Draw against Espanyol Rage thread

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Post by Omniscient Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:32 pm

Anyone have stats for the % of games Barca has won with Keita involved as opposed to without him?

Should be interesting.

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Post by Albiceleste Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:48 pm

Omniscient wrote:Anyone have stats for the % of games Barca has won with Keita involved as opposed to without him?

Should be interesting.
Since Keita has been involved in 169 games since Guardiola was coach it probably won't be surprising tbh.

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Post by free_cat Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:24 am

matpol wrote:Yeah, by Pedro standards in this season that was his best game. But he doesn't deserve to start, he is atrocious in this season, terrible first touch, no finishing. Pedro from last season would controll this ball properly and score a goal, Pedro from this season made terrible first touch and shot a ball that would went to a goal kick if not handball. Poor shot, way off the target. We need old Pedro, when will he wake up? Cuenca in this season >>>>> Pedro, Sanchez >>>>> Pedro. Cesc is fantastic transfer, if not him, we would be out of race for the title now. He scored a lot of important goals.

Yes Matpol, Pedro was utter rubbish. :facepalm: He only did more than Sanchez in half the time. As he almost always does when he comes in for Sanchez. Even though, the next game he is in the bench. Off course he can't pick up his form if he is always in the bench and not given a run of games... this reminds me of other players who have been treated like this by Pep....

And Tello is garbage. :facepalm:
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Post by matpol Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:17 am

I know that you hate Sanchez and overhype any La Masia product, but Pedro is garbage in this season, not only I think that. Pedro was good on Sunday, but overall in this season Sanchez performances >>>>>>>>>>>>> Pedro performances. Deal with it.
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Post by eelir Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:57 pm

I had my head cleared up a bit now, and i was thinking about what is happening this season.
We play so good at home. We play good away with tough teams and CL games. Why do we screw out the weak teams away?

I do not understand football as many of you guys here, but i just share my thoughts to what is wrong.

Have the weak teams figure us out? I do not think so. I think the main reason is a simple complacency. We do not attack enough. It is like, we are too sure we going to win the game until it is too late. At home, players have the crowd, they have the push and the excitement of the crowd. Away, with weak teams, there is not much to fight for. On the other hand with big teams, or CL games, they have a challenge, and a risk of loosing so they step up the game.
I think finally the complacency got us.

I just hope they fecking wake up and see that they almost lost this season.
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Post by free_cat Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:04 pm

matpol wrote:I know that you hate Sanchez and overhype any La Masia product, but Pedro is garbage in this season, not only I think that. Pedro was good on Sunday, but overall in this season Sanchez performances >>>>>>>>>>>>> Pedro performances. Deal with it.

I don't hate Sanchez, actually I like him.

On performances, everyone will agree that Sanchez has been better than Pedro this season. Me too.

However, I think that is mostly because Pedro is not playing enough or has an injury (it was reported he had pubalgia, which is difficult to cure).

Also, while I agree that Sanchez has been better, no way he has been so much better to Pedro as you imply, neither Pedro has been rubbish. Alexis has just been barely better than Pedro.

Pedro:24 games (many as sub) 6 goals, 4 assists. Scored important goals vs. Milan at home.
Alexis Sanchez: 15 games (most starting) 5 goals 1 assist. Scored important goal vs. Madrid.

Barely any significant difference.

In the league:
Pedro: 12 games (5 sub). 61 turnovers. 17 stolen balls.
Alexis: 7 games (1 sub). 54 turnovers. 19 stolen balls.

This shows Alexis loses the ball more than Pedro per game (the myth about Pedro's terrible first touch broken!), steals more than Pedro per game (Alexis has great work rate, but Pedro too).


Statistics don't show much difference. Take away Alexis goal vs. Madrid, which was really important and brilliantly taken, and IMO Pedro has been better. Not that any of them have been good enough though.

In general, I feel that Alexis for 26+11 milion is a big ripoff and that he is not at in form Pedro's level. He is a worse goalscorer than Pedro, has only one leg, isn't really fast and is not a better dribler than Pedro (although he was advertised as a great dribler, he has yet to drible someone else than Marcelo, who is terrible). Alexis has only showed good ball keeping under pressure, great workrate, and scored that Madrid goal.
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Post by matpol Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:47 pm

free_cat wrote:

Pedro:24 games (many as sub) 6 goals, 4 assists. Scored important goals vs. Milan at home.
Alexis Sanchez: 15 games (most starting) 5 goals 1 assist. Scored important goal vs. Madrid.

Barely any significant difference.

In the league:
Pedro: 12 games (5 sub). 61 turnovers. 17 stolen balls.
Alexis: 7 games (1 sub). 54 turnovers. 19 stolen balls.

Pedro real stats: 16 starts, 24 appearances, 6 goals.
Alexis real stats: 9 starts, 15 appearances, 5 goals. So sorry Pedro didn't have many games as a sub, and Alexis didn't mostly start.

As for turnovers stats, it's simple. Alexis has more turnover ratio because he tries to dribble. Pedro knows that he is in terrible form and always pass it back to Alves, Xavi etc, because he knows that he can't even beat a blindman in this form. Cuenca has btw 8 starts, 11 apps and 4 goals, more goals in LL that Pedro (1 goal in 12 games Pedro, 2 goals in 5 games Cuenca :coffee:).

As for Alexis, being a rip-off there I will agree, I didn't want him and prefer us to go for Aguero. Aguero >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanchez, and don't tell me bs that he will not fit in the system.

I'm not Pedro hater btw, but I don't rate him higly like others. He must improve or he will spend Euro 2012 at his sofa in his room. We need his clinical finishing abilities, I hope that old Pedro will be back. If he won't, I will criticise him, being from La Masia doesn't mean that he is untouchable.

Had we not bought Cesc we will be out of title race now. Villa injured, Pedro off form, Sanchez injury prone, only Messi and Cesc are our stable goalscorers. Cesc is great transfer, we finally have some depth.

Keita went for AFCON so at least no more useless appearances for him.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:05 pm

Keita went to AFCON only now? I thought AFCON had already begun.
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Post by free_cat Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:33 pm

matpol wrote:
free_cat wrote:

Pedro:24 games (many as sub) 6 goals, 4 assists. Scored important goals vs. Milan at home.
Alexis Sanchez: 15 games (most starting) 5 goals 1 assist. Scored important goal vs. Madrid.

Barely any significant difference.

In the league:
Pedro: 12 games (5 sub). 61 turnovers. 17 stolen balls.
Alexis: 7 games (1 sub). 54 turnovers. 19 stolen balls.

Pedro real stats: 16 starts, 24 appearances, 6 goals.
Alexis real stats: 9 starts, 15 appearances, 5 goals. So sorry Pedro didn't have many games as a sub, and Alexis didn't mostly start.

As for turnovers stats, it's simple. Alexis has more turnover ratio because he tries to dribble.


Your stats, mine stats... it's the same: Alexis has been barely better than Pedro.

On turnovers, key word is "tries". Alexis tries to drible, but he has yet to do any significant dribling play. I prefer a player that knows his limit but when he dribles he is successful.

Pedro is much better than you credit him. Guess I've imagined all he has done for us...
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Post by CBarca Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:53 pm

Pedro got injured and is still looking for more play time.

Sanchez was injured and it's his first year here.

It's understandable both might be underachieving...Sanchez because of his price tag (although he needs more time before we can say that of course) and Pedro because of the standards he's set in the past.

It's really no big deal. Both are justifiable. In time both will start to play better and better.
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Post by free_cat Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:19 am

CBarca wrote:Pedro got injured and is still looking for more play time.

Sanchez was injured and it's his first year here.

It's understandable both might be underachieving...Sanchez because of his price tag (although he needs more time before we can say that of course) and Pedro because of the standards he's set in the past.

It's really no big deal. Both are justifiable. In time both will start to play better and better.

I hope so!!!
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Post by alexjanosik Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:26 pm

I dont agree with the Keita bashfest.
I dont blame him 1% for the draw against Espanyol.Just like I dont blame him one bit for the loss against Getafe or the draw against Bilbao etc.
Keita has played reasonably well whenever given the chance.
The problem lies somewhere else and Keita is being made the scapegoat.
Its not Keita's fault that we are not scoring away from home.
For some starnge reason Messi has struggled to score goals away from home this season and as a result we are dropping points away from home.
For the past 2 seasons we have been far too reliant on Messi to get the goals.This season he struggles to get the goals and we drop points away from home.

It has absolutely nothing to do with Keita.Messi gets his goal scoring touch away from home and we start winning more regularly away from home.
Else we will struggle occasionally away from home.
Which is why we need Pedro to get back to his lethal best or buy a goal scoring forward.

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Post by Hamdyman Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:44 pm

alexjanosik wrote:
For some starnge reason Messi has struggled to score goals away from home this season and as a result we are dropping points away from home.
For the past 2 seasons we have been far too reliant on Messi to get the goals.This season he struggles to get the goals and we drop points away from home.

It has absolutely nothing to do with Keita.Messi gets his goal scoring touch away from home and we start winning more regularly away from home.
Else we will struggle occasionally away from home.
Which is why we need Pedro to get back to his lethal best or buy a goal scoring forward.


Agree with this 100% ! And to be honest we couldnt have lost Villa at a more crucial time... Kieta is being bashed as if he was a curse or brings bad fortune more then him actually playing badly. if the other end does it magic that were are "spoiltly' (if i may) getting used to seeing, we would not be thinking of how individually anyone lacked.

We need to score more away goals, simple... watch the form away and were back on track, because Camp Nou is becoming a safe haven of points and superb quality.
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Post by Lord Hades Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:54 pm

at least you guys scape goat keita, one of the worst players in your team relatively

madrid fans here :brickwall:
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Post by windkick Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:17 am

CBarca wrote:Pedro got injured and is still looking for more play time.

Sanchez was injured and it's his first year here.

It's understandable both might be underachieving...Sanchez because of his price tag (although he needs more time before we can say that of course) and Pedro because of the standards he's set in the past.

It's really no big deal. Both are justifiable. In time both will start to play better and better.

Very positive guy here lol

I am really not on the Sanchez train. I wasn't on it prior to the season and I am not on it now. bar the goal vs Madrid I think he has not been nowhere near the price tag. For that amount we could of got some one else
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Post by CBarca Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:15 am

windkick wrote:
CBarca wrote:Pedro got injured and is still looking for more play time.

Sanchez was injured and it's his first year here.

It's understandable both might be underachieving...Sanchez because of his price tag (although he needs more time before we can say that of course) and Pedro because of the standards he's set in the past.

It's really no big deal. Both are justifiable. In time both will start to play better and better.

Very positive guy here lol

I am really not on the Sanchez train. I wasn't on it prior to the season and I am not on it now. bar the goal vs Madrid I think he has not been nowhere near the price tag. For that amount we could of got some one else

Boy, positive is about the last thing I am, if you want to know the truth, but I won't get into it.

I'm just trying to be reasonable here. Maybe it's because I wrote it, but I have a hard time disagreeing with anything I said. Both were victims of unfortunate injuries and both have excuses for under performing since then.

It's a bit early to be jumping on the 'sack Alexis' train...for anyone. He's hardly been here for half a year, and he was injured 2 months of that so...that's 4 months? Judging a player after 4 months is harsh.

Same goes for Pedro. You can't just miraculously recover form unless you are supremely talented or lucky, or just really on your game.

Striking is like that in nature anyway. In time things will get better. As always, with striking.

It's not optimistic to look at it that way, it's just not pessimistic. Very Happy
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Post by Omniscient Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:16 am

diptiman wrote:at least you guys scape goat keita, one of the worst players in your team relatively

madrid fans here :brickwall:

Ronaldo's been the worst player on the pitch in every Clasico he's played in under Mourinho.

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Post by billy_gr Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:41 am

What’s really frustrating/unfortunate this season is that messi doesn’t have the consistent support he had in the previous ones from his fellow forwards in terms of efficiency.
Pedro is invisible and villa is the definition of bad luck this year. Alexis is having his first year with us with no solidified first team position and only fabregas seems to be able to give messi a hand in goal scoring. Remember, last season there were away games that were won by either by pedro or by villa. This season “MVP” simply doesn’t exists and this certainly costs us points.

Forget everything I said above. This season’s bane is simply corner kicks. If we magically ban corner kicks from football we can win a treble again
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:54 am

Jan 18th: Real Madrid - Barcelona (Cup)
Jan 22nd: Real Madrid - Athletic Bilbao (League)
Jan 25th: Barcelona - Real Madrid (Cup)

Bilbao: 2-2 vs Barca, 1-1 vs Valencia

Bielsa

banana

This is where we get our 2 points back.
I wish Madrid victory and have performed various chants and hymns as is determined by ritual.

(I realize that Bilbao have just as busy a schedule, and that they would probably prioritize the cup to the league since they can actually win that tournament, but a man can dream, right? Razz )
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Post by free_cat Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:02 am

Madrid will score 5 vs. Athletic.
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Post by messixaviesta Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:25 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:That's not entirely true Dani, I'm watching the game as we speak and in the first 14 minutes Alexis could have scored 4 times, and probably should have twice.

Also, surprised no one mentioned Valdes' superb save :bow:

I agree alfred. For quite some time the entire forward line has been a bit too reliant on Messi and now it's not working as well. Maybe Messi is exhausted or opponents have become too used to facing this kind of forward line or the changes in tactics are causing problems I am not sure but the forward line is lacking something quite surely. Neither do I know who can fix it. Bluntly put, for all the blame showered on Ibrahimovic, he had hit the ground running while I have to call Alexis Sanchez a disappointment so far. He kind of has to prove he is worthy of playing alongside some of the names who are now his team mates. Also while I too was against the purchase of Fabregas, now I kind of wonder how much more difficult it would be without his goals. He's done very little apart from scoring goals but somehow this season that is what we need the most.




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Post by messixaviesta Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:34 pm

Normally I am the last person to blame the referee but so far since no one has done that I will say this without meaning to start a debate or worse a controversy. From a pure emotional point of view the number of wrong decisions in this game against us hurt badly. They were too high in number. The one that jars most in my mind is the one just before the end where Iniesta gives a high quality pass to Messi and he is almost sure to score but the linesman has flagged offside when the defender on the right is very clearly playing Messi onside. If that had been called correctly we may have still been discussing a very bad performance but also talking about how Iniesta saves the team just when it's needed and how Messi changes the definition of a poor performance. Then again the old saying goes that 'If ifs and buts were pots and pans ....'

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Post by the xcx Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:44 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Jan 18th: Real Madrid - Barcelona (Cup)
Jan 22nd: Real Madrid - Athletic Bilbao (League)
Jan 25th: Barcelona - Real Madrid (Cup)

Bilbao: 2-2 vs Barca, 1-1 vs Valencia

Bielsa

banana

This is where we get our 2 points back.
I wish Madrid victory and have performed various chants and hymns as is determined by ritual.

(I realize that Bilbao have just as busy a schedule, and that they would probably prioritize the cup to the league since they can actually win that tournament, but a man can dream, right? Razz )
Meh, it only takes a second to win the game. Idc how good Bielsas team is but we are going to trash em or atleast secure an comfortable win.
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Post by Pedram Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:49 pm

The xcx wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:Jan 18th: Real Madrid - Barcelona (Cup)
Jan 22nd: Real Madrid - Athletic Bilbao (League)
Jan 25th: Barcelona - Real Madrid (Cup)

Bilbao: 2-2 vs Barca, 1-1 vs Valencia

Bielsa

banana

This is where we get our 2 points back.
I wish Madrid victory and have performed various chants and hymns as is determined by ritual.

(I realize that Bilbao have just as busy a schedule, and that they would probably prioritize the cup to the league since they can actually win that tournament, but a man can dream, right? Razz )
Meh, it only takes a second to win the game. Idc how good Bielsas team is but we are going to trash em or atleast secure an comfortable win.

Bielsas Bilbao is actually a hard team to beat this season. Barca were losing to them until Messi leveled the game at the last minute. we won't trash them but i'm sure we can beat them.
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Post by shinigami99 Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:59 pm

Bilbao is going to bow down to Madrid...just watch, gonna be a totally different team out there
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Post by FennecFox7 Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:56 am

shinigami99 wrote:Bilbao is going to bow down to Madrid...just watch, gonna be a totally different team out there

Give me a break.. not everyone is out to get you
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