How much will Real and Barca spend this summer?

Zealous wrote:

fatman123 wrote:

Zealous wrote:Pure DM's don't exist any more. It's not 1999.

Hello

You're just proving my point. Players like Makalele would be useless nowadays.

Like How Gustavo, Van Bommel and Tymo are useless.

Madrid need a destroyer like this guys, someone who frustrates the midfield

They have Khedira, he does all that, usually without getting booked, and he probably even runs more. And if Khedira doesn't do that it's not because he can't, it's because of tactics. Khedira fills exactly that role with the NT whenever Schweinsteiger doesn't get back in time, and it works well.

Van Bommel is technical as hell, and Gustavo is decent enough with the ball at his feet.

Tymo is the classic DM type, but he's smart enough not to be that headless.

He'll probably be deployed as a CB, anyways.

yeah, you cant play a pure DM with Alonso, it's not going to be effective.

Mr Nick09 wrote:yeah, you cant play a pure DM with Alonso, it's not going to be effective.

Mascherano-Alonso? It worked pretty well, IMO, although I conceed Mascherano ain't really a "pure DM".

Sushi Master wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:yeah, you cant play a pure DM with Alonso, it's not going to be effective.

Mascherano-Alonso? It worked pretty well, IMO, although I conceed Mascherano ain't really a "pure DM".

that was long ago, Alonso has considerably slowed down since then. If we play him with a pure DM with no technical skills in the setup we are in atm, it's going to be bloody awful.

Madrid's problem is'nt quality...... it's the mere fact Alonso-Khedira is usually up against 3 in midfield and i dont care how good you are if you are outnumbered you will be bested 9/10 times in midfield.......

And before anyone mentions Ozil, he's much more of a forward than a midfielder so Alonso and Khedira are always out numbered.

Why do you think Kroos was always free? its not quality thats the problem its system and tactics.

Luckily Madrid have so much firepower going forward they dont need to worry about this very often.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Madrid's problem is'nt quality...... it's the mere fact Alonso-Khedira is usually up against 3 in midfield and i dont care how good you are if you are outnumbered you will be bested 9/10 times in midfield.......

And before anyone mentions Ozil, he's much more of a forward than a midfielder so Alonso and Khedira are always out numbered.

Why do you think Kroos was always free? its not quality thats the problem its system and tactics.

Luckily Madrid have so much firepower going forward they dont need to worry about this very often.

It's exactly as you describe. Thing is, Mourinho wants Ozil to play far up the pitch to launch fast attacks and make the final pass. If you pull down Ozil to stay closer to the midfield, you have to pull down your attackers as well, and build up your attack with less speed. Mourinho is not into that, and he has clearly shown that he doesnt care about the team being split in 2 pieces. It doesnt have that Khedira is highly incompetent with the ball in his feet.

The mythical tale of Sahin...

I still feel the only position Madrid needs to improve is Right back and the position Khedira plays, they need to get a destroyer in that position.



Khedira is no destroyer, even Kroos skilled him all day long in both matches, the only way he could've managed to get the ball of Kroos, Gustavo or Schweini is through assists from team-mate or fouling.

I don't know if they need a pure DM, but I am sure they need a destroyer, but Khedira is good and they have a great team, but they can still improve and even become better.

Vidal
Lucas
Gustavo


These Guys can still improve Madrid's midfield and some few more if they have good scout.


as for the right-back, I can't find any right-back in the market that is as good as Arbeloa, only of course if they want Lahm, Ivanovic, Alves who are all definitely out of reach, however they can still try Srna he was a good FB some years back, but I dont know about now.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Madrid's problem is'nt quality...... it's the mere fact Alonso-Khedira is usually up against 3 in midfield and i dont care how good you are if you are outnumbered you will be bested 9/10 times in midfield.......

And before anyone mentions Ozil, he's much more of a forward than a midfielder so Alonso and Khedira are always out numbered.

Why do you think Kroos was always free? its not quality thats the problem its system and tactics.

Luckily Madrid have so much firepower going forward they dont need to worry about this very often.

Well...just to point one thing out, Kroos is always free, it wasn't just the Madrid match, he's always available to pass to.

Mr Nick09 wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Madrid's problem is'nt quality...... it's the mere fact Alonso-Khedira is usually up against 3 in midfield and i dont care how good you are if you are outnumbered you will be bested 9/10 times in midfield.......

And before anyone mentions Ozil, he's much more of a forward than a midfielder so Alonso and Khedira are always out numbered.

Why do you think Kroos was always free? its not quality thats the problem its system and tactics.

Luckily Madrid have so much firepower going forward they dont need to worry about this very often.

It's exactly as you describe. Thing is, Mourinho wants Ozil to play far up the pitch to launch fast attacks and make the final pass. If you pull down Ozil to stay closer to the midfield, you have to pull down your attackers as well, and build up your attack with less speed. Mourinho is not into that, and he has clearly shown that he doesnt care about the team being split in 2 pieces. It doesnt have that Khedira is highly incompetent with the ball in his feet.

Milan solved this very problem by using Boateng as a number 10. Not in any way saying Boateng is better than Ozil nor should you change, but its just an intresting point to me.

Boateng has major athletic ability, so he helps defensively, never allowing Milan to be outnumbered and because he is such an athlete with good technical skills he can link the attack.

Many people wonder why Boateng is used instead of a more old school technical number 10, but its for this very reason.

Also when you add, Ibra's ability to drop deep, Boateng can simple collect the ball from deep, drive and make a simple pass before running past Ibra.

Gone a little off point, but yeah.

Mr Nick09 wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Madrid's problem is'nt quality...... it's the mere fact Alonso-Khedira is usually up against 3 in midfield and i dont care how good you are if you are outnumbered you will be bested 9/10 times in midfield.......

And before anyone mentions Ozil, he's much more of a forward than a midfielder so Alonso and Khedira are always out numbered.

Why do you think Kroos was always free? its not quality thats the problem its system and tactics.

Luckily Madrid have so much firepower going forward they dont need to worry about this very often.

It's exactly as you describe. Thing is, Mourinho wants Ozil to play far up the pitch to launch fast attacks and make the final pass. If you pull down Ozil to stay closer to the midfield, you have to pull down your attackers as well, and build up your attack with less speed. Mourinho is not into that, and he has clearly shown that he doesnt care about the team being split in 2 pieces. It doesnt have that Khedira is highly incompetent with the ball in his feet.

Of course iam aware of this just explaining the reasons.......

Also Idris, Kroos might be able to find space against always anyone but not as consistently as he did on Wednesday.

The reason he found so much space because Madrid were 2 v 3..... if Bayern faced a midfield that matched them up Kroos would find it alot tougher to find space.

Kroos is a very good player but he's not a magic man lol.

The Franchise wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Madrid's problem is'nt quality...... it's the mere fact Alonso-Khedira is usually up against 3 in midfield and i dont care how good you are if you are outnumbered you will be bested 9/10 times in midfield.......

And before anyone mentions Ozil, he's much more of a forward than a midfielder so Alonso and Khedira are always out numbered.

Why do you think Kroos was always free? its not quality thats the problem its system and tactics.

Luckily Madrid have so much firepower going forward they dont need to worry about this very often.

It's exactly as you describe. Thing is, Mourinho wants Ozil to play far up the pitch to launch fast attacks and make the final pass. If you pull down Ozil to stay closer to the midfield, you have to pull down your attackers as well, and build up your attack with less speed. Mourinho is not into that, and he has clearly shown that he doesnt care about the team being split in 2 pieces. It doesnt have that Khedira is highly incompetent with the ball in his feet.

Milan solved this very problem by using Boateng as a number 10. Not in any way saying Boateng is better than Ozil nor should you change, but its just an intresting point to me.

Boateng has major athletic ability, so he helps defensively, never allowing Milan to be outnumbered and because he is such an athlete with good technical skills he can link the attack.

Many people wonder why Boateng is used instead of a more old school technical number 10, but its for this very reason.

Also when you add, Ibra's ability to drop deep, Boateng can simple collect the ball from deep, drive and make a simple pass before running past Ibra.

Gone a little off point, but yeah.

Yeah, i think it's a style issue. we can have Ozil drop deeper in the middle, he can do, but we would have to modify our approach going forward and be more patient.

And Khedira-Xabi just isnt the best pairing, neither competent going forward, neither competent protecting the back 4.

That's why people got excited when we would play Granero and Xabi. Granero is a lot more mobile and can drives the ball forward while Xabi stays deep. He is much more competent with the ball than Khedira, but he doesnt have the same drive to defend and run back.

Always thought it was the approriate pairing. Someone staying deep and spreading the ball, competent defending the back 4, and another pushing the ball up

In a 4-3-3 the guy in front of the defense is a pure DM?

Yeah, indeed Nick.

Pure DM? What is this term? It seems code for, midfielder who doesnt move horizonatally and cant really pass the ball well.

The Franchise wrote:Yeah, indeed Nick.

Pure DM? What is this term? It seems code for, midfielder who doesnt move horizonatally and cant really pass the ball well.

Does'nt offer anything other than protecting the back 4 id imagine.

Vertically sorry, not horizonatally.

But yeah, it seems like that Mole.

Pure DM = someone who doesn't go box to box, just stays in front of the back 4 area/last midfielder back.

Well, by that, Xabi Alonso, Pirlo and Guardiola were/are pure DM's.

DM as in who's main job is to tackle etc, not to playmake.

Mr Nick09 wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Madrid's problem is'nt quality...... it's the mere fact Alonso-Khedira is usually up against 3 in midfield and i dont care how good you are if you are outnumbered you will be bested 9/10 times in midfield.......

And before anyone mentions Ozil, he's much more of a forward than a midfielder so Alonso and Khedira are always out numbered.

Why do you think Kroos was always free? its not quality thats the problem its system and tactics.

Luckily Madrid have so much firepower going forward they dont need to worry about this very often.

It's exactly as you describe. Thing is, Mourinho wants Ozil to play far up the pitch to launch fast attacks and make the final pass. If you pull down Ozil to stay closer to the midfield, you have to pull down your attackers as well, and build up your attack with less speed. Mourinho is not into that, and he has clearly shown that he doesnt care about the team being split in 2 pieces. It doesnt have that Khedira is highly incompetent with the ball in his feet.

that's not true at all, mou is trying to make him play deeper, but özil cant do that.

thats why he is experimenting with playing di maria there, to do the boatang role the franchise explained, but di maria is no AM so it won't help.

can't blame mourinho here

Just wanted to point out that Ribery also Drops deep in Bayern midfield and often move to CM as well

Does that make out midfield 4 against 3 and well Muller play in absent of Robben 5 against 2

Se7en wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Madrid's problem is'nt quality...... it's the mere fact Alonso-Khedira is usually up against 3 in midfield and i dont care how good you are if you are outnumbered you will be bested 9/10 times in midfield.......

And before anyone mentions Ozil, he's much more of a forward than a midfielder so Alonso and Khedira are always out numbered.

Why do you think Kroos was always free? its not quality thats the problem its system and tactics.

Luckily Madrid have so much firepower going forward they dont need to worry about this very often.

It's exactly as you describe. Thing is, Mourinho wants Ozil to play far up the pitch to launch fast attacks and make the final pass. If you pull down Ozil to stay closer to the midfield, you have to pull down your attackers as well, and build up your attack with less speed. Mourinho is not into that, and he has clearly shown that he doesnt care about the team being split in 2 pieces. It doesnt have that Khedira is highly incompetent with the ball in his feet.

that's not true at all, mou is trying to make him play deeper, but özil cant do that.

thats why he is experimenting with playing di maria there, to do the boatang role the franchise explained, but di maria is no AM so it won't help.

can't blame mourinho here

We have seen Ozil playing deep in the midfield and doing great. Even against Barcelona for the first half he was deep in the trenches tackling covering ground and trying to start counters. I also remember that game where we were chasing the score and we had him playing CM and driving the ball from deep. He can do it.

He moved Ozil away from the midfield zone because he realized that Ozil was getting ganged up whenever he would touch the ball, and Ozil on the ball is 10x more valuable than Di Maria.

Most of the time, Ozil is pushed as close as possible to Benzema so that he can make the right choices in the last third and create goals.

Mourinho is responsible for our team being broken up in two most of the time because that's the style he is after. Defend with 6 and launch quick attacks with the 4 attackers, Khedira running upfield and Marcelo eventually. If you recklessly launch your players forward all at the same time as soon as you win possession, that's what happen. As soon as your attack is stopped, everyone is forward, and everyone has to run back. Now if you repeat that kind of action in quick succession, you will see a huge gap in the middle.

I am not blaming Mourinho, just explaining how his style of football affects our outlook. I said it earlier, if you really want to commit your AM to play deeper, you have to handle the tempo and the build up play in a a different manner. Ozil is certainly not a natural CM, but he can be thought with proper coaching. He has way to high a football IQ not to be able.

So Move Ozil back...let Benzema occupy his space?

It's feasible.