Continuing Alex´s work, I thought this would be an intresting one.

Hopefully everyone understand the context here, but to be clear I am not talking about trick moves. They have their own merit, but we arent a team where much of that goes on.

I personally have Iniesta winning this with Xavi just coming in second.

Busquets is a master himself and I may be willing to put him ahead of Messi at this, im not sure and could be convinced by a good arguement either way.

This is why I am going with Iniesta and the type of things im talking about.

Messi easily for me.

You can't be serious Dani... Even considering Busquets being bbetter than messi at turns and fakes has to be the mot ridiculous thing I've seen you post, no offense but busquets doesn't come close, not top 5 on the team IMO alves and Sanchez are much more agile than busi.

What do you mean by hesitations?

Abidal

Lionel Messi wrote:You can't be serious Dani... Even considering Busquets being bbetter than messi at turns and fakes has to be the mot ridiculous thing I've seen you post, no offense but busquets doesn't come close, not top 5 on the team IMO alves and Sanchez are much more agile than busi.

You understand the difference between close control, dribbling, 1 v 1, agililty and feints, hesistations and turns?

Everything Busquets does when under pressure are these sorts of things.

Dani I think your video is making me biased towards Iniesta. When I came in I originally thought Xavi, but after watching that (and failing to find one for Xavi) I'm now leaning towards Iniesta. Either way they're both great and there's no shame in being second to either one.

I would have Iniesta coming in at first followed by Xavi if we are considering turns only with Busquets at third and Messi fourth.

If it was just fakes, then Messi would win it hands down with Busquets coming in at second and then Xavi and Iniesta.

I dont know what you mean by hesitations though.

I think overall Iniesta would come first for me and then followed by Xavi. Iniesta because he is so good at the turns and he fakes well too. Xavi is also excellent at turns while he fakes decently.

Messi is supreme at fakes but his turns are not as good as Iniesta and Xavi are at fakes. I hope you get my point. So Messi takes third.

Busquets is a fourth because he is not exceptional in both turns and fakes. He is great at them but the other three are above him because they are exceptionally superior at one of the two of turns and fakes.

I still dont know what hesitations mean.

MARADONA>messi wrote:What do you mean by hesitations?

Often part of a fient, a good example might be :53 on the Iniesta vid. A better one might be 1:31 where it seems he is going right, he hesistates which throws the defenders balance off (all together one might call it a fient) and goes in the other direction.

A hesistation freezes the defence/defender allowing time and space, Busquets is the master at this.

I would club all of hesitations, feints and fakes into fakes Dani. It is similar body movement for all of them. What do you think?

Suppose you could, but I think people are already not clear of the idea so the more detailed the explanation the better.

No matter either way really aslong as people get it.

The Franchise wrote:

Lionel Messi wrote:You can't be serious Dani... Even considering Busquets being bbetter than messi at turns and fakes has to be the mot ridiculous thing I've seen you post, no offense but busquets doesn't come close, not top 5 on the team IMO alves and Sanchez are much more agile than busi.

You understand the difference between close control, dribbling, 1 v 1, agililty and feints, hesistations and turns?

Everything Busquets does when under pressure are these sorts of things.

yeah I understand but quick turns and feints are messis bread and butter, he is IMO top 3 on the team, with xavi and iniesta.

Xavi for me.
He is a master at the pelopina.
And he fakes exceptionally well.
Messi second with Iniesta and Busquets third.

I think he means this



anyone better than messi? not possible

On the subject of turns interesting to note the type of turns.
Xavi generally does the pelopina with the inside of his foot,whereas in the case of Messi he prefers to turn with the outside of his foot.
Although I have seen Xavi do the reverse pelopina and Messi turning with the inside of his foot.
But their preferred turns are different.Messi turns with the outside of his foot and Xavi with the inside.

Indeed. I prefer Xavi´s one overall though, because when you use your right foot the defender automatically thinks your going in that direction. Even if just for a split second, the naturally reaction is your going in the direction of the foot you use. So when he actually turns the other direction it buys him that split moment.

Messi of course has acceleration and a low center of gravity, so when he turns out, he is already reaching a speed while the opponant is still reacting.

The Franchise wrote:Indeed. I prefer Xavi´s one overall though, because when you use your right foot the defender automatically thinks your going in that direction. Even if just for a split second, the naturally reaction is your going in the direction of the foot you use. So when he actually turns the other direction it buys him that split moment.

Messi of course has acceleration and a low center of gravity, so when he turns out, he is already reaching a speed while the opponant is still reacting.

I saw a terrific video on our 3 geniuses a couple of days ago.It was on youtube and made by allas.
A sensational video and the best football video on youtube I have seen.I think the title was 'How to make space like Xavi,Iniesta and Messi?'.
Some wonderful footage of the three explaining how the 3 of them make space.
Check it out if you can dani.

Yeah, I have seen that. I am 99% sure someone posted it on here.

Great stuff.

Here is the thread (and video) for anyone looking for it. Or you could just go right down the page

I say Iniesta, then Xavi (although it's close enough to tie here) and then Busquets and Messi - again, for these two, Messi is better at turning but Busquets has a better hesitation (arguably the best of them all) and I'd say they are probably be equal at feinting. Although Messi- as Dani said- has a lower center of gravity and higher acceleration so he obviously can dribble better than Busquets, but if we look at feinting itself, it's equal.

It's arguable the four of them are all so good at it that it's almost a four way tie but I think Iniesta and Xavi have just a small extra something.

Busquets is not to be underrated here, either. His hesitation (usually combined with a feint) is ridiculously good.

May somebody tell me what a pelopina is? I'm sure I'll know it when I see it, but I've never heard the term.

Turns Messi. Nobody is even close at turns to Messi, he can turn 90 degrees almost at full speed.

Fakes, I don't know, I think Xavi/Iniesta/Messi are pretty equal.

Hesitations, don't know what that means.

Yeah, I think Xavi and Busquets are best at those.

All of them can make these turns and fakes. but there are some differences, first difference is the position that they play. iniesta, xavi and busquets play close to defence so they use it more. In attack you dont make turns much, but when messi is in midfield he does it and he can do turns and fakes while running vs 2-3 players. others do it mostly in standing position to get out of pressure by opposition player. but when messi does turn or fakes it becomes beginning of new attack

Thanks Dani.

I swear that was called the Xavi turn. Or at least that's what it's called in my household.