Re: Luis Suarez Banned for 8 Premier League Games

by Guest Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:27 am

mr-r34 wrote:By the looks of it there a lot of Suarez haters rather then racism defenders.

We would also like to know when the FA intend to charge Patrice Evra with making abusive remarks to an opponent after he admitted himself in his evidence to insulting Luis Suarez in Spanish in the most objectionable of terms. Luis, to his credit, actually told the FA he had not heard the insult.

When will this be addressed in the topic, evra admitted to it and there is no charge, this case is just absurd, if it can be taken to the courts it will be overturned.

THIS THIS AND THIS

BUT, Suarez isn't Black....so insulting him is not a problem :study:

by TheRedStag Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:28 am

mr-r34 wrote:By the looks of it there a lot of Suarez haters rather then racism defenders.

We would also like to know when the FA intend to charge Patrice Evra with making abusive remarks to an opponent after he admitted himself in his evidence to insulting Luis Suarez in Spanish in the most objectionable of terms. Luis, to his credit, actually told the FA he had not heard the insult.

When will this be addressed in the topic, evra admitted to it and there is no charge, this case is just absurd, if it can be taken to the courts it will be overturned.

We haven't complained, so the FA don't do anything.

by mr-r34 Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:29 am

elmystique wrote:
kiranr wrote:The intent is important Elmystique. If a person commits murder, but it was done in self defense, then there wont be any conviction.

By your logic Elmystique, since the victim was killed, regardless of the intent, the person should be convicted. That is faulty.

I am all for proof being found and Suarez proven innocent, but until then, he is guilty as as now,

and same thing implies in murder cases right?

Guilty until proven innocent?

by Yeezus Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:29 am

Can we all just shake hands Smile

by Le Samourai Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:30 am

mr-r34 wrote:
elmystique wrote:
kiranr wrote:The intent is important Elmystique. If a person commits murder, but it was done in self defense, then there wont be any conviction.

By your logic Elmystique, since the victim was killed, regardless of the intent, the person should be convicted. That is faulty.

I am all for proof being found and Suarez proven innocent, but until then, he is guilty as as now,

and same thing implies in murder cases right?

Guilty until proven innocent?

seems legit,

by TheRedStag Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:30 am

mr-r34 wrote:
elmystique wrote:
kiranr wrote:The intent is important Elmystique. If a person commits murder, but it was done in self defense, then there wont be any conviction.

By your logic Elmystique, since the victim was killed, regardless of the intent, the person should be convicted. That is faulty.

I am all for proof being found and Suarez proven innocent, but until then, he is guilty as as now,

and same thing implies in murder cases right?

Guilty until proven innocent?

elmystique says so, so thats the way it is anymore. :brickwall:

by jibers Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:31 am

The real winner here is scum terry. The fa used diveuarez as a scapegoat.

by elm_baraja_shaman Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:31 am

mr-r34 wrote:
elmystique wrote:
kiranr wrote:The intent is important Elmystique. If a person commits murder, but it was done in self defense, then there wont be any conviction.

By your logic Elmystique, since the victim was killed, regardless of the intent, the person should be convicted. That is faulty.

I am all for proof being found and Suarez proven innocent, but until then, he is guilty as as now,

and same thing implies in murder cases right?

Guilty until proven innocent?

the FA has already punished him, if that was not the case then it would be different...

by TheRedStag Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:32 am

elmystique wrote:
mr-r34 wrote:
elmystique wrote:
kiranr wrote:The intent is important Elmystique. If a person commits murder, but it was done in self defense, then there wont be any conviction.

By your logic Elmystique, since the victim was killed, regardless of the intent, the person should be convicted. That is faulty.

I am all for proof being found and Suarez proven innocent, but until then, he is guilty as as now,

and same thing implies in murder cases right?

Guilty until proven innocent?

the FA has already punished him, if that was not the case then it would be different...

you make it too easy :facepalm:

by elm_baraja_shaman Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:32 am

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
mr-r34 wrote:
elmystique wrote:
kiranr wrote:The intent is important Elmystique. If a person commits murder, but it was done in self defense, then there wont be any conviction.

By your logic Elmystique, since the victim was killed, regardless of the intent, the person should be convicted. That is faulty.

I am all for proof being found and Suarez proven innocent, but until then, he is guilty as as now,

and same thing implies in murder cases right?

Guilty until proven innocent?

elmystique says so, so thats the way it is anymore.

Luis Suarez Banned for 8 Premier League Games - Page 20 Funny-pictures-superior-cat-on-horse

by mr-r34 Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:34 am

elmystique wrote:
mr-r34 wrote:
elmystique wrote:
kiranr wrote:The intent is important Elmystique. If a person commits murder, but it was done in self defense, then there wont be any conviction.

By your logic Elmystique, since the victim was killed, regardless of the intent, the person should be convicted. That is faulty.

I am all for proof being found and Suarez proven innocent, but until then, he is guilty as as now,

and same thing implies in murder cases right?

Guilty until proven innocent?

the FA has already punished him, if that was not the case then it would be different...

, because in this Dane age everyone who gets punished is guilty.

by Le Samourai Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:34 am

jibers wrote:The nou winner her is scum terry. The fa used divuarez as a scapegoat.

I doub't they'll have the tenacity to not punish him........there's evidence...........they don't want to push it right now.

by elm_baraja_shaman Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:35 am

mr-r34 wrote:
elmystique wrote:
mr-r34 wrote:
elmystique wrote:
kiranr wrote:The intent is important Elmystique. If a person commits murder, but it was done in self defense, then there wont be any conviction.

By your logic Elmystique, since the victim was killed, regardless of the intent, the person should be convicted. That is faulty.

I am all for proof being found and Suarez proven innocent, but until then, he is guilty as as now,

and same thing implies in murder cases right?

Guilty until proven innocent?

the FA has already punished him, if that was not the case then it would be different...

, because in this Dane age everyone who gets punished is guilty.

he uttered the word.... bounce

by TheRedStag Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:35 am

elmystique wrote:
Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
mr-r34 wrote:
elmystique wrote:
kiranr wrote:The intent is important Elmystique. If a person commits murder, but it was done in self defense, then there wont be any conviction.

By your logic Elmystique, since the victim was killed, regardless of the intent, the person should be convicted. That is faulty.

I am all for proof being found and Suarez proven innocent, but until then, he is guilty as as now,

and same thing implies in murder cases right?

Guilty until proven innocent?

elmystique says so, so thats the way it is anymore.

Are these memes meant to help you save face after you've been shown to be an idiot over and over in this thread by several different posters.

by elm_baraja_shaman Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:38 am

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
mr-r34 wrote:
elmystique wrote:
kiranr wrote:The intent is important Elmystique. If a person commits murder, but it was done in self defense, then there wont be any conviction.

By your logic Elmystique, since the victim was killed, regardless of the intent, the person should be convicted. That is faulty.

I am all for proof being found and Suarez proven innocent, but until then, he is guilty as as now,

and same thing implies in murder cases right?

Guilty until proven innocent?

elmystique says so, so thats the way it is anymore.

Are these memes meant to help you save face after you've been shown to be an idiot over and over in this thread by several different posters.

these posters who have or are proving me to be an idiot are actually debating, you on the other hand is just hiding behind their backs and throwing loose jabs at me.....

but nothing concrete comes from you so I just meme you,

life is good since the msg gets across very well bounce

by RedOranje Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:39 am

As I've neither the time nor the patience to read what I assume is 27 pages of rhetoric and hyperbole from both sides, sprinkled liberally with the wumming and unnecessary opinions of those ignorant to the actual situation, I'll simply say what I have to say (and likely repeat what's already been said several times in the process).

1) Both Evra and the FA have said in their statements that they do not believe Suarez to be racist, so those accusing him of such in this thread would do well to stop posting.

2) Suarez was charged with using insulting language... and that ban was most likely doubled as the use of "race related language" was considered antagonistic. That means insulting language should be a 4 match ban from here on.

3) The FA has stated that it will provide "written reasons"; not that they did NOT say they will release the evidence.

4) The statement provided by Evra suggests that he first insulted Suarez due to his nationality, and that Suarez then replied with "Por que, negrito/negro." A statement that in Uruguay translates to "Why, mate?" Why has Evra then not been charged as well?

5) The club statement has shown that this is certainly not over and that Liverpool Football Club and all involved will continue to defend Suarez until all possibilities are exhausted. This includes legal recourse, as the charge involved and the potential ramifications would extend far beyond the team sheets of 8 matches. Evra's word would not hold up in court, and he and the FA will have to know that so they will do anything and everything possible to keep it from landing there. Expect this to run and run for a long while yet.

Again, unless you've actually read the reports, statements, and followed both players, you would be best advised NOT to make categorical statements on any party involved.

by Le Samourai Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:42 am

RedOranje wrote:As I've neither the time nor the patience to read what I assume is 27 pages of rhetoric and hyperbole from both sides, sprinkled liberally with the wumming and unnecessary opinions of those ignorant to the actual situation, I'll simply say what I have to say (and likely repeat what's already been said several times in the process).

1) Both Evra and the FA have said in their statements that they do not believe Suarez to be racist, so those accusing him of such in this thread would do well to stop posting.

2) Suarez was charged with using insulting language... and that ban was most likely doubled as the use of "race related language" was considered antagonistic. That means insulting language should be a 4 match ban from here on.

3) The FA has stated that it will provide "written reasons"; not that they did NOT say they will release the evidence.

4) The statement provided by Evra suggests that he first insulted Suarez due to his nationality, and that Suarez then replied with "Por que, negrito/negro." A statement that in Uruguay translates to "Why, mate?" Why has Evra then not been charged as well?

5) The club statement has shown that this is certainly not over and that Liverpool Football Club and all involved will continue to defend Suarez until all possibilities are exhausted. This includes legal recourse, as the charge involved and the potential ramifications would extend far beyond the team sheets of 8 matches. Evra's word would not hold up in court, and he and the FA will have to know that so they will do anything and everything possible to keep it from landing there. Expect this to run and run for a long while yet.

Again, unless you've actually read the reports, statements, and followed both players, you would be best advised NOT to make categorical statements on any party involved.

I would be quite sad to see it not go to court.This is punitive territory..........

by TheRedStag Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:42 am

elmystique wrote:
Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
mr-r34 wrote:
elmystique wrote:
kiranr wrote:The intent is important Elmystique. If a person commits murder, but it was done in self defense, then there wont be any conviction.

By your logic Elmystique, since the victim was killed, regardless of the intent, the person should be convicted. That is faulty.

I am all for proof being found and Suarez proven innocent, but until then, he is guilty as as now,

and same thing implies in murder cases right?

Guilty until proven innocent?

elmystique says so, so thats the way it is anymore.

Are these memes meant to help you save face after you've been shown to be an idiot over and over in this thread by several different posters.

these posters who have or are proving me to be an idiot are actually debating, you on the other hand is just hiding behind their backs and throwing loose jabs at me.....

but nothing concrete comes from you so I just meme you,

life is good since the msg gets across very well

Sure dude. You are doing good, keep it up. Thumbs up

by BarrileteCosmico Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:43 am

I haven't read the 28 pages of this thread so I will just come in with my main points:

-Negrito is not a racial slur in Rioplatense spanish, and can be used in an affectionate way
-It's doubtful that Suarez meant it in an affectionate way though, and in all likelihood he used it as an insult
-Regardless of the cultural context, the phrase was not spoken in Uruguay, so the cultural context argument is void.
-Suarez is not racist. He was merely insulting someone. There's a difference.
-I am from Argentina but study in the US, I don't go around calling people negrito because I am aware of how it would be interpreted, and so should Suarez.
-It's possible that Suarez was not aware of the negative connotation associated with the word since he has spent so little time in England, although this is not likely.
-If this were the case Suarez should be playing the ignorance card, not the cultural context card.
-Regardless, Suarez was wrong to do it in England. 8 matches is excessive though.

by elm_baraja_shaman Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:46 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:I haven't read the 28 pages of this thread so I will just come in with my main points:

-Negrito is not a racial slur in Rioplatense spanish, and can be used in an affectionate way
-It's doubtful that Suarez meant it in an affectionate way though, and in all likelihood he used it as an insult
-Regardless of the cultural context, the phrase was not spoken in Uruguay, so the cultural context argument is void.
-I am from Argentina but study in the US, I don't go around calling people negrito because I am aware of how it would be interpreted, and so should Suarez.
-It's possible that Suarez was not aware of the negative connotation associated with the word since he has spent so little time in England, although this is not likely.
-If this were the case Suarez should be playing the ignorance card, not the cultural context card.
-Regardless, Suarez was wrong to do it in England. 8 matches is excessive though.

finally words of a wise one uttering the same msg I have been trying to convey yet those that defend Suarez argue based on cultural tendencies,

great you are Argentine Alfred...... such a world with unbiased people like you would make a haven

:bow:

by elm_baraja_shaman Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:48 am

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
mr-r34 wrote:
elmystique wrote:
kiranr wrote:The intent is important Elmystique. If a person commits murder, but it was done in self defense, then there wont be any conviction.

By your logic Elmystique, since the victim was killed, regardless of the intent, the person should be convicted. That is faulty.

I am all for proof being found and Suarez proven innocent, but until then, he is guilty as as now,

and same thing implies in murder cases right?

Guilty until proven innocent?

elmystique says so, so thats the way it is anymore.

Are these memes meant to help you save face after you've been shown to be an idiot over and over in this thread by several different posters.

these posters who have or are proving me to be an idiot are actually debating, you on the other hand is just hiding behind their backs and throwing loose jabs at me.....

but nothing concrete comes from you so I just meme you,

life is good since the msg gets across very well

Sure dude. You are doing good, keep it up.

we all can clarify the difference, I haven't negged a single post by you unlike you chasing my posts around and negging 'em all

great job kiddo...

by RedOranje Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:48 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:I haven't read the 28 pages of this thread so I will just come in with my main points:

-Negrito is not a racial slur in Rioplatense spanish, and can be used in an affectionate way
-It's doubtful that Suarez meant it in an affectionate way though, and in all likelihood he used it as an insult
-Regardless of the cultural context, the phrase was not spoken in Uruguay, so the cultural context argument is void.
-Suarez is not racist. He was merely insulting someone. There's a difference.
-I am from Argentina but study in the US, I don't go around calling people negrito because I am aware of how it would be interpreted, and so should Suarez.
-It's possible that Suarez was not aware of the negative connotation associated with the word since he has spent so little time in England, although this is not likely.
-If this were the case Suarez should be playing the ignorance card, not the cultural context card.
-Regardless, Suarez was wrong to do it in England. 8 matches is excessive though.

You've ignored several parts of the case, though I see other posters agree as it makes the case simple for those who don't wish to actually follow the case closely.

by TheRedStag Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:50 am

elmystique wrote:
Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
mr-r34 wrote:
elmystique wrote:
kiranr wrote:The intent is important Elmystique. If a person commits murder, but it was done in self defense, then there wont be any conviction.

By your logic Elmystique, since the victim was killed, regardless of the intent, the person should be convicted. That is faulty.

I am all for proof being found and Suarez proven innocent, but until then, he is guilty as as now,

and same thing implies in murder cases right?

Guilty until proven innocent?

elmystique says so, so thats the way it is anymore.

Are these memes meant to help you save face after you've been shown to be an idiot over and over in this thread by several different posters.

these posters who have or are proving me to be an idiot are actually debating, you on the other hand is just hiding behind their backs and throwing loose jabs at me.....

but nothing concrete comes from you so I just meme you,

life is good since the msg gets across very well

Sure dude. You are doing good, keep it up.

we all can clarify the difference, I haven't negged a single post by you unlike you chasing my posts around and negging 'em all

great job kiddo...

I haven't either. Your posts themselves detract from your reputation. A little red line on the side cant beat that.

By the way, you should read through this in your free time
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy

by elm_baraja_shaman Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:52 am

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
mr-r34 wrote:
elmystique wrote:
kiranr wrote:The intent is important Elmystique. If a person commits murder, but it was done in self defense, then there wont be any conviction.

By your logic Elmystique, since the victim was killed, regardless of the intent, the person should be convicted. That is faulty.

I am all for proof being found and Suarez proven innocent, but until then, he is guilty as as now,

and same thing implies in murder cases right?

Guilty until proven innocent?

elmystique says so, so thats the way it is anymore.

Are these memes meant to help you save face after you've been shown to be an idiot over and over in this thread by several different posters.

these posters who have or are proving me to be an idiot are actually debating, you on the other hand is just hiding behind their backs and throwing loose jabs at me.....

but nothing concrete comes from you so I just meme you,

life is good since the msg gets across very well

Sure dude. You are doing good, keep it up.

we all can clarify the difference, I haven't negged a single post by you unlike you chasing my posts around and negging 'em all

great job kiddo...

I haven't either. Your posts themselves detract from your reputation. A little red line on the side cant beat that.

By the way, you should read through this in your free time
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy

am sure they detract by themselves.... affraid

by BarrileteCosmico Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:53 am

RedOranje wrote:You've ignored several parts of the case, though I see other posters agree as it makes the case simple for those who don't wish to actually follow the case closely.

Could you name these (or refer to a post#, I'm not reading 28 pages)? As you correctly pointed out, I haven't followed the case closely

by RedOranje Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:57 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
RedOranje wrote:You've ignored several parts of the case, though I see other posters agree as it makes the case simple for those who don't wish to actually follow the case closely.
Could you name these (or refer to a post#, I'm not reading 28 pages)? As you correctly pointed out, I haven't followed the case closely

First and foremost, it is simply Evra's word against that of Suarez. This is Patrice Evra, who has a history of making such claims without evidence.

Second, the FA have stated that they will release "written reasons" rather than evidence and allowed a full appeal... were the evidence strong enough there would be no need. As such the Association as a whole must not believe the "negrito" term to be as black and white as is being portrayed and are willing to hear the argument for the fact that it does not hold racist connotations.

Next, by the accounts provided, Evra insulted Suarez based on his nationality first. Evra is also aware that "negrito/negro" is not a racist term in most South American countries as he has played with players from those nations on his own club and, according to several reports, they have used the term as a term of endearment for him in the past.

Finally: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/ferguson-stands-up-for-schmeichel-1280049.html

Charges against Schmeichel were dropped as there was no evidence and they could not justify punishment for based on a player's word.

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