Re: [Champions League] Barcelona vs Bayer Leverkusen - 3/7/12

by DuringTheWar Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:50 am

The Franchise wrote:Messi is just ruthless....doesnt let up regardless of the score..just brutal, almost cruel performance.

That comment just reminded me of pederneras river plate of the 40s. Along with other greats like di stefano they would score 5 goal and then stop just to avoid really humilliating their opponent, class

by Loshijosdequien Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:19 am

billionmillion wrote:needs just 7 goals to be barcelona's all time top scorer

Only 7 now! Holy cow!!

by Hamdyman Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:37 pm

Actually Pedro was his old self... in other words awsome ! (atleast in my opinion) this was another great thing tonight!

by BarcaKizz Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:50 pm

God please don't try to argue Pedro had a good game. He wasn't good, a good Pedro is so much more than this. He wasnt horrible that's true, but he was just ordinary. Being 'not bad' is not good enough as a Barca forward. We expect excellence, and at the moment he's not up to standard. If he was old and didn't have a heroic history we'd be asking the club to buy a new forward.

This being said, that Pedro was 'not bad' but still ordinary, I didn't think we were actually that great today. Bayer actually started the game well and we weren't very good. Early on Busquets was unusually bad, and Dani wasn't great either. By halftime though, Bayer had given up. Nobody was really that excellent except Messi, who I thought displayed the best finishing I've ever seen. No doubt in my mind hes the best finisher I've seen. Tello was great off the bench and provided a wonderful cameo of his talent, but otherwise nothing that special from us tonight.

by The Sanchez Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:49 pm

Really just had to put the cherry on the top of the cake. We did more than just that...
What is it with our attack? Villa, Cesc Pedro at the start of the season with Messi as well sometimes just couldn't find the net and it costed us games. Pedro really needs to improve if he has any chance of staying in this team.

by billy_gr Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:42 pm

Pedro was average. Simple as that.
Even Tello seems more dangerous now.
Anyway I trust he can only improve. All he need is some moral boost

by free_cat Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:57 pm

billy_gr wrote:Pedro was average. Simple as that.
Even Tello seems more dangerous now.
Anyway I trust he can only improve. All he need is some moral boost

I don't want to take anything away from Tello, but two goals aside, he was worse than Pedro yesterday. Scoring two goals is a great feat, but his general play was meh, he lost the ball 3 times trying to drible, and didn't pass to Pedro in his third chance. If Tello was Pedro, everyone would be criticizing him saying that aside from goals he didn't do anything yesterday.

Pedro was good yesterday, he looked fast, sharp, lost very few balls, linked up nicely, etc. Maybe you guys can't see it, but he is back and will show it in the next games.Also, if we can only expect excellence from Barça forwards, we should also criticize Villa and Alexis, who have both been far from excellent this season.

by eelir Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:03 pm

I think Pedro had above average game, just a bit unlucky to score. I really liked how he played. But, I still think Alexis is much better (at least form-wise) then him, and Tello lacks experience so in that sense could be a liability in bigger games. But Pedro showed that he is improving.

Actually i think the whole team is ticking better this last month (especially after Valencia game).

by Arquitecto Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:35 pm

Reporter: "Name one team you don't want to face next round" Guardiola: "Milan."

by billy_gr Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:53 pm

Milan can be a tricky opponent, I agree. Our stage encounters showed this, even if we should have won the first game.

@Free: As for Pedro and Tello, I judge each player based on my expectations on him. Pedro is average compared to his last two season’s levels, while Tello, all the inexperience mistakes aside, managed to have impact on CL game. By no means I am saying he is a better player. It’s just that he makes me expect more things from him, while regarding Pedro I feel he’s been static (and I’m not talking about his movement) this season

by BarcaKizz Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:07 pm

We have criticised Villa and Alexis at times... but at the end of the day... look at these records and tell me who deserves the most criticism:

Starts (Goals)

Alexis: 20 (11) + 3 assists
Villa: 17 (9) + 2 assists
Pedro: 21 (7) + 4 assists

Of course, stats aren't everything, but overall play Pedro has been the worst too, so that doesn't really matter a whole lot. He's been better last few games, but over the season, no.

The other things one should take into account is the background of the player and what we expect of them. I expect the most of Villa, because I think he's the best of them personally, and he was disappointing... but don't you remember the criticism and focus was all on Villa at the start of the season? Not Pedro. I then expect a lot from Pedro, because he is a class player and proven goalscorer. He's been very ordinary by his standards. Alexis is a new player, and I expected him to be a bit of a supersub and fill in when necessary. He's surprised me with how well he has done. Maybe you expected more of him, I didn't, most players that come to Barca don't explode straight away, it normally takes a long time to adapt.

As for Tello. I agree, wasn't great other than the goals, but do you forget that a forward's job is to score? If Pedro scored two I would have said well played. Goals can cover an ordinary performance, thats what being a poacher is, and Pedro's done this countless times. This doesn't even take into account that Tello is young, as others have said, and we don't really expect anything of him yet, so comparing him to Pedro isn't right in this regard.

Back to my point about expecting excellence from our forwards. I never said everyone but Pedro has been excellent. Messi has been Messi, otherwise nobody has reached the standards set previously by Villa, Pedro, Eto'o, Ronaldinho. Alexis has been a pleasant surprise and has done his best to carry us forward, but we need more... This is why we aren't winning the league, we haven't won enough games.

by free_cat Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:29 pm

I'm not talking about the overall season, I especifically, and only, was mentioning yesterdays game.

by free_cat Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:35 pm

BarcaKizz wrote:

The other things one should take into account is the background of the player and what we expect of them. I expect the most of Villa, because I think he's the best of them personally, and he was disappointing... but don't you remember the criticism and focus was all on Villa at the start of the season? Not Pedro. I then expect a lot from Pedro, because he is a class player and proven goalscorer. He's been very ordinary by his standards. Alexis is a new player, and I expected him to be a bit of a supersub and fill in when necessary. He's surprised me with how well he has done. Maybe you expected more of him, I didn't, most players that come to Barca don't explode straight away, it normally takes a long time to adapt.

I agree with your first two points on Villa and Pedro. However, I hink your expectations were very low for a player that was hyped up as the new Di Maria or CR, won the best player in Serie A award, and costed us almost the same as Aguero costed City.

I'm not taking away anything from Tello, I'm the first to rate forwards for goals and I praise him for his great runs and goals yesterday. All I was is pointing to double standards: when Pedro came in the first team, for some reason, if he scored 2 goals in a game he was still criticized for lacking in general play.

by BarcaKizz Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:01 am

free_cat wrote:I'm not talking about the overall season, I especifically, and only, was mentioning yesterdays game.

I know, but I was responding to your statement that we should criticise other bad performances too. We do criticise other poor performances, its just Pedro has had the most underwhelming performances of any player this season.

Of today's game you said "Pedro was good". I disagree. As I said before, he was 'not bad', but he wasn't good at all either. Just so you didn't think I was singling out Pedro I explained I thought quite a few players were pretty average and below their best despite the ridiculous scoreline.

by BarcaKizz Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:23 am

free_cat wrote:
BarcaKizz wrote:

The other things one should take into account is the background of the player and what we expect of them. I expect the most of Villa, because I think he's the best of them personally, and he was disappointing... but don't you remember the criticism and focus was all on Villa at the start of the season? Not Pedro. I then expect a lot from Pedro, because he is a class player and proven goalscorer. He's been very ordinary by his standards. Alexis is a new player, and I expected him to be a bit of a supersub and fill in when necessary. He's surprised me with how well he has done. Maybe you expected more of him, I didn't, most players that come to Barca don't explode straight away, it normally takes a long time to adapt.

I agree with your first two points on Villa and Pedro. However, I hink your expectations were very low for a player that was hyped up as the new Di Maria or CR, won the best player in Serie A award, and costed us almost the same as Aguero costed City.

I'm not taking away anything from Tello, I'm the first to rate forwards for goals and I praise him for his great runs and goals yesterday. All I was is pointing to double standards: when Pedro came in the first team, for some reason, if he scored 2 goals in a game he was still criticized for lacking in general play.

To answer your second paragraph first. I think we were excited about Pedro too, but I do get what you're saying. I think the hype around Tello has been mainly created by myself because I do like him. The reason is that I think we've finally found a player I've personally been looking for for about 5 years. I've always wanted a really fast winger who could come off the bench and shake things up. Tello's showing he's capable of doing that. I remember ages ago I spoke of maybe getting Vicente or Jesus Navas for such a purpose (probably dumb ideas) and this is why I liked Jeffren too. So basically I've just been excited about perhaps finally getting the supersub I've always hoped for.

As to whether my expectations were low for Alexis. The new CR7? Stupid media hype... We hear this daily about new players. Best player in Serie A? From what I saw of Serie A he was a really great player, but not the best, in fact I don't even think he was Udinese's best player. What do I think of that title anyway? Nothing... Serie A players are frequently garbage in La Liga anyway, just like a 'technical' EPL midfielder looks garbage in La Liga.

My only real opinion of Alexis was from the WC, and what I saw was a very talented young player. Not a player who would come into the team and be a star straight away, but a long-term investment. I would have expected more from Aguero, but I already thought of Aguero as one of the best forwards in the world, not a 'starlet'. Even so... I wouldn't have expected a ridiculous return from Aguero because of the time needed for adaption. I do think Aguero would be expected to adapt more quickly though, and rightly so. At the end of the day, were we even ever in for Aguero?

For this player I thought was very talented, but also young and unfamiliar to La Liga, I expected promise, but I expected he'd need time to adapt. I think his adaption is at an advanced stage now, and thats why we saw a more free performance against Valencia where he was able to dribble and swap with Messi.

So yeah, I've gotten more than I expected from Alexis in his first season. In the long run? Yes, I do think he can be as good as Di Maria.

by The Franchise Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:45 am

Arquitecto wrote:Reporter: "Name one team you don't want to face next round" Guardiola: "Milan."

I cosign this and add Napoli.

by alexjanosik Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:22 am

This CL is ours to lose.
Might sound cocky but frankly dont see any team that can stop us.
If Messi,Xavi and Iniesta stay fit we will walk the CL.
On the match,one of our easiest matches of the season.Just a walk in the park.

by danyjr Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:08 am

BarcaKizz wrote:As to whether my expectations were low for Alexis. The new CR7? Stupid media hype... We hear this daily about new players. Best player in Serie A? From what I saw of Serie A he was a really great player, but not the best, in fact I don't even think he was Udinese's best player. What do I think of that title anyway? Nothing... Serie A players are frequently garbage in La Liga anyway, just like a 'technical' EPL midfielder looks garbage in La Liga.

My only real opinion of Alexis was from the WC, and what I saw was a very talented young player. Not a player who would come into the team and be a star straight away, but a long-term investment. I would have expected more from Aguero, but I already thought of Aguero as one of the best forwards in the world, not a 'starlet'. Even so... I wouldn't have expected a ridiculous return from Aguero because of the time needed for adaption. I do think Aguero would be expected to adapt more quickly though, and rightly so. At the end of the day, were we even ever in for Aguero?

For this player I thought was very talented, but also young and unfamiliar to La Liga, I expected promise, but I expected he'd need time to adapt. I think his adaption is at an advanced stage now, and thats why we saw a more free performance against Valencia where he was able to dribble and swap with Messi.

So yeah, I've gotten more than I expected from Alexis in his first season. In the long run? Yes, I do think he can be as good as Di Maria.

Alexis won Serie A Player of The Year award last season. That claim wasn't a personal preference.
Agüero? Great goalscorer. I agree with the board's decision to sign Alexis instead though. He was Pep's main target last season, and we can clearly see right now why we needed a winger. He has been improving and watch him next season once he creates that subliminal understanding with his team mates. The kid's got talent.
As good as dí Maria? I hope not. dí Maria wouldn't last in Barcelona's system. And he dives too much, even for Barcelona standards

by free_cat Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:35 am

It is a myth that all players do better in their second season.

by BarrileteCosmico Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:21 am

The Franchise wrote:
Arquitecto wrote:Reporter: "Name one team you don't want to face next round" Guardiola: "Milan."

I cosign this and add Napoli.

I would've answered CSKA Razz

by BarrileteCosmico Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:23 am

free_cat wrote:It is a myth that all players do better in their second season.

I think there's a certain rationale for new signings. Having had time to adapt they now are allowed to explode. Think Henry's second season, or Eto'o's at Inter.

by The Franchise Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:09 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
Arquitecto wrote:Reporter: "Name one team you don't want to face next round" Guardiola: "Milan."

I cosign this and add Napoli.

I would've answered CSKA

I think we would ruin them, much like Madrid probably will next game.

by BarrileteCosmico Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:03 am

Oh I merely meant that if Guardiola had answered CSKA it would have meant he didn't think Madrid would go through Smile

by danyjr Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:59 am

free_cat wrote:It is a myth that all players do better in their second season.

I concur. Not all players do better in their second season. But talented ones usually do. It is whether they can adapt to a system and regain their confidence. I wouldn't bet against Alexis. The kid will succeed.

by free_cat Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:44 am

danyjr wrote:
free_cat wrote:It is a myth that all players do better in their second season.

I concur. Not all players do better in their second season. But talented ones usually do. It is whether they can adapt to a system and regain their confidence. I wouldn't bet against Alexis. The kid will succeed.

Not really. There's absolutely no basis to believe that:
https://goallegacy.forumotion.com/t17983-the-second-year-improvement-myth

by FennecFox7 Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:02 am

Benzema wasn't good in his first season.

Problem with your first season is it's mainly the language barrier and the culture. Sanchez has been great dude, he doesn't deserve any critzism.

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