Re: The Racism Thread

[McLewis]

https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/18012793.beyonce-rumoured-filming-new-music-video-thamesm

Here's some racism for you from Beyonce of all people the person that Michelle Obama said everyone should look up to. She if filming in my area but only wants normal black and brown people to be in her video no white folks.

Was 2000 years of shaping humanity at the expense of everyone that wasn't white not enough exclusivity for you or something?

Whites have dominated world history for well over a 2 goddamn millennia while excluding black and brown people from literally everything that didn't involve menial, back-breaking, early death-inducing labor. I can't imagine having the audacity to feel so aggrieved when those historically oppressed black and brown people now have a platform to celebrate themselves exclusively and take that chance as soon as they get it.

What Beyonce is doing is not racism. It's not even prejudice. Both require hostility and hate. She does not hate white people.  It's simply giving a platform to black and brown people that have historically been denied one and have instead been exploited, abused, attacked, lynched, raped and thrown away like trash by........whites.

So whites don't get to exclude every other race due to their millennia-long racial superiority complex and then complain when the other races they excluded do it to them the first chance they get. It doesn't work that way. There are a whole of white folks on this board that get this. There are a whole lot of them in my personal orbit that get it. And there are just as many, like you, who I suspect, get it as well, but prefer to play provocateur and feign indignant petulance. That's pretty transparent and I have no problem calling it out every time.

i dont care who beyonce puts in her video and tbh i think people play on race far to much anyway. call me a cnut or a white cnut its all the same to me. but we both know for a fact that had a white singer donr this the world would lose its shit. and i agree that black people in the past were treated digustingly but for you to say the people that suffered years ago some how gives a rich privliged black super star like beyonce a free pass is bull shit tbh. your people were forced into being slaves my people were rounded up put into death camps and gassed to death so we have all had things hard in the past mate.

Hundreds of years ago, there was no such thing as a black rich, privileged superstar. It was literally impossible because whites didn't want my ancestors educated. They didn't want them dreaming of bigger and better things than picking cotton and whip waiting for them if they didn't meet that quota. If there was, we wouldn't be having this discussion. That's the whole point. So let's not get into a "who got oppressed worse" contest. It's not productive to the discussion.

I am curious though.....Since you think this is racist, that logic would mean you think a Hollywood movie putting out a casting call for a white actresses with blond hair and blue eyes is racist against everyone else, right?

[Warrior]

How about both are not racism ?

[McLewis]

Well yeah neither are racist, but I want to see if Unique will continue following the faulty logic path that has convinced him that what Beyonce did was racist.

[Warrior]

Ok fair enough

How i understood Unique posts he was mocking the fact that, had Beyoncé been white, it would have been a useless scandal and that double standard is bs. I agree. If he truly thinks that makes her a racist, then i disagree.

[Unique]

Ok fair enough

How i understood Unique posts he was mocking the fact that, had Beyoncé been white, it would have been a useless scandal and that double standard is bs. I agree. If he truly thinks that makes her a racist, then i disagree.

thats exactly how i see it.

[Unique]

Was 2000 years of shaping humanity at the expense of everyone that wasn't white not enough exclusivity for you or something?

Whites have dominated world history for well over a 2 goddamn millennia while excluding black and brown people from literally everything that didn't involve menial, back-breaking, early death-inducing labor. I can't imagine having the audacity to feel so aggrieved when those historically oppressed black and brown people now have a platform to celebrate themselves exclusively and take that chance as soon as they get it.

What Beyonce is doing is not racism. It's not even prejudice. Both require hostility and hate. She does not hate white people.  It's simply giving a platform to black and brown people that have historically been denied one and have instead been exploited, abused, attacked, lynched, raped and thrown away like trash by........whites.

So whites don't get to exclude every other race due to their millennia-long racial superiority complex and then complain when the other races they excluded do it to them the first chance they get. It doesn't work that way. There are a whole of white folks on this board that get this. There are a whole lot of them in my personal orbit that get it. And there are just as many, like you, who I suspect, get it as well, but prefer to play provocateur and feign indignant petulance. That's pretty transparent and I have no problem calling it out every time.

i dont care who beyonce puts in her video and tbh i think people play on race far to much anyway. call me a cnut or a white cnut its all the same to me. but we both know for a fact that had a white singer donr this the world would lose its shit. and i agree that black people in the past were treated digustingly but for you to say the people that suffered years ago some how gives a rich privliged black super star like beyonce a free pass is bull shit tbh. your people were forced into being slaves my people were rounded up put into death camps and gassed to death so we have all had things hard in the past mate.

Hundreds of years ago, there was no such thing as a black rich, privileged superstar. It was literally impossible because whites didn't want my ancestors educated. They didn't want them dreaming of bigger and better things than picking cotton and whip waiting for them if they didn't meet that quota. If there was, we wouldn't be having this discussion. That's the whole point. So let's not get into a "who got oppressed worse" contest. It's not productive to the discussion.

I am curious though.....Since you think this is racist, that logic would mean you think a Hollywood movie putting out a casting call for a white actresses with blond hair and blue eyes is racist against everyone else, right?

im not getting into who was oppressed the worst im saying that in history every race has had bad things happen to them but it seems like the black slavery is used far to often to give people a free pass to say and do things that others would get pulled up for. its like a jewish super star singer making a video in europe but saying we dont want any germans to take part in it. does what happend in ww2 give the jews the right to hold it against the german people of today. how many germans alive today have to bear the brunt for the things the nazis did. beyonce says im making a video in london and says i want normal black and brown people in the vid. white kids ask if they can be in the video and she says no. you cant be in my video because 200 years ago white people in america had black slaves so that means you cant be in my video. thats bullshit imo. also you want to end all racism but how does beyonce picking only black and brown people help that in any way.

[Unique]

another example would be a jewish business saying we are hiring staff but we dont want any germans.

[Unique]

Well yeah neither are racist, but I want to see if Unique will continue following the faulty logic path that has convinced him that what Beyonce did was racist.

i didnt convince myself what beyonce did was racist but i am convinced that if a white pop star did the same thing everyone else would say its racist. and for you to say that black people being slaves 200 years ago means beyonce can tell white people they are not welcome is crazy.

[Hapless_Hans]

PS: For example, if Beyoncés video doesn't end up making the immigrant experience, or racism, it's subject, I will agree with you that not including any white people will be a dick move.

what the fuck would beyonce know about the immigrant experience, or racism over the road from me. and why would it be a dick move and not a racist move.

You do realize that films and videos more often than not aim to show a fictional world, yes? One that's not identical as the location the shoot takes place?

[McLewis]

Was 2000 years of shaping humanity at the expense of everyone that wasn't white not enough exclusivity for you or something?

Whites have dominated world history for well over a 2 goddamn millennia while excluding black and brown people from literally everything that didn't involve menial, back-breaking, early death-inducing labor. I can't imagine having the audacity to feel so aggrieved when those historically oppressed black and brown people now have a platform to celebrate themselves exclusively and take that chance as soon as they get it.

What Beyonce is doing is not racism. It's not even prejudice. Both require hostility and hate. She does not hate white people.  It's simply giving a platform to black and brown people that have historically been denied one and have instead been exploited, abused, attacked, lynched, raped and thrown away like trash by........whites.

So whites don't get to exclude every other race due to their millennia-long racial superiority complex and then complain when the other races they excluded do it to them the first chance they get. It doesn't work that way. There are a whole of white folks on this board that get this. There are a whole lot of them in my personal orbit that get it. And there are just as many, like you, who I suspect, get it as well, but prefer to play provocateur and feign indignant petulance. That's pretty transparent and I have no problem calling it out every time.

i dont care who beyonce puts in her video and tbh i think people play on race far to much anyway. call me a cnut or a white cnut its all the same to me. but we both know for a fact that had a white singer donr this the world would lose its shit. and i agree that black people in the past were treated digustingly but for you to say the people that suffered years ago some how gives a rich privliged black super star like beyonce a free pass is bull shit tbh. your people were forced into being slaves my people were rounded up put into death camps and gassed to death so we have all had things hard in the past mate.

Hundreds of years ago, there was no such thing as a black rich, privileged superstar. It was literally impossible because whites didn't want my ancestors educated. They didn't want them dreaming of bigger and better things than picking cotton and whip waiting for them if they didn't meet that quota. If there was, we wouldn't be having this discussion. That's the whole point. So let's not get into a "who got oppressed worse" contest. It's not productive to the discussion.

I am curious though.....Since you think this is racist, that logic would mean you think a Hollywood movie putting out a casting call for a white actresses with blond hair and blue eyes is racist against everyone else, right?

im not getting into who was oppressed the worst im saying that in history every race has had bad things happen to them but it seems like the black slavery is used far to often to give people a free pass to say and do things that others would get pulled up for. its like a jewish super star singer making a video in europe but saying we dont want any germans to take part in it. does what happend in ww2 give the jews the right to hold it against the german people of today. how many germans alive today have to bear the brunt for the things the nazis did. beyonce says im making a video in london and says i want normal black and brown people in the vid. white kids ask if they can be in the video and she says no. you cant be in my video because 200 years ago white people in america had black slaves so that means you cant be in my video. thats bullshit imo. also you want to end all racism but how does beyonce picking only black and brown people help that in any way.

We've already established that what Beyonce did is NOT racism so this entire line of logic is irrelevant.

another example would be a jewish business saying we are hiring staff but we dont want any germans.

German is not a race so this analogy doesn't work.

Well yeah neither are racist, but I want to see if Unique will continue following the faulty logic path that has convinced him that what Beyonce did was racist.

i didnt convince myself what beyonce did was racist but i am convinced that if a white pop star did the same thing everyone else would say its racist. and for you to say that black people being slaves 200 years ago means beyonce can tell white people they are not welcome is crazy.

White musicians were doing this though.....60+ years ago this was all they were doing. They would play for all white crowds and would either segregate blacks or not allow them in at all. Hell, at the birth of R&B in the late 50s and throughout the 60s, whites began getting hip to black music and what did they do when they wanted to see those black stars play their music? Segregate the crowds or have these black musicians only play in front of white crowds. This is what gave rise to the "chitlin circuit", which was a tour path throughout the East and South that were accepting of black musicians. This was yet another means for the rise of the civil rights movement here.

So your whataboutism has already happened. You just seem bothered that progress in civil rights has righted that wrong.

[Unique]

So what your really saying is pay back is a bitch.

[McLewis]

So what your really saying is pay back is a bitch.

Pretty much, yeah.

All will be even in another 300 years or so.

[Unique]

So what your really saying is pay back is a bitch.

Pretty much, yeah.

All will be even in another 300 years or so.

you should have just said that in the first place. I'm down with that tbh. I can't lie I have seen plenty of things happen to some people over the last few years that made me feel all warm Inside and I did utter the words that's pay back bitch.

[Unique]

So what your really saying is pay back is a bitch.

Pretty much, yeah.

All will be even in another 300 years or so.

sorry to bring this up again but i have one question thats been bugging me. are you also saying that all white people should be held accountable for the forced slavery of black people.

[Myesyats]

Cmon Unique, McLewis is right, you can;t attack black people for embracing black people. No one should be held accountable but everyone should be reminded when necessary in order to move on to a better future.

[Unique]

Cmon Unique, McLewis is right, you can;t attack black people for embracing black people. No one should be held accountable but everyone should be reminded when necessary in order to move on to a better future.

I'm not attacking anyone mate I'm just interested to see how deep pay back is a bitch runs. As I said before the pay back is a bitch attitude is one I have taken many times so I can't be a hypercrit.

[McLewis]

It's quite all right, @Myesyats. Unique wanting to unpack this notion more is one of the reasons I created this thread. Frank discussions are needed if race relations are to be understood and improved, even if they seem counterproductive and pointless.

So what your really saying is pay back is a bitch.

Pretty much, yeah.

All will be even in another 300 years or so.

sorry to bring this up again but i have one question thats been bugging me. are you also saying that all white people should be held accountable for the forced slavery of black people.

Not at all. What I'm saying is that the ancestors of the current generation of white people created and profited from the enslavement of my ancestors so when we, as descendants of those slaves, want an event to celebrate the freedoms our ancestors could only dream of, the descendants of those who enslaved them should at least try to understand that and offer their support for it instead of immediately making accusations of reverse racism and discrimination. That is as narrow-minded and near-sighted as position to take that I can think of.

So just as it's my responsibility as a descendant of slaves to remember the suffering and struggle of my ancestors, it's the responsibility of modern day descendants of those slave owners to use the inherent privilege that they are afforded due to their skin color to try and improve current race relations so that all races are truly on an equal footing in all aspects of society. Whites of the current generations have an enormous amount of influence on race relations, even if they don't feel they do. All a lot of black people want from them is to acknowledge that privilege and use it to better society around them instead of protecting themselves at the cost of black lives, like their ancestors did.

[Lex]

We are all descendents of slaves in one way or another. Slavery isn't exclusive to one race, nor is it confined to one specific period of time

[El Gunner]

We are all descendents of slaves in one way or another. Slavery isn't exclusive to one race, nor is it confined to one specific period of time

https://media.tenor.com/images/f70cacc2a409403f23cb506e00c88096/tenor.gif

[McLewis]

We are all descendents of slaves in one way or another. Slavery isn't exclusive to one race, nor is it confined to one specific period of time

You're correct in a very general way, of course. Literally every civilization in history has used slave labor. That's not at all up for dispute here.

What must be understood, however, is what makes American slavery wholly different from older forms of slavery is that African slaves were bought in a monetized economy. They were considered a commodity no different than tobacco and were often leased and mortgaged like a car or house respectively. Such transactions may have occured in other civilizations, but nothing approaching the sophistication and intricacy found in the American slave market. This mass privatization of African slaves in the US became the cornerstone of the American economy. This is why the Jim Crow era became a thing during Reconstruction after the Civil War and why it was so brutal and so personal for both whites and blacks. Rich whites were pissed off at losing their livelihoods (built on the backs of slaves) so they riled up poor whites to terrorize and murder these now freed blacks into the same docile submission as before. They wanted them to know that a piece of paper (the Emancipation Proclamation) meant nothing and lynching them was a good way of enforcing that. How many other cultures had massive slave economies that not only allowed, but encouraged masters to terrorize slaves they were forced to free with such relentless maliciousness?  Again, I can't think of a single civilization that did this beyond maybe the French Republic with Haiti (and those slaves ended up successfully rebelling) and even that was a lot more complicated.

So my point here is that yes, all cultures have had slavery and some still do. My focus though is on the story of my ancestors so that's where my perspectives on race relations all stem from. It doesn't mean I'm seeing this with tunnel vision. It just means that I have established where my True North is when it comes to this topic.

[Unique]

didnt a lot of rich black people also keep black slaves in america at the same time. im sure i read somewhere that lots of black people also kept black slaves but not as much infomation on this.

[Thimmy]

didnt a lot of rich black people also keep black slaves in america at the same time. im sure i read somewhere that lots of black people also kept black slaves but not as much infomation on this.

I’ve read something similar, but I believe that was in Africa and west-Asia during different times in history. It’s been a norm to keep slaves, several times, and in several parts of the world throughout history. I believe there’s even a part in the bible that encourages slavery - I know both Hitchens and Dawkins have referred to this chapter in the old testament a few times.

I read back in college that the vikings would raid villages in the UK as well as more exotic places, and then bring slaves that they couldn’t even communicate with, back to their homeland. These were usually women, men would typically just get slaughtered. White people have been kept as slaves as well, but they’ve more often than not been more privileged than other races in the grand scheme of things. Perks of being ego-driven invaders and conquerors of foreign lands, I suppose

[McLewis]

didnt a lot of rich black people also keep black slaves in america at the same time. im sure i read somewhere that lots of black people also kept black slaves but not as much infomation on this.

You're partially right. There are a few instances where freed blacks owned slaves in the Antebellum South. However, they were not as rich as whites (this would never be allowed due to significant white supremacy) and the slaves often owned by these free blacks were family members that were purchased for the express reason to free them from slavery. I know of no instances where free blacks purchased slaves to profit from them like the whites. Getting prosperous enough to purchase slaves and then free them was often the only way for some blacks to free their families completely from slavery.

[Young Kaz]

Surprise Surprise.

Latest California School Shooter was the child of a White Supremacist father and self hating mentally ill Asian woman.

bu bu muh toxic asian masculinity

How about the media stop calling him Asian and tell the truth. If you called that kid Asian before this he would have probably shot you on the spot. I wouldnt be surprised if this was caused by the kids there calling him Asian.

[Myesyats]

Well if his mother is Asian than he's half Asian which means he's Asian-American which means he's Asian.

Or am I missing something?

[Young Kaz]

Well if his mother is Asian than he's half Asian which means he's Asian-American which means he's Asian.

Or am I missing something?

Not based on that he isnt.

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