Messi breaks the UCL knockout phase goal record @ 24.

Sushi Master wrote:Defenses aren't as important as before. Focus is mostly in midfield now. Most teams employ 5 man midfields and lone strikers. Pressing is common.

I agree defenders aren't as good as before but you also have to see how the game has changed. Most great players seem to be focused in the midfield position. Nevermind fullbacks who are very, very scarse nowadays.

Pure DMs also don't exist anymore. You have to have some sort of technical ability to suceed. I can't think of any top team employing a pure DM week after week. It's always a more defensive oriented CM, and a more creative one paired up. And a guy in the "hole".

True the game has changed alot

But I just don't see these kind of goal scoring exploits happening 10 years ago.

Would Ronaldo score 40 in the league against Super Depor, Valencia and Betis if he were playing 10 years ago. I highly doubt it.

You look at where Rooney sits on the ladder of goals scored in knockout rounds as well and although I rate him a very good player, like Messi who I can say is the best player going around atm. I do think the pure quality in defence has dropped significantly.

Defenders are also I believe at more of a disadvantage now, every 50/50 call seems to go the way of the attacker and you cannot get away with nearly as much as you used too.

Rooney only needs 4-5 goals to pass Sheva and Raul as well, next people would be saying he is the second best player ever to play the UCL? I feel that's wrong.

Just my opinion and I realise it's not a popular one.

That's a good point on 50/50 calls... As Babun said, football has become a pussy sport and for some reasons defenders are much more careful than before. On the DM thing, how many Gattusos can you find around? Van Bommel, and he's from the same generation, De Jong and he's obsolete. Hard tacklers are going extinct due to pussy refereeing. Pepe is seen as the antichrist for shit I've seen dozens of times over in the past decade.

Defenders defend like pussies out of fear of red cards. All the good defenders nowadays are mostly surgical guys who take the ball away without fouling.

AVERAGE at Best ==> Leo Messi !

¤ Messi Stats in Champions League: 63 matches [56 Starts], 44 goals [Club Record], 13+ assists [including 6 assists at Camp Nou].
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¤ Messi Stats in the last 24 Champions League matches [starts 22], scored 25 goals and assisted 7.
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¤ Champions League All-time Top-Scorers [ not including qualifying rounds]: Raul 71 – Van Nistelrooy 56 - Henry 50 - Shevchenko, Inzaghi 46 - MESSI 44.
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¤ Lionel Messi's last 11 CL goals were not scored at the Camp Nou #fcblive 10 away games, 1 neutral venue [via @infostradalive]
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¤ RECORD: Messi is the first player ever in the history of the CL to score in 6 consecutive away games.
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¤ RECORD: Messi has 19 goals in Champions League Knock-Out stages (Raul 2nd with 18)

Amazing, have so much respect for his talent. Deserves all the praise he gets.

Khaled wrote:

¤ RECORD: Messi is the first player ever in the history of the CL to score in 6 consecutive away games.

Sushi Master wrote:That's a good point on 50/50 calls... As Babun said, football has become a pussy sport and for some reasons defenders are much more careful than before. On the DM thing, how many Gattusos can you find around? Van Bommel, and he's from the same generation, De Jong and he's obsolete. Hard tacklers are going extinct due to pussy refereeing. Pepe is seen as the antichrist for shit I've seen dozens of times over in the past decade.

Defenders defend like pussies out of fear of red cards. All the good defenders nowadays are mostly surgical guys who take the ball away without fouling.

basically just discribed thiago silva...the guy barely lets defenders get the ball before him...

also concerning defening nowadays look at what nesta past his prime did this CL to messi when was the last time anyone saw messi beat the ground like that from a tackle...defending on a whole is at a all time low...

Also, Messi plays for Barcelona which is like a serious GOAT team contender. Not singing the "can't perform without Vagi and Iniesta" song, but playing in such an insanely good team does help his record out...

Not that he couldn't have gotten those numbers in another club, just that it would have taken longer.

nichabr wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:That's a good point on 50/50 calls... As Babun said, football has become a pussy sport and for some reasons defenders are much more careful than before. On the DM thing, how many Gattusos can you find around? Van Bommel, and he's from the same generation, De Jong and he's obsolete. Hard tacklers are going extinct due to pussy refereeing. Pepe is seen as the antichrist for shit I've seen dozens of times over in the past decade.

Defenders defend like pussies out of fear of red cards. All the good defenders nowadays are mostly surgical guys who take the ball away without fouling.

basically just discribed thiago silva...the guy barely lets defenders get the ball before him...

also concerning defening nowadays look at what nesta past his prime did this CL to messi when was the last time anyone saw messi beat the ground like that from a tackle...defending on a whole is at a all time low...

Please take a grip to reality. Look what Messi did to Milan's whole defence Nesta included:



And Nesta stopped him once in the whole game legally, and should have actually been sent off with two yellows:

->

Sushi Master wrote:Also, Messi plays for Barcelona which is like a serious GOAT team contender. Not singing the "can't perform without Vagi and Iniesta" song, but playing in such an insanely good team does help his record out...

Not that he couldn't have gotten those numbers in another club, just that it would have taken longer.

Yeah, Raul only played awful teams, like something called the Galacticos. With the neverheards of like Zidane, Ronaldo, Figo, Beckam, Carlos and some other small fry's like that.

Plus, if this year he ends up as top UCL scorer, that would make 4 consecutive top scorer titles for Leo. I'm 99% sure that that is unprecedented. But undoubtedly the youngest to reach 3 top scorer titles in the UCL, in a row, ever. Now on his way to 4!!!!!!!

And playing with Zidane and Figo didnt help Raul?

Kaka, Rui Costa, Pirlo didnt help Shevchenko?

In fact, both those players have their goals assisted more than Messi.

Having great individual defenders are great, but they are just one man. If it was so much harder with Stam, Nesta et al around, why was it

-Arsenal of 05 with none of those elite defenders who hold the clean sheet record
-Man Utd of' 10 hold the record for the longest run without conceding from the start of a campaign.


Obviously, having Nesta in your team is better than having Silvestre. But you dont have to beat Nesta to score a goal, that goes for Raul, Shevchenko or Messi. And if you did need to, it happened before anyway.

A couple of legends does not a great team make.

Maybe if Raul was better (as good as Messi) those teams would of been great.

Edit; As I am aure your aware, that isnt the arguement im making. But you get what im getting at hopefully.

Ridiculous achievement. He'll double the record by the time he retires...

Yeah I get the gist of what you're saying

Anyway I don't think we can really doubt either the quality of El Siete or La Pulga.

All fantastic players and I'm glad I'm getting to enjoy seeing them play.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Ridiculous achievement. He'll double the record by the time he retires...

You can never really know for sure. If Barcelona implode like we did in 2005/2006 then things aren't as easy.

G.O.A.T

Xavi. “It is clear that Messi is on a level above all others. Those who do not see that are blind.”

“When I see Messi play, in my opinion, he should win the Ballon d'Or every year. He is an unbelievable player.” Paolo Maldini

Current Barcelona >>>>>>> Galactico Madrid and 2000s Milan

Messi >>>>>>>> Raúl and Scheva

So chill, Barca fans

I specifically said he'd still be breaking those records.

jiopsi wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:Also, Messi plays for Barcelona which is like a serious GOAT team contender. Not singing the "can't perform without Vagi and Iniesta" song, but playing in such an insanely good team does help his record out...

Not that he couldn't have gotten those numbers in another club, just that it would have taken longer.

Yeah, Raul only played awful teams, like something called the Galacticos. With the neverheards of like Zidane, Ronaldo, Figo, Beckam, Carlos and some other small fry's like that.

Raul had won two champions league before Zidane, Ronaldo, Beckam came. He was the first player to score in two different CL finals, talk about a big match player. Real when they won during 1998 and 2000 were far from being favorites. Also when Raul played in the during his prime, he only had to contend with teams like Alonso's Sociadad, SuperDepor, Ayala/Aimar's Valencia, Overmars' Barca, Celta Vigo. If you had watched La liga then, you would know what some of us are talking about.

I bow down to the Igwe of CL.

Have to take my hat off to this. Not easy getting there.



Desreves a Golden Bow, IMO.

StevieRayVaughan wrote:

jiopsi wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:Also, Messi plays for Barcelona which is like a serious GOAT team contender. Not singing the "can't perform without Vagi and Iniesta" song, but playing in such an insanely good team does help his record out...

Not that he couldn't have gotten those numbers in another club, just that it would have taken longer.

Yeah, Raul only played awful teams, like something called the Galacticos. With the neverheards of like Zidane, Ronaldo, Figo, Beckam, Carlos and some other small fry's like that.

Raul had won two champions league before Zidane, Ronaldo, Beckam came. He was the first player to score in two different CL finals, talk about a big match player. Real when they won during 1998 and 2000 were far from being favorites. Also when Raul played in the during his prime, he only had to contend with teams like Alonso's Sociadad, SuperDepor, Ayala/Aimar's Valencia, Overmars' Barca, Celta Vigo. If you had watched La liga then, you would know what some of us are talking about.

I'm not sure if you noticed this or not but this thread has absolutely nothing to do with La Liga so why your bringing it up is beyond me. La Liga could have had 10 elite teams back then and it still would have nothing to do with this CHAMPIONS LEAGUE conversation.

Then you say Raul is the first player to score in 2 different CL finals, guess what Messi has done that too so again it's really pointless to bring that up to prove "what a big game player" Raul is and I guess your trying to say Messi isn't or something, your not making much sense?. I believe Eto'o has done it as well.

Also, people act like Barca has been this media darling and bulldozer that was a favorite in every CL game and just rolled over these weak and helpless teams. You say Madrid wasn't a favorite when Raul won some CL's well guess what Barca was a heavy underdog the first time they played Man United in the finals with an attacking trio of Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez and an insane defense and Barca tore them to shreds with Messi scoring from his head (which you know people like you said he couldn't do).

So again nothing your saying is really relevant to the conversation or it's all stuff Messi has done at a younger age and will continue to build upon.

I wish people would take a look at the Man U team BArca beat in the first final, that team was loaded and was destroying everyone in there way that year with a great great defense and then people have the nerve to act like they were chump change. This board is filled with revisionist history.

the only reason barca were underdogs in the 09 final was the faux pas at stamford bridge ^^

Nah Barca were considered underdogs back in 09 because the were crap the year before.

Jack Daniels wrote:Nah Barca were considered underdogs back in 09 because the were crap the year before.

i beg to differ since they were favorites in th e quarters, and particularly the semis against chelsea, thats why people were so surprised with chelsea's great performance against barca..

also even though they were crap in the league they were quite good in the cl, losing only 1-0 to the defending champions and that too to a wonder goal


on topic i didnt see raul's prime between 98-02.. so messi for me is the stand out performer in europe according to the years of football i have watched.. credit to him.. hope that he doesnt break raul's all time record though its probably going to happen .. still if anybody should be top scorer of europe why not a goat like messi

I was just messin around lol

It's the only chance i can say that Barca is crap and some Barca fans will actually agree with me.