for us. lol

by halamadrid2 Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:32 pm

you will just disappear as usual lol

by Sri Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:32 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:
srigooner wrote:
We didn't have the transfers budgets nor the wage structure for the players at the peaks I guess. However, we did muck it up with those fat wages for underperformers..

Btw, about your point on the winning mentality, you can read the opening post of the thread titles 'I Will Wait..' in Arsenal section (if you want to, ofcourse).. To an extent I agree with you, but the blame doesn't entirely fall on AW for that..

yepp i have always wondered why you give out nice wages to retards while seems reluctant to raise the wages for your best player(s)

Thanks would love to read it, i know the blame doesn't fall on Wenger, but was he given a budget or was he not is the question, because people make it sound like he didn't want to spend on players because he wanted to continue his model of having young players and raise them up to become world beaters, with the situation Arsenal are in you cant help yourself but agree with that... i have always maintained you cannot win trophies by buying young talented players from abroad to expect them to make a difference it just doesn't work that way... a mix of experienced and young is always the best model

Thats just the thing.. Ask a person who has followed the club on and off the pitch long enough and the perspective would be markedly different from what the articles in papers would have you believe..

(Thats also a part of the reason 99% of my posts are limited to Arsenal section - too many posters with opinions formed on the basis of what they read and not what actually is.. It is impossible to make everyone see things the way you see it!)

by Jack Daniels Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:33 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:you will just disappear as usual lol

I never disappeared tbf.. I just post less.

by halamadrid2 Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:35 pm

srigooner wrote:
Thats just the thing.. Ask a person who has followed the club on and off the pitch long enough and the perspective would be markedly different from what the articles in papers would have you believe..

(Thats also a part of the reason 99% of my posts are limited to Arsenal section - too many posters with opinions formed on the basis of what they read and not what actually is.. It is impossible to make everyone see things the way you see it!)

typical lol, people like to make their opinion based on fallacies i see, thanks tho for clearing it up

by Swanhends Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:36 pm

Also RVP is almost 30 right? Makes sense that he would leave the goat farm of EPL for the retirement community of Serie A

by Sri Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:36 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:
Yepp i see you have spent on players to improve your team, but don't you think the defence is a priority??? too many times this season it looked disjointed maybe it b/c it was a makeshift for the better part of the season, but if you get M'Vila that would be the best signing you have done in ages simply because he is a true DM and not a bit of everything that Song is atm, he would be able to protect the back four like a team needs

The amount of mistakes which happen in our midfield - its not even funny! :facepalm:

Maybe M'Vila can help - only time will tell.. (his signing was 99% confirmed before all those rumours disappeared as fast as they appeared :/ )

by Sri Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:38 pm

BhritanniaBhlue wrote:Also RVP is almost 30 right? Makes sense that he would leave the goat farm of EPL for the retirement community of Serie A

Maybe 4 years later when there will be a year left on the deal he will sign this summer.. Laughing

by DuringTheWar Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:39 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:
srigooner wrote:
We didn't have the transfers budgets nor the wage structure for the players at the peaks I guess. However, we did muck it up with those fat wages for underperformers..

Btw, about your point on the winning mentality, you can read the opening post of the thread titles 'I Will Wait..' in Arsenal section (if you want to, ofcourse).. To an extent I agree with you, but the blame doesn't entirely fall on AW for that..

yepp i have always wondered why you give out nice wages to retards while seems reluctant to raise the wages for your best player(s)

Thanks would love to read it, i know the blame doesn't fall on Wenger, but was he given a budget or was he not is the question, because people make it sound like he didn't want to spend on players because he wanted to continue his model of having young players and raise them up to become world beaters, with the situation Arsenal are in you cant help yourself but agree with that... i have always maintained you cannot win trophies by buying young talented players from abroad to expect them to make a difference it just doesn't work that way... a mix of experienced and young is always the best model

the ideology behind that is to prevent there being any big ego prima donnas in the dressing room. In theory everyone being paid equal should be good for the team spirit/ethos, but it just doesnt work. Money talks loudest in football now and to get/keep the best players you have to pay them silly money, with the manchester city's of this world circling like vultures Sad

That means the bulk of the squad has to get paid less to afford it, you can see how this could create problems and disharmony in the squad? some clubs can keep all their players happy with their endless riches but arsenal cant

by halamadrid2 Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:41 pm

srigooner wrote:
The amount of mistakes which happen in our midfield - its not even funny! Maybe M'Vila can help - only time will tell.. (his signing was 99% confirmed before all those rumours disappeared as fast as they appeared :/ )

Yepp imagine a proper DM like M'Vila and Arteta ahead of him spraying the balls around to both Theo and Podolski man that would be awesome, i think your midfield struggled a little bit because everyone attacked i mean Arteta was the closest one to the backline and he is a CM not a DM, maybe Song needs some competition to know his proper position and not wander off thinking he is Zidane all the time

Also i dont think the FBs got the proper protection that they should have gotten, injuries doesn't help either tbh

by Sri Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:46 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:
srigooner wrote:
The amount of mistakes which happen in our midfield - its not even funny! Maybe M'Vila can help - only time will tell.. (his signing was 99% confirmed before all those rumours disappeared as fast as they appeared :/ )

Yepp imagine a proper DM like M'Vila and Arteta ahead of him spraying the balls around to both Theo and Podolski man that would be awesome, i think your midfield struggled a little bit because everyone attacked i mean Arteta was the closest one to the backline and he is a CM not a DM, maybe Song needs some competition to know his proper position and not wander off thinking he is Zidane all the time

Also i dont think the FBs got the proper protection that they should have gotten, injuries doesn't help either tbh

Massive thread derailment by now Very Happy

Yeah.. I guess we need to start looking at Song as a versatile midfield squad player and not as the potentially world class DM we got used to seeing him as..

If any 2 of the following happen :

* Frimpong can step up after his injuries to fill the DM role,
* Ramsey can shrug off the weight of the expectations on him and return to his pre-injury self,
* Rosicky and Arteta can continue like they did this past season without getting injured,
* Coquelin can muster some experience,
* Wilshere can return from injury soon and be back to his form pre-injury,

we would have a formidable midfield already. Add M'Vila to that and voila.

by halamadrid2 Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:46 pm

Diego Armando Maradona wrote:
the ideology behind that is to prevent there being any big ego prima donnas in the dressing room. In theory everyone being paid equal should be good for the team spirit/ethos, but it just doesnt work. Money talks loudest in football now and to get/keep the best players you have to pay them silly money, with the manchester city's of this world circling like vultures That means the bulk of the squad has to get paid less to afford it, you can see how this could create problems and disharmony in the squad? some clubs can keep all their players happy with their endless riches but arsenal cant

I think the whole Arsenal squad know who the best one is in that team and wouldn't complain one bit, i mean if guys like Bentnose and i don't know Arshavin gets alot it doesn't really reflect good on their team, it would only drive more mediocre players to want better wages in the team

i still think you have to start with a low wage and then progressively increase it every 4 years based on appearances/performances etc

Kind of like DiMaria he got 1.5 mill when he started and improved his contract to 3 mill after 2 seasons based on his performances, you don't start with a 5 mill contract for an unknown mediocre player, you do it later to make them stay if somebody wants them

by halamadrid2 Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:53 pm

srigooner wrote:
Massive thread derailment by now

Yeah.. I guess we need to start looking at Song as a versatile midfield squad player and not as the potentially world class DM we got used to seeing him as..

If any 2 of the following happen :

* Frimpong can step up after his injuries to fill the DM role,
* Ramsey can shrug off the weight of the expectations on him and return to his pre-injury self,
* Rosicky and Arteta can continue like they did this past season without getting injured,
* Coquelin can muster some experience,
* Wilshere can return from injury soon and be back to his form pre-injury,

we would have a formidable midfield already. Add M'Vila to that and voila.

well technically its about Wenger lol Wink

i think Frimpong for the inexperienced guy that he is(lets not forget he didn't play for Wolves b/c he got injured) should only play in patched behind an experienced DM that way he will learn and take in everything he learnt and apply it

Ramsey needs to be loaned out man, i feel sorry for him, about Wilshere you never know man he might turn out like Ramsey or he might turn out like pre-injury Wilshere, if i was Wenger i wouldn't rush him because that'd mean he might get another long term injury and also its better for the team if he has to fight for his place rather than be given it on a silver platter when he gets back

M'Vila would just be perfect tho, takes some of the pressure off shoulders Artetas and let him do what he does best which is to create

by Sri Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:02 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:
well technically its about Wenger lol

i think Frimpong for the inexperienced guy that he is(lets not forget he didn't play for Wolves b/c he got injured) should only play in patched behind an experienced DM that way he will learn and take in everything he learnt and apply it

Ramsey needs to be loaned out man, i feel sorry for him, about Wilshere you never know man he might turn out like Ramsey or he might turn out like pre-injury Wilshere, if i was Wenger i wouldn't rush him because that'd mean he might get another long term injury and also its better for the team if he has to fight for his place rather than be given it on a silver platter when he gets back

M'Vila would just be perfect tho, takes some of the pressure off shoulders Artetas and let him do what he does best which is to create

I would prefer M'Vila-Arteta-Rosicky actually.. (in case you are suggesting moving Arteta higher up).. Arteta has been brilliant in a Makelele type role (that requires experience, something Arteta has no dearth of)..

However, fact remains that injuries or not, Frimpong/Ramsey/M'Vila/Coquelin/Wilshere - all are young and/or inexperienced relatively.. Hence the need for Song, Rosicky and Arteta to guide them the next few years..

I think Ramsey will have a much better season ahead actually - as long as he doesn't get bogged down with more expectations.. If Jack returns, it will ease a lot of the pressure on the midfield personnel.. But no young player should be playing more than 40 games a season - thats where we mucked up with Cesc once and then with Jack.. Hopefully, next season AW (see what I did there? Kept it on topic, technically Razz

) will have enough reliable depth in the midfield..

(Btw, for lols, I have to say this. We have Diaby too Very Happy

)

by halamadrid2 Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:14 pm

srigooner wrote:
I would prefer M'Vila-Arteta-Rosicky actually.. (in case you are suggesting moving Arteta higher up).. Arteta has been brilliant in a Makelele type role (that requires experience, something Arteta has no dearth of)..

However, fact remains that injuries or not, Frimpong/Ramsey/M'Vila/Coquelin/Wilshere - all are young and/or inexperienced relatively.. Hence the need for Song, Rosicky and Arteta to guide them the next few years..

I think Ramsey will have a much better season ahead actually - as long as he doesn't get bogged down with more expectations.. If Jack returns, it will ease a lot of the pressure on the midfield personnel.. But no young player should be playing more than 40 games a season - thats where we mucked up with Cesc once and then with Jack.. Hopefully, next season AW (see what I did there? Kept it on topic, technically ) will have enough reliable depth in the midfield..

(Btw, for lols, I have to say this. We have Diaby too )

i was thinking of a 4-2-3-1 with M'Vila the furthest down whith Arteta as a CM, enough with the BS 4-3-3 that leaves your defence exposed, also the fact that you have good wingers means you have to exploit that rather than try your luck through the middle which half the times doesn't work because you become a bit like a manual book that people read while walking around

i don't think there is anything Song can teach anyone bar some fantastic passes/crosses that he makes lol, and M'Vila was great for Rennes i am sure he will do alot better with better players around him

yh i hate how coaches play their players like every time even if they don't need to Mou always does that and it pisses me off one day it will backfire tho lol

And how can i forget Diaby the forgotten hero, Wenger( Laughing

) must have forgotten that he played for you for a moment that he thought he was a new player when he arrived in training following recovery from an injury

by DuringTheWar Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:18 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:
Diego Armando Maradona wrote:
the ideology behind that is to prevent there being any big ego prima donnas in the dressing room. In theory everyone being paid equal should be good for the team spirit/ethos, but it just doesnt work. Money talks loudest in football now and to get/keep the best players you have to pay them silly money, with the manchester city's of this world circling like vultures That means the bulk of the squad has to get paid less to afford it, you can see how this could create problems and disharmony in the squad? some clubs can keep all their players happy with their endless riches but arsenal cant

I think the whole Arsenal squad know who the best one is in that team and wouldn't complain one bit, i mean if guys like Bentnose and i don't know Arshavin gets alot it doesn't really reflect good on their team, it would only drive more mediocre players to want better wages in the team

i still think you have to start with a low wage and then progressively increase it every 4 years based on appearances/performances etc

Kind of like DiMaria he got 1.5 mill when he started and improved his contract to 3 mill after 2 seasons based on his performances, you don't start with a 5 mill contract for an unknown mediocre player, you do it later to make them stay if somebody wants them

I agree. Im hearing something funny now, arsenal want to sell denilson and squillaci, but cant because they dont want to terminate their fat contracts that no one else will pay them. Looks like arsenal may have to continue paying squillaci 50k a week :facepalm:

by halamadrid2 Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:19 pm

Diego Armando Maradona wrote:I agree. Im hearing something funny now, arsenal want to sell denilson and squillaci, but cant because they dont want to terminate their fat contracts that no one else will pay them. Looks like arsenal may have to continue paying squillaci 50k a week

ROFL, dat dilemma

by Eivindo Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:22 pm

I hope for Juves sake they dont buy this old overrated player with weak mentality.

by Sri Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:22 pm

We have to pay Sevilla 250k pounds because squid played 9 minutes this sesason and we qualified for CL (some stupid clause when we signed him).. What was Wenger ( Very Happy

) thinking!! :facepalm:

Also have to pay for Per, but that I don't mind..

by Sri Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:23 pm

Eivindo wrote:I hope for Juves sake they dont buy this old overrated player with weak mentality.

Squillacci, Denilson or Diaby? Razz

by 7amood11 Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:34 pm

REWB wrote:
7amood11 wrote:
REWB wrote:
7amood11 wrote:
REWB wrote:
lool if juve can win a trophy after being the 7th best team in the league the year before, than arsenal can do it after being the 3rd best team. juve winning the league just looks bad on seria A tbh, no offence.

That is just terrible logic.

the last sentence was just a dig at juve fans, but the first part is true. if juve can win their league after being 7th than who's to say arsenal cant?

That's because we underwent a complete turnaround, it didn't happen by itself. We bought 11 new players (half of them became regular starters), and we sold off 12 players. We changed half of the squad, basically. And we brought in a new coach who brought in new tactics and a champion mentality (it's NOT a myth).

If Arsenal barely change anything then I doubt they could go for the PL title. Juve actually changed many things and had a 180 degree turn to go and win the title. Arsenal should do something a bit similar.

we are changing things this summer as i have pointed out. define what is champions mentality? what is it? are you telling me you have to have it to win things (which is what nick is claiming)? and tell me how arsenal can acquire it?

Just look at Juve 10/11 and Juve 11/12. In 10/11 every time we would go a goal up, the opposition would always get an equalizer, and after that, we wouldn't be able to get back in the game at all. In 11/12, we finished the season completely unbeaten, and during the season we had staged plenty of great comebacks such as the 3-3 vs Napoli, the 2-2 vs Milan, The 2-1 vs Inter, the 1-1 vs Roma...etc. If we didn't have a winning mentality we'd never have gotten a draw/win from any of those games.

Basically I think having a winning mentality is to go into every game with high confidence and to go for the win even when all seems to be lost.

by kiranr Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:35 pm

BhritanniaBhlue wrote:Also RVP is almost 30 right? Makes sense that he would leave the goat farm of EPL for the retirement community of Serie A

You mean Donkey farm :coffee:

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