Re: The Official Real Madrid 23 - 24 Matchday Thread

[Turok_TTZ]

Our season is now complete. The league title and the coveted 15th cl triumph. All thanks to the brilliant mind of Don Carlo.

The future? Onwards to the 16th. I'm happy for our men. They have proven themselves to be champions without doubt.

Hopefully we can defend that cl championship next year.

Edit: goodbye Toni. Thank you for your years of service to this great club of ours. May your days be blessed as today.

[titosantill]

right now i don't care who's leaving or staying. 15 European titles is crazy. And nobody can say we won most of them when tv was black and white as the haters used to do. At some point we were struggling so hard to win la decima, we couldn't get past the 9th. And now we've won 9 since 1998. Amazing season with barely any hiccups or arguments on this thread.

[halamadrid2]

I don't think we've ever played a first half as bad as this one in the CL for a long while

We were absolutely lethargic, second best to pretty much every ball and in every duel

Much better second half. The moment the referee blew the HT whistle I knew we'd win. Dortmund needed to score from their chances because our performance could only get better. I mean we were pretty much at rock bottom in the first half.

[The Madrid One]

My favorite season of all time. My favorite squad of all time. And aside from La Decima, my favorite CL win of them all.

In my eyes, with this 15th CL, Real Madrid has completed football. Collected all of the infinity stones, snapped the universe into infinite white.  

And on to the 16th.

Coronated officially by FIFA as the best club of the 20th Century back in 2000, we are well on our way to the title of the 21st Century.

We are now facing a summer where we are 15 time European Champions + have a extraordinary new stadium + signing Mbappe and continuously completing a squad that could very well be the one that goes on to win the 20th.

In my 14 years of fandom now my favorite 11 would be

Courtois
Carvajal Rudiger Ramos Prime Coentrao
Valverde Modric Alonso Vini Jr.
Benzema Ronaldo

Congrats y'all.

[Turok_TTZ]

My favorite season of all time. My favorite squad of all time. And aside from La Decima, my favorite CL win of them all.

In my eyes, with this 15th CL, Real Madrid has completed football. Collected all of the infinity stones, snapped the universe into infinite white.  

And on to the 16th.

Coronated officially by FIFA as the best club of the 20th Century back in 2000, we are well on our way to the title of the 21st Century.

We are now facing a summer where we are 15 time European Champions + have a extraordinary new stadium + signing Mbappe and continuously completing a squad that could very well be the one that goes on to win the 20th.

In my 14 years of fandom now my favorite 11 would be

Courtois
Carvajal Rudiger Ramos Prime Coentrao
Valverde Modric Alonso Vini Jr.
Benzema Ronaldo

Congrats y'all.

Alonso over Kroos? You're drunk TMO.

But I guess it's fine. But why is it with favorite 11s, do I always see imbalances? Or pick a 5s? Guess I'm just a nitpicker.

[Myesyats]

But I guess it's fine. But why is it with favorite 11s, do I always see imbalances? Or pick a 5s? Guess I'm just a nitpicker.

Sometimes your favorite player is not necessarily the best player

[futbol_bill]

Best 11 is always controversal, everyone has their favorites.

For examle I would chose
Di Stefano over Benzema
Gento or Puskas over Vini
Hierro over Rudiger
Roberto Carlos over Coentrao or Marcelo
Casillas over Courtois
not sure about Valverde, as great as he has been. Zidane should be included in the midfielders, plus guys like Michel, Figo and Makelele warrent consideration.

There is no correct list. Bottom line there are so many outstanding players that have performed exceptionally well it is a personal selection plus it also depends on how long you have been following the team.

[The Madrid One]

Alonso over Kroos? You're drunk TMO.

But I guess it's fine. But why is it with favorite 11s, do I always see imbalances? Or pick a 5s? Guess I'm just a nitpicker.

I aimed to make a balanced 11 of my favorite 11 Madrid players that have been active since I started watching.

I think my 11 is pretty balanced actually.

Personal player affinity/quality preferences that we all have aside:

- I think Courtois is a better, more complete keeper than Casillas and I also like him more.

- I think Rudiger is generally in the same quality range as a defender as Pepe or Militao but he's arguably a bigger goal threat than Pepe, definitely a healthier and more likable personality imo, a cooler head, and better on the ball and with his passing. Probably the best CB in the world this year.  

- Marcelo was a more talented player and attacker than Prime Coentrao and Mendy a better defender, but in that run of games that Coentrao had against Bayern, Dortmund, Barcelona, and Atletico in 2014 he absolutely won my heart forever and his display in attack and defense as a totality was the most balanced between him, Marcelo, and Mendy imo. As a totality he was an elite LB at his best and not too disimilar profile wise to Carvajal. Got derailed by injuries and mental health problems as far as im concerned.

- I probably have a softer spot for Kroos than Alonso but if I do it's not by so much, even though Kroos had a very idiosyncratic internal tempo pacemaker and probably better press resistance than Alonso, Alonso was a bit more mobile and a better defender and leader in defense. Provides more balance, could more reliably play double pivot and could actually play as a DM. And I'd like to look at Alonso's pass percentage numbers and pass maps but in terms of type of pass his long passes had more variety potential in them than Kroos, I think.

- Valverde is my favorite player ever with Modric, but I could also switch him with Di Maria on the right hand side. Bale's overrated imo, clutch and circumstantial bursts of goal genius in famous finals aside.

- Vinicius can be plenty functional defensively.

- Only other change I could make would be one of Karim or Ronaldo (I never was really a Ronaldo fan , at best I had a distant respect) for another midfielder so that my 11 could be like our 11 of this year, something that could switch from 4231, 4222, or 433 at will without any changes and based on the need of the game. That midfielder would be Bellingham, who is already one of my favorite players and who even in his first season has left complete player performances, my favorite of which was probably his performance against Barcelona at home in the league.

[Turok_TTZ]

But I guess it's fine. But why is it with favorite 11s, do I always see imbalances? Or pick a 5s? Guess I'm just a nitpicker.

Sometimes your favorite player is not necessarily the best player

not necessarily. The best 11s I often see fail to include dms or even fullbacks. I mean sure you're free to put Pirlo, Zidane, 'dinho and Iniesta as your midfield. But who the hells gonna defend or be the anchor in front of defense from that 4? It's like florentino picking nothing but attackers in that one interview. Total imbalance. Got to take one out and put one of gattuso, casemiro, or makelele in there. Or kante at least. Surely I'm not being unreasonable no?

@TMO Buddy your trolling gotta be more subtle than that.

I probably have a softer spot for Kroos than Alonso but if I do it's not by so much, even though Kroos had a very idiosyncratic internal tempo pacemaker and probably better press resistance than Alonso, Alonso was a bit more mobile and a better defender and leader in defense. Provides more balance, could more reliably play double pivot and could actually play as a DM. And I'd like to look at Alonso's pass percentage numbers and pass maps but in terms of type of pass his long passes had more variety potential in them than Kroos, I think.

The bolded here was my biggest gripe and argument against Alonso when he was playing for us.
I would even argue that Alonso was the one of bigger reasons why we didn't win cl under Mourinho precisely because of his incapability of the bolded.

Why do you think Carlo moved di maria to cm? Carlo recognized Alonso defensive deficiencies and so he put di maria's workrate to better use in order to make up for Alonso being so shit defensively. I cannot count how many big games Alonso cost us because of his utter lack mobility, lack of defensive positional sense, and his inability to tackle well. Something that he admitted in an interview no less. And my response to that interview is still the same as it was back then: admitting not training to tackle is diabolical. Because depending how you tackle can decide a clean dispossession of an opponent or a red card. And I was never comfortable whenever he tries to tackle.

To this day I'll never understand why we tried 4231 back then under Mourinho when we didn't have the mids for it. Alonso had the passing and vision but lacked everything else. Lass had mobility but not the intelligence or technique at times. Or Khedira who had the intelligence but not the mobility or technique as well. A double pivot made in hell. Double pivots with one of camavinga/tchouameni and valverde would absolutely run rings around Alonso and lass/Khedira. No amount of intelligence will matter if the physical requirements are not up to the standard that the double pivot requires.

I know what some would say then how does Kroos and modric get away with it? The answer is easy: because they both have better defensive sense than Alonso and both in their prime and even now are more mobile than Alonso. Not just top speed or acceleration. What hurt Alonso the most was his lack of agility. Something mehssi and Insert_agile_attacker_here took complete advantage of. Khedira tried his best but agility was also something that hurt him. Which was why I preferred lass to him every time.

Alonso cannot play dm or be in a double pivot. His best shot is in a 3 man midfield where his physical responsibilities is compensated or the style is geared towards tiki taka so that his defensive responsibilities is reduced to a minimum. No need to defend well when your team holds the ball. Just position accordingly.

Spain and Real Madrid made Alonso look better than he actually is. But you managed to get me to bite TMO so here's your (you) and sod off with that nonsense. Alonso is a great player but not for the reasons you say.

[Thimmy]

Inb4 Mystats complains about the penalties we’re getting

[halamadrid2]

We are looking alot like shit on a stick right now. Saving grace is that's how we looked early last season too. This time we are winning with penalties as opposed to last second goals we used to score last season

[Pedram]

Inb4 Mystats complains about the penalties we’re getting

The law of the game doesn't care if the ball is about to blow your head off, you are not allowed to cover your face.

Kinda feel for that guy though, must suck to give out a penalty like that.

[Clutch]

The last one was a but iffy but the first one is for sure a penalty

[Cyborg]

Both legitimate penalties. Second one, stood on his foot.

It's a win. But the team isn't playing well.

The midfield has no control and it's causing all kinds of panic at the back.

[titosantill]

I agree the team is not playing well. We are lacking ideas; its still relatively early but I think the assumption is that the front 3 will do the creating. Our midfield needs to step up and think outside the box. Instead of just basic side to side plays.

[futbol_bill]

I agree the team is not playing well. We are lacking ideas; its still relatively early but I think the assumption is that the front 3 will do the creating. Our midfield needs to step up and think outside the box. Instead of just basic side to side plays.

Hopefully, that will improve once we have the injured midfielders return. All are injured except for the three that played yesterday. The other issue is Mbappe and Vinicius need to learn to play together.

[Cyborg]

The team i

I agree the team is not playing well. We are lacking ideas; its still relatively early but I think the assumption is that the front 3 will do the creating. Our midfield needs to step up and think outside the box. Instead of just basic side to side plays.

Any team depending soley on their forwards to create, won't.

I don't like the 442 diamond. But it might be the only solution.

Guler as a 10, Vini and Mbappe up top.

Bellingham Tchouameni Valverde balancing midfield.

[futbol_bill]

I agree, however I prefer Camavinga over Tchouameni

[Clutch]

I know tchoumeni has had a rough start to the season but he was great last season, let's not get carried away

[The Madrid One]

Changes have to be made and will be made.

1. I believe Carlo himself said yesterday that the last 5 weeks have seen the team still in preseason mode, and I understand that to be meant not just on a physical level but also on a tactical and emotional/activation level as well.

2. With Carlo I don't believe we've ever been consistent when it comes to our pressing, for example, but at our best we were at least functional when it came to our tactical equilibrium. At the start of this season not only have we had injuries but we've also lost Kroos at the center of the midfield as well as Bellingham and Valverde at LM and RM respectively. Those are HUGE losses down the flanks that contribute to structural problems in defense, attack, transition, and tactical spacing on the field. Last few weeks we've had to see disgusting things like a nearly 40 year old Modric having to defend the left flank and Vinicius barely helping with tracking back or intensity and then Rodrygo being haphazard with his positional discipline in both offense and defense. At our best this season I would think we could see something like:

Courtois
Carvajal Militao Rudiger Mendy
Valverde Camavinga Tchouameni Bellingham
Mbappe Vinicius

With movement between Valverde, Camavinga, Rodrygo, and Brahim in the right wing/right midfield section of the team, whether we play 4222, 4231, or 433 (there's always plenty of mobility/interchanging in game) the 4222 probably being most likely to work well because of the increased positional freedom it would allow both Mbappe and Vinicius in comparison to what comes to mind with a 4231 and a 433 and because it would also allow for more structure in offense and defense. In big games or tight games, the lack of consistent intensity from Vinicius and Mbappe would affect us with our pressing and defensive structure more than you might think.

If anything we should have gone for one more good deep midfield back up signing to replace Ceballos, which is too much of a mid table ACM role type of player.

I don't know about Barca, haven't been watching them but I'd also understand if they're more hungry and have a bigger fire lit in them than we do as a collective at the moment, plus more inform players, less injuries, and a more tactical on point manager in some ways.

We can't afford to lose more league points and if Rodrygo is to have any future he better be comfortable with being functionally elite as possible down the fucking right side.

Edit: Rodrygo's performance today against Stuttgart is exactly what the doctor ordered.

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