Re: Is England's best hope of succeeding in Euros, adapting Stoke's Tactics?

by The Franchise Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:16 pm

Zealous wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
The Madrid One wrote:world class counter attacking systems are the future of football, germany and real madrid will dominate the planet.

if england want success, they should follow suit too.

Counter attack the future?

So what happens when you face a team that dont want to attack and therefore you cannot counter?

Watch our game vs Levante. That is exactly what happens lol

Socieadad did the same thing but Pipita saved our asses. It'll be a problem for Mou but I don't think we've reached the point where teams will want to full on park the bus against us yet.

Even then we can still play with the ball at our feet so I think we can solve that type of issue.

Exactly the game I was thinking about when I wrote it lol

In the end, all ways of playing have a method to limit it. There is no master system for all teams to copy.

I think Madrids way is the best for them though and they should certaintly stick to it with the personale they have. It will be difficult as teams park the bus more, but when your great, teams do that eventually no matter how you play.

by Zealous Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:20 pm

Any system with three at the back lives and dies by it's fullbacks/wide men.

When we played three at the back we had the luxury of being able to field Roberto Carlos and Michel Salgado. Both of them thrived in this system.

Germany's full backs aside from Lahm are not at that high a level yet. So unless Lowe can get his wingers to become work horses I'm not sure if he can pull it off.

@Dani

Fully agree there is no "one style to rule them all" out there. [insert Messi hobbit joke here]

by rwo power Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:25 pm

The Franchise wrote:I like 3421. I saw the game vs Ukraine and while it was hard defensively to pull off I think it was at least partly down to the wings backs Aogo and Trasch not being good enough/not having good games.

I think Aogo and Träsch are simply not up to it. Maybe Lahm and Höwedes could do it? I'm sure Löw will certainly try it again. The Ukraine match was an experiment in several respects, one part being that Löw did never train that setup in the first place. In an interview he later said that he wanted to see if the players were flexible enough to deal with a totally unknown system.

by The Franchise Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:28 pm

On the subject of 3 at the back, im convinced Argentina need to go down this route.

Drag the tractor Zanetti back and have Di Maria or even Jonas on the other side as wingbacks and they provide the energy and width Argentina naturally lack.

I know they struggle finding 2 worthy centerbacks, so 3 is a big ask, but Mascherano is becoming more of a centerback by the day.

Two out of Gago, Banega, Belluschi, Lucho in the midfield with Messi, Higuain and one of Aguero or Lavezzi as a triangle up front.

by The Franchise Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:30 pm

rwo power wrote:
The Franchise wrote:I like 3421. I saw the game vs Ukraine and while it was hard defensively to pull off I think it was at least partly down to the wings backs Aogo and Trasch not being good enough/not having good games.
I think Aogo and Träsch are simply not up to it. Maybe Lahm and Höwedes could do it? I'm sure Löw will certainly try it again. The Ukraine match was an experiment in several respects, one part being that Löw did never train that setup in the first place. In an interview he later said that he wanted to see if the players were flexible enough to deal with a totally unknown system.

Lahm can, Howedes I dont know. Not sure he has the attacking instincts for it because the two players provide the only width in the team so its crucial they can attack.

by Sushi Master Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:33 pm

Hoewedes is a great defender, but offers nothing defensively.

The only guy I can think of that can play there is Mueller, because of his insane workrate and stamina.

But you'd be killing a lot of firepower up above and I don't think it's worth it.

The only obvious choice would be Boateng, but I'm not sure about his stamina.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:35 pm

The Franchise wrote:On the subject of 3 at the back, im convinced Argentina need to go down this route.

Drag the tractor Zanetti back and have Di Maria or even Jonas on the other side as wingbacks and they provide the energy and width Argentina naturally lack.

I know they struggle finding 2 worthy centerbacks, so 3 is a big ask, but Mascherano is becoming more of a centerback by the day.

Two out of Gago, Banega, Belluschi, Lucho in the midfield with Messi, Higuain and one of Aguero or Lavezzi as a triangle up front.

Is England's best hope of succeeding in Euros, adapting Stoke's Tactics? - Page 3 Coloccinipic-669012445

by The Franchise Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:37 pm

They fact he still doesnt command a place while Demicrap does, tells you all you need to know lol

Stupidity.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:47 pm

The Franchise wrote:They fact he still doesnt command a place while Demicrap does, tells you all you need to know lol

Stupidity.

While its true iam very happy about it lol, we have little to no defensive depth so if he got injured we would be f*cked is a massive understatement.

by rwo power Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:51 pm

The Franchise wrote:Lahm can, Howedes I dont know. Not sure he has the attacking instincts for it because the two players provide the only width in the team so its crucial they can attack.

Problem is we have far more center backs than wing backs. Höwedes is mainly a center back just like Boateng, despite the two frequently playing as wing backs, too. Pity Rafinha isn't German, he would be a good fit and he plays for Bayern, too Very Happy

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:55 pm

Rafinha has played in Germany for a number of years now when you combine his two spells.......

Must be close to obtaining German citizenship no?

Edit: Seen he played for Brazil once LOL, tough luck that.

by Funkentelechy Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:58 pm

I particularly dont like systems with 3 defenders, but this could be a good option for Argentina.

In fact, I just read in Olé that they might be using 3-5-2 against Colombia, with Masche as CB and Guiñazu as holding mid.

by rwo power Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:59 pm

Immaculate_Mole wrote:Edit: Seen he played for Brazil once LOL, tough luck that.

Exactly that's the problem *sighs*

by Funkentelechy Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:01 pm

Rafinha started for the u23 team and the coach wouldn't let him go.

Even tho he's something like 5th choice lol.

by Ganso Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:03 pm

Guinazu to start for argeninta :bow:

Rafinha would be better than Alves tbh

by Adit Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:06 pm

England one of the problem is english players rarely going abroad.

International football isnt EPL's fast paced end to end counter attacking football,its more of a breaking the dead lock type of football..

by Sushi Master Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:19 pm

Funkentelechy wrote:I particularly dont like systems with 3 defenders, but this could be a good option for Argentina.

In fact, I just read in Olé that they might be using 3-5-2 against Colombia, with Masche as CB and Guiñazu as holding mid.

Argentina don't have the wingbacks for that formation.

They already tried it out against Venezuela and failed hard.

If Rincón can shatter it, nevermind what Guarín will do to it.

by Zealous Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:20 pm

Guarin

by Ganso Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:23 pm

guarin is in a slump of form atm,he isnt the same as last season.Colombia are without Falcao too,but they have the almighty yepes

bow down mehssi :bow:

Is England's best hope of succeeding in Euros, adapting Stoke's Tactics? - Page 3 Tumblr_lnzg32jHZL1qflk3no1_500

by Adit Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:24 pm

thats an epic pic Laughing

by Zealous Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:26 pm

For the love of God someone photoshop Cristiano into that pic.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:26 pm

Argentina have very hard working wingers in Di Maria and Gutierrez why couldnt it work?

Garay Masch Colo
Di Maria Banega Gago Gutierrez
Messi Higuian Aguero

Also switch to counter attack tactics.

by Zealous Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:28 pm

Di Maria + Higuain = Goals.

This can not be debated.

by Ganso Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:30 pm

Zealous wrote:Di Maria + Higuain = Goals.

This can not be debated.

didnt they play together on the world cup? :coffee:

by Funkentelechy Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:30 pm

I expected much from Colombia, but their Copa América campaign was truly shocking.

Xavi: Colombia has deceived me

@Sushi: They could use Zanetti or try Di Maria there, as Dani said, in the long run that is, both are unavailable atm.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:30 pm

Ganso wrote:
Zealous wrote:Di Maria + Higuain = Goals.

This can not be debated.
didnt they play together on the world cup?

Higuian scored a hatrick as far as iam aware :coffee:

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