Re: "There is no reason why a top player, a big champion would want a move to Serie A ''-Wenger

by halamadrid2 Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:51 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:Conte bought players and build that mentality, exactly what Wenger is trying to do. And it's not like Wenger never turned a shit team to a champion team.

Arsenal weren't a broken team that had to climb themselves up from division two because of a mafia president

Wenger has been manager for Arsenal for about 2 or so decades and has only had one good stint(the invincible), look at what Fergie is doing with a bunch of Andersons/Parks.... yes he wins the league multiple times... sorry the day Wenger can do that is the day people would want to stay in your club

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:51 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:So Serie A is good enough for Totti, Ibra, Maicon, TS, Lucio, Cambiasso, Sneijder, Pirlo, Chiellini, Buffon, Julio Cesar, Vidal, Cassano, Cavani, Maggio, De Rossi, Stekelenburg, Hernanes etc etc

But it's not good enough for RVP aka big champion who has never won a single trophy since becoming a first team player....

Righto

BTW i seem to remember Wenger being similar butthurt last year when the Cesc rumours went in to overdrive and took it upon himself to question the quality of La Liga and why any top player would go there....

Bye Bye RVP

He didn't say "big champion" according to the interview on Corriere Dello Sport.

Rest of the post still stands :coffee:

Also REWB Juve have bought Isla, Asamoah and very close to signing Giovinco and the biggest talent in Italian football in Verratti and they wont stop there.....

Juventus want to win the CL, Arsenal want to finish 4th Laughing

by urbaNRoots Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:53 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

Rest of the post still stands

Also REWB Juve have bought Isla, Asamoah and very close to signing Giovinco and the biggest talent in Italian football in Verratti and they wont stop there.....

Juventus want to win the CL, Arsenal want to finish 4th

Arsenal doesn't want to finish 4th. Why are you trolling?

by urbaNRoots Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:56 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:
urbaNRoots wrote:Conte bought players and build that mentality, exactly what Wenger is trying to do. And it's not like Wenger never turned a shit team to a champion team.

Arsenal weren't a broken team that had to climb themselves up from division two because of a mafia president

Wenger has been manager for Arsenal for about 2 or so decades and has only had one good stint(the invincible), look at what Fergie is doing with a bunch of Andersons/Parks.... yes he wins the league multiple times... sorry the day Wenger can do that is the day people would want to stay in your club

But still Arsenal were a shit team, doesn't anyone remember the "One-nil Arsenal?" jokes? Also Wenger has won other titlles before "The Invincibles" . Wenger can't do what Fergie does.... in fact there aren't many that can do that. I can only hope that soon those days will come hala.

by REWB Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:58 pm

Dante wrote:
REWB wrote:
kiranr wrote:
REWB wrote:

lool if juve can win a trophy after being the 7th best team in the league the year before, than arsenal can do it after being the 3rd best team. juve winning the league just looks bad on seria A tbh, no offence.

No offence, but that is just bad logic. Barcelona winning the treble after coming third in La Liga looks bad on the whole football world according to that logic.

point is, if juve can win the league after being 7th than arsenal can. we have all seen this summer how ambitious arsenal are being, podolski, mvilla,giroud are all very close to coming, what is juve doing? what are they going to do in the CL next season? more ambitious my ASS.

I am the last one to defend that deluded club , but they are ambitious as well.

They already have signed Asamoah , Isla and Giovinco . And their best signing hasn't yet come. You can call them whatever you want and i will agree lol , but they are ambitious , that's without a doubt .

yes but this summer has shown that juve are not MORE ambition than arsenal, we are both trying to buy players to better ourselves. lets see how well juve do in the league when they actually have CL football to worry about. moreover, juve are lucky to be in the Seria A atm, milan seem to be struggling financially and i dont know whats going on with inter. they have much less competition than arsenal. Seria A is simply not in a good state atm, you know it yourself.

by Sri Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:59 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:
urbaNRoots wrote:Conte bought players and build that mentality, exactly what Wenger is trying to do. And it's not like Wenger never turned a shit team to a champion team.

Arsenal weren't a broken team that had to climb themselves up from division two because of a mafia president

Wenger has been manager for Arsenal for about 2 or so decades and has only had one good stint(the invincible), look at what Fergie is doing with a bunch of Andersons/Parks.... yes he wins the league multiple times... sorry the day Wenger can do that is the day people would want to stay in your club

First part, I agree.

Second part - I don't. Can't compare SAF and AW over the last few years. SAF didn't have to deal with the debts incurred by building a new stadium, nor did he have problems with cash after that 80 million Christiano fetched him. And ManUtd commercial team did a great job ramping up their brand on the basis on the success they had on the pitch. AW helped use the money from the success into a stadium, which is largely debt free now. With FFP kicking in, and Arsenal also starting to ramp up its commercial muscle with new commercial deals, and also renewing those lousy deals we have with our current sponsors in the next few years, Arsenal board have done a good job of securing our financial future. That is why you have the CEO boldly come out and say that financially, we won't be ruined without CL football. And achieving consistent results despite all the player departures and not having the money or muscle to compete with money rich clubs (commercially made money or oil money - no matter), you can not take that away from AW. And nor can the success enjoyed by SAF be compared with AW, not when they had different sets of handicaps to deal with. Apples and Oranges.

by spanky Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:59 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:
REWB wrote:point is, if juve can win the league after being 7th than arsenal can. we have all seen this summer how ambitious arsenal are being, podolski, mvilla,giroud are all very close to coming, what is juve doing? what are they going to do in the CL next season? more ambitious my ASS.

tbh all these players that you bought have been shocking this EC, hope they dont turn up like that for you because you will be in trouble

Juve don't need many players at all, they only need a forward and they are set, they got to the final of their cup won the league by being unbeaten for the whole season... i am sure they will go very far in CL when they play there next season

and according to REWB it will be a disgrace to the CL if they do :facepalm:

by REWB Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:05 pm

spanky489 wrote:
halamadrid2 wrote:
REWB wrote:point is, if juve can win the league after being 7th than arsenal can. we have all seen this summer how ambitious arsenal are being, podolski, mvilla,giroud are all very close to coming, what is juve doing? what are they going to do in the CL next season? more ambitious my ASS.

tbh all these players that you bought have been shocking this EC, hope they dont turn up like that for you because you will be in trouble

Juve don't need many players at all, they only need a forward and they are set, they got to the final of their cup won the league by being unbeaten for the whole season... i am sure they will go very far in CL when they play there next season

and according to REWB it will be a disgrace to the CL if they do

when did i say it will be a disgrace?

by Mr Nick09 Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:05 pm

Buying players is a step, bringing that champions mentality is harder if you ask me. Man Utd has looked more competitive than Arsenal with a similar squad, it's all mental work. SAF true quality is that he brings it every year, Wenger doesnt. There is no way we can give him the benefit of the doubt in this context, Arsenal seasons have gone and looked alike year after year.

by REWB Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:06 pm

if arsenal keep rvp we will win something next season, who wants to bet with me? Very Happy

by halamadrid2 Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:07 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:
But still Arsenal were a shit team, doesn't anyone remember the "One-nil Arsenal?" jokes? Also Wenger has won other titles other before "The Invincibles" . Wenger can't do what Fergie does.... in fact there aren't many that can do that. I can only hope that soon those days will come hala.

well i can remember the 1-0 Man U jokes as well, thats how you win trophies, dont get me wrong, in fact this season Arsenal played a lot more determined than they did seasons ago, do you think they would have closed the 10 points gap 2 seasons ago??? no i dont think so

Yep Fergie is in his own league when it comes to that, but Wenger has been in the business for nearly as long but not even close to Fergies achievements, they day you actually spent money on proper players you went the season unbeaten, maybe its just Wenger who is stubborn that he thinks a bunch of 20 yos can win you trophies when they obviously can't

by Jack Daniels Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:07 pm

This is why i always wanted an England - Italy quarters in the EUROs

Shame.. lol

by 7amood11 Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:11 pm

REWB wrote:
lool if juve can win a trophy after being the 7th best team in the league the year before, than arsenal can do it after being the 3rd best team. juve winning the league just looks bad on seria A tbh, no offence.

That is just terrible logic.

by REWB Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:12 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:Buying players is a step, bringing that champions mentality is harder if you ask me. Man Utd has looked more competitive than Arsenal with a similar squad, it's all mental work. SAF true quality is that he brings it every year, Wenger doesnt. There is no way we can give him the benefit of the doubt in this context, Arsenal seasons have gone and looked alike year after year.

champion mentality is a COMPLETE MYTH, the reason why we didnt win anything these past season was because we didnt have a good enough squad SIMPLE, nothing more to it. with good players and a good team we will win things, its simple. in the past 7 years we have ALWAYS had glaring holes in out team that all the fans recognised, yet were not dealt with. at the start of every season we knew that the weaknesses of our squad would be exposed. and the same thing will happen this season if we dont address those weaknesses. however, as we have seen it looks like this summer is different.

by REWB Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:13 pm

7amood11 wrote:
REWB wrote:
lool if juve can win a trophy after being the 7th best team in the league the year before, than arsenal can do it after being the 3rd best team. juve winning the league just looks bad on seria A tbh, no offence.

That is just terrible logic.

the last sentence was just a dig at juve fans, but the first part is true. if juve can win their league after being 7th than who's to say arsenal cant?

by Swanhends Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:13 pm

Wenger is not correct, there are some reasons someone like RVP would want to move to Serie A

If he moves to Juve he will easily win the Scudetto, and he won't even have to work that hard for it, but he'll still be able to play in the Champs League, so its the best of both worlds in terms of easiness (league) while still being on the highest stage (CL)

by Mr Nick09 Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:13 pm

REWB wrote:
Mr Nick09 wrote:Buying players is a step, bringing that champions mentality is harder if you ask me. Man Utd has looked more competitive than Arsenal with a similar squad, it's all mental work. SAF true quality is that he brings it every year, Wenger doesnt. There is no way we can give him the benefit of the doubt in this context, Arsenal seasons have gone and looked alike year after year.

champion mentality is a COMPLETE MYTH, the reason why we didnt win anything these past season was because we didnt have a good enough squad SIMPLE, nothing more to it. with good players and a good team we will win things, its simple. in the past 7 years we have ALWAYS had glaring holes in out team that all the fans recognised, yet were not dealt with. at the start of every season we knew that the weaknesses of our squad would be exposed. and the same thing will happen this season if we dont address those weaknesses. however, as we have seen it looks like this summer is different.

Keep telling that yourself, you wont win anything again.

by Sri Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:16 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:
urbaNRoots wrote:
But still Arsenal were a shit team, doesn't anyone remember the "One-nil Arsenal?" jokes? Also Wenger has won other titles other before "The Invincibles" . Wenger can't do what Fergie does.... in fact there aren't many that can do that. I can only hope that soon those days will come hala.

well i can remember the 1-0 Man U jokes as well, thats how you win trophies, dont get me wrong, in fact this season Arsenal played a lot more determined than they did seasons ago, do you think they would have closed the 10 points gap 2 seasons ago??? no i dont think so

Yep Fergie is in his own league when it comes to that, but Wenger has been in the business for nearly as long but not even close to Fergies achievements, they day you actually spent money on proper players you went the season unbeaten, maybe its just Wenger who is stubborn that he thinks a bunch of 20 yos can win you trophies when they obviously can't

We didn't have the transfers budgets nor the wage structure for the players at the peaks I guess. However, we did muck it up with those fat wages for underperformers..

Btw, about your point on the winning mentality, you can read the opening post of the thread titles 'I Will Wait..' in Arsenal section (if you want to, ofcourse).. To an extent I agree with you, but the blame doesn't entirely fall on AW for that..

by urbaNRoots Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:16 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:Buying players is a step, bringing that champions mentality is harder if you ask me. Man Utd has looked more competitive than Arsenal with a similar squad, it's all mental work. SAF true quality is that he brings it every year, Wenger doesnt. There is no way we can give him the benefit of the doubt in this context, Arsenal seasons have gone and looked alike year after year.

It looks a bit different this year though, Arsenal looks like are going to spend some money this summer (hopefully) and get some fresh blood in the team. With hopefully van Persie not getting sold + some new signings, Arsenal is capable of winning some glory next year. But all this would crush if van Persie gets sold anyway.

Wenger has done it before, the "mentality" work - he made a bunch of flops (Henry, Bergkamp, Vieira) champions, and I'm sure he can do it again - but not without spending something and selling your captain every year.

by REWB Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:16 pm

Jack Daniels wrote:This is why i always wanted an England - Italy quarters in the EUROs

Shame.. lol

loool what has that got to do with everything? i dont care what england do, we all know english players are overrated, doesn't mean the epl is. the epl is dominated by foreigners, and everyone knows it.

by halamadrid2 Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:17 pm

srigooner wrote:Second part - I don't. Can't compare SAF and AW over the last few years. SAF didn't have to deal with the debts incurred by building a new stadium, nor did he have problems with cash after that 80 million Christiano fetched him.

Instead of Stadium debt, they have gone into debt for undisclosed reasons, if i was Fergie i would screw the owner why does he keep winning and they keep wasting the money on private holidays and personal stuff???

And ManUtd commercial team did a great job ramping up their brand on the basis on the success they had on the pitch. AW helped use the money from the success into a stadium, which is largely debt free now.

Arsenal if i am not mistaken charge the most to the fans so i mean alot of money must have come that way, not to mention the astronomical wages that Arsenal give out compared to Man U

With FFP kicking in, and Arsenal also starting to ramp up its commercial muscle with new commercial deals, and also renewing those lousy deals we have with our current sponsors in the next few years, Arsenal board have done a good job of securing our financial future. That is why you have the CEO boldly come out and say that financially, we won't be ruined without CL football.

What you are doing there is giving me hypothetical outcomes that we don't know whether might be right or wrong, and sponsors?? haven't you got flyemirates already, teams like Bayern have the same and they are financially stable, if you keep being generous with the wages i am afraid you will never get out of the debt

And achieving consistent results despite all the player departures and not having the money or muscle to compete with money rich clubs (commercially made money or oil money - no matter), you can not take that away from AW. And nor can the success enjoyed by SAF be compared with AW, not when they had different sets of handicaps to deal with. Apples and Oranges.

definitely not apples and oranges in fact the Arsenal board>>>>>>Man U's, its just that Man U fans are more pressuring in what they want while Arsenal fans seems to like having a good season as opposed to winning a title that they accept everything the board does without a noise

by halamadrid2 Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:18 pm

Jack Daniels wrote:This is why i always wanted an England - Italy quarters in the EUROs

Shame.. lol

well you got your wishes lol, and most of the English players playing atm are rubbish, wouldn't judge it based on the game

by REWB Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:19 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:
REWB wrote:
Mr Nick09 wrote:Buying players is a step, bringing that champions mentality is harder if you ask me. Man Utd has looked more competitive than Arsenal with a similar squad, it's all mental work. SAF true quality is that he brings it every year, Wenger doesnt. There is no way we can give him the benefit of the doubt in this context, Arsenal seasons have gone and looked alike year after year.

champion mentality is a COMPLETE MYTH, the reason why we didnt win anything these past season was because we didnt have a good enough squad SIMPLE, nothing more to it. with good players and a good team we will win things, its simple. in the past 7 years we have ALWAYS had glaring holes in out team that all the fans recognised, yet were not dealt with. at the start of every season we knew that the weaknesses of our squad would be exposed. and the same thing will happen this season if we dont address those weaknesses. however, as we have seen it looks like this summer is different.

Keep telling that yourself, you wont win anything again.

lool look at you the cystal ball man, lool at arsenal not winner anything again...OKAYYY. tell me what the next lottery numbers are? so by your logic, the ONLY players that can win things are players that have won thing before? :facepalm:

by 7amood11 Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:21 pm

REWB wrote:
7amood11 wrote:
REWB wrote:
lool if juve can win a trophy after being the 7th best team in the league the year before, than arsenal can do it after being the 3rd best team. juve winning the league just looks bad on seria A tbh, no offence.

That is just terrible logic.

the last sentence was just a dig at juve fans, but the first part is true. if juve can win their league after being 7th than who's to say arsenal cant?

That's because we underwent a complete turnaround, it didn't happen by itself. We bought 11 new players (half of them became regular starters), and we sold off 12 players. We changed half of the squad, basically. And we brought in a new coach who brought in new tactics and a champion mentality (it's NOT a myth).

If Arsenal barely change anything then I doubt they could go for the PL title. Juve actually changed many things and had a 180 degree turn to go and win the title. Arsenal should do something a bit similar.

by Mr Nick09 Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:21 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:
Mr Nick09 wrote:Buying players is a step, bringing that champions mentality is harder if you ask me. Man Utd has looked more competitive than Arsenal with a similar squad, it's all mental work. SAF true quality is that he brings it every year, Wenger doesnt. There is no way we can give him the benefit of the doubt in this context, Arsenal seasons have gone and looked alike year after year.

It looks a bit different this year though, Arsenal looks like are going to spend some money this summer (hopefully) and get some fresh blood in the team. With hopefully van Persie not getting sold + some new signings, Arsenal is capable of winning some glory next year. But all this would crush if van Persie gets sold anyway.

Wenger has done it before, the "mentality" work - he made a bunch of flops (Henry, Bergkamp, Vieira) champions, and I'm sure he can do it again - but not without spending something and selling your captain every year.

Yeah he did it when he arrived at the club, he was on a fantastic run for a while, but it has stagnated since, for various reasons you will say. It's much harder to jump back into the winning fray after such a long period i think, that's why i am emitting doubt, it's the most important thing.

by urbaNRoots Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:25 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:
urbaNRoots wrote:
But still Arsenal were a shit team, doesn't anyone remember the "One-nil Arsenal?" jokes? Also Wenger has won other titles other before "The Invincibles" . Wenger can't do what Fergie does.... in fact there aren't many that can do that. I can only hope that soon those days will come hala.

well i can remember the 1-0 Man U jokes as well, thats how you win trophies, dont get me wrong, in fact this season Arsenal played a lot more determined than they did seasons ago, do you think they would have closed the 10 points gap 2 seasons ago??? no i dont think so

Yep Fergie is in his own league when it comes to that, but Wenger has been in the business for nearly as long but not even close to Fergies achievements, they day you actually spent money on proper players you went the season unbeaten, maybe its just Wenger who is stubborn that he thinks a bunch of 20 yos can win you trophies when they obviously can't

I agree with you on spending, it's impossible really. But it's not that Wenger doesn't want to spend, it's the situation at the club which Sri explained it so well. But money and ambition wise, I don't remember the last summer when Arsenal was so close on signing some good players so early.

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