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Post by Unique on Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:32 pm

talking about things that have happened in history i see a lot of black people today that really take it personaly to slavery in the past like people that were not born at the time really feel it on a personal level. my people were treated just as bad by the nazis when they tried to wipe us off the face of the earth and i agree that both are equaly as bad but for some reason i dont feel it as personal not sure if that makes me a bad person or not but it feels like it was something terrible that happened to other people and not me even though it was mt people. maybe its because nobody really talks about what happened to the gypsys as much.

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Post by Myesyats on Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:36 pm

@Nishankly wrote:Myesyats is the true fighter here with his Polish ancestry.

Anyways enough ww2 back to the topic.

Not only in the middle of two World Wars but also more than 40 years of Communism. Fucked from every direction. My grandparents had heaps of incredible stories because of it, though.
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Post by Thimmy on Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:52 pm

One of these days, I'll tell you GUYS the incredible story of the christmas tree we stole from the Germans and gave to England Laughing

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Post by Unique on Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:53 pm

@Thimmy wrote:One of these days, I'll tell you GUYS the incredible story of the christmas tree we stole from the Germans and gave to England Laughing
rofl rofl rofl

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Post by VivaStPauli on Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:35 pm

@Thimmy wrote:One of these days, I'll tell you GUYS the incredible story of the christmas tree we stole from the Germans and gave to England Laughing

That would've been a lot less ironic.

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Post by Thimmy on Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:48 pm

I don't mind irony hmm


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Post by CBarca on Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:10 am

@Unique wrote:talking about things that have happened in history i see a lot of black people today that really take it personaly to slavery in the past like people that were not born at the time really feel it on a personal level. my people were treated just as bad by the nazis when they tried to wipe us off the face of the earth and i agree that both are equaly as bad but for some reason i dont feel it as personal not sure if that makes me a bad person or not but it feels like it was something terrible that happened to other people and not me even though it was mt people. maybe its because nobody really talks about what happened to the gypsys as much.


Please tell me you're NOT actually comparing the fact that the Germans fought the British (among others) during WWII to slavery. Unless you're Jewish. And even then, that's not really a comparison that makes any sense...

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Post by Unique on Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:56 am

@CBarca wrote:
@Unique wrote:talking about things that have happened in history i see a lot of black people today that really take it personaly to slavery in the past like people that were not born at the time really feel it on a personal level. my people were treated just as bad by the nazis when they tried to wipe us off the face of the earth and i agree that both are equaly as bad but for some reason i dont feel it as personal not sure if that makes me a bad person or not but it feels like it was something terrible that happened to other people and not me even though it was mt people. maybe its because nobody really talks about what happened to the gypsys as much.


Please tell me you're NOT actually comparing the fact that the Germans fought the British (among others) during WWII to slavery. Unless you're Jewish. And even then, that's not really a comparison that makes any sense...
no you pleb im talking about the nazis trying to wipe out the gypsys from the face of the earth like they did with the jews. i am a gypsy and my point was that wiping my people from the face of the earth in gas chambers could be seen as just as bad as slavery would you agree.

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Post by VivaStPauli on Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:17 pm

And you're not salty about the genocide of our people?

BTW didn't know you're a gypsy, my mom's family is like half Romani, I don't really run around calling other people gorgios but I reckon the old Führer would've done me in right with ya.

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Post by McLewis on Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:35 pm

I try not to get sucked into comparing slavery and the holocaust. Both were cataclysmic events that irreparably changed the world. This one-upping of which was worse and who should be more aggrieved isn't productive. We black folks are really bad about this. We don't have a monopoly on suffering at the hands of white folks and I have to keep reminding black folks around me of that. It's a very unpopular opinion, but it's no less true.

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Post by Thimmy on Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:53 pm

As far as I know, I’m mostly German, but also Scandinavian, English and a little bit French. Wouldn’t be surprised if there’s some Jewish in there.

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Post by Myesyats on Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:18 pm

@Thimmy wrote:As far as I know, I’m mostly German, but also Scandinavian, English and a little bit French. Wouldn’t be surprised if there’s some Jewish in there.

We don't see color on this forum. For me, you are 100% cool. Afro
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Post by Thimmy on Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:13 pm

Well, that's good. I don't have a lot of color to provide Razz One of these days, I'll take a DNA test. Hopefully, it's not something boring like 95% Northern European. I kind of have a feeling that's the case, though.

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Post by Robespierre on Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:47 pm

Honestly race is just a cultural construction.
But it's like talking about the sex of angels.
Just DNA differentiates human beings but you can't talk about races in a scientific way.
America explains perfectly what I've just said.

In USA    we recognize "racial groups" as whites, blacks, Indians, Puerto Ricans etc

But it's not skin that makes race  but whose son are you
(who' s seen Sons of Anarchy on Netflix has idea about it. There is a popular character with this situation.. Or you should read The Underground Railroad ) .  In a nutshell, who the ascendants are.

if you are black or white doesn't depend on your appearence, but it depends on whether your parents were considered white or black.

In Brazil ( same continent ) , for example, it's the opposite.

You 're part of a particular group depending on how you're physically. If you are white in appearance you are herd, otherwise morenos etc

So it sounds incredible but the same person who is black in the United States can be white in Brasil . It is  because  the criterion is kinship in the first case , while it's the  in the   'physical aspect that makes the belonging in the second.
So , race is just a cultural contruction.


(interesting thread though,I'll look it.)

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Post by McLewis on Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:52 pm

Ehh, I'm pretty sure if I go to Brazil, I'll probably get treated differently because of my American accent and really shitty Portuguese first and my skin color 2nd. I highly doubt I'd be able to pass as a white Brazilian though. Would I be ok in the favelas if I kept my mouth shut and I got caught in the middle of a raid? Probably not. I'd probably be considered just some other poor black person that's probably up to no good in the eyes of the military or the police or both. Because they'll see my skin color first (and thus my race) and everything else will take a backseat.

You make good points though, Robes. At our core, humans are naturally drawn to similarities more than differences. It just so happens that skin color is one of those similarities that draws people together. Meld that together with geographical and cultural history and you have "race".

White people hated my ancestors because when they saw their dark skin, they saw creatures (not humans) who were lesser than themselves trying to have the same things as them. There was something inherently wrong with that to them. There is a reason racist white people often see black people as no better than monkeys or apes. It's the closest thing they compare us to because that's how they see us: As lesser evolved beings who are trying to imitate humanity, but haven't quite done so, to humorous effect. The skin color was simply the most obvious indicator of these perceived differences. They hated my ancestors so much that they never even tried to look past the skin color. They saw no point in it. Because their ancestors saw no point in it. It's no mistake that reformed white supremacists are reformed simply by......talking to the very people they hate. Their worlds shatter because the perceptions that they were indoctrinated with shatter just by having simple conversations with these people who are supposed to be inferior and subhuman.

We're a product of our environments. It's the Clayton Bigsby effect, I guess you could call it. If you grow up your whole life blind and are raised to to be a white supremacist, even if your skin is black and no one ever really tells you this (of if they do, you don't believe it...in Clayton's case)....all you have left is what you were taught to believe about black people, regardless of whether it was right or wrong. It just....is. That's how a lot of white people in the Deep South here in the US were brought up 5 decades ago. It's how some of them still are to this very day. These people interact with black people on virtually no levels. There's absolutely no contact with them other than what they are told about them, read about them or what they see in characters on TV. This feeds the indoctrination, which fuels the racism.
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Post by Thimmy on Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:39 pm

Have you watched that documentary about a black police officer in the US who became friends with, and through that friendship, later managed to reform the former leader of the Ku Klux Klan, McLewis? I thought it was interesting, and I think it's pretty fascinating how much the courage and initiative of one individual can change groups of people with a completely different ideology. I'll link to it if I can find it on Youtube.

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Post by Unique on Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:14 am

The KKK brain wash kids from a young age to think and act like they do. Pretty much like religion.

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Post by Unique on Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:18 am

The thing I do notice in topics like this is people tend to look at it like black people love white people and are not racist in any way yet white people hate black people and are racist to them. It's like white people invented racism and are the only racist people on earth.

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Post by Nishankly on Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:51 am

@Unique wrote:The thing I do notice in topics like this is people tend to look at it like black people love white people and are not racist in any way yet white people hate black people and are racist to them. It's like white people invented racism and are the only racist people on earth.


I don't believe white people invented racism but for this modern era we live in, white people of the old ages, regardless of whether you support them or not, did things which were inhumane at the earliest part of remembrance. Sure you can be like "eh fuck you, I don't believe in it or I am not responsible for my ancestors etc etc" but the world we live in where you are enjoying the plus points while someone like me suffers just because I am brown.
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Post by Nishankly on Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:54 am

I mean sure I do blame Genghis Khan for racism where he plundered eastern Europe but right now I get escorted into a 3x3 cell for questioning around people with guns just because I landed in Estonia for tourism as the only brown person in a flight. (Real story already mentioned in GL)

But that's just me and my only question is that what have I done? Maybe if I was white, I wouldn't have this problem?
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Post by Robespierre on Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:05 am

@Nishankly wrote:
@Unique wrote:The thing I do notice in topics like this is people tend to look at it like black people love white people and are not racist in any way yet white people hate black people and are racist to them. It's like white people invented racism and are the only racist people on earth.


I don't believe white people invented racism but for this modern era we live in, white people of the old ages, regardless of whether you support them or not, did things which were inhumane at the earliest part of remembrance. Sure you can be like "eh fuck you, I don't believe in it or I am not responsible for my ancestors etc etc" but the world we live in where you are enjoying the plus points while someone like me suffers just because I am brown.


I think it's true indeed

Racism theories find their own development in the growth phase of capitalism:
in fact development of technology and scientific knowledge should have showed  the superiority of white Europeans over other populations.

in '700 Linnaeus  ( a Swedish scientist ) was the first one to rank humans in six  varieties: American, European, Asian, African, wild (ethnic groups outside civilization), monstrous.  

About nature  he focuses on the difference
between  Europeans  : rated as intelligent - governed by laws;  Africans : negligent - governed by the impulse;  Asians : melancholy -  ruled by opinions; Native Americans- stubborn governed by traditions

Then it arrives ' 800, the century of nationalism and colonialism, and racism based on superiority and purity  of white man catch on  definitely ...

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Post by Nishankly on Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:11 am

@Robespierre wrote:
@Nishankly wrote:
@Unique wrote:The thing I do notice in topics like this is people tend to look at it like black people love white people and are not racist in any way yet white people hate black people and are racist to them. It's like white people invented racism and are the only racist people on earth.


I don't believe white people invented racism but for this modern era we live in, white people of the old ages, regardless of whether you support them or not, did things which were inhumane at the earliest part of remembrance. Sure you can be like "eh fuck you, I don't believe in it or I am not responsible for my ancestors etc etc" but the world we live in where you are enjoying the plus points while someone like me suffers just because I am brown.


I think it's true indeed

Racism theories find their own development in the growth phase of capitalism:
in fact development of technology and scientific knowledge should have showed  the superiority of white Europeans over other populations.

in '700 Linnaeus  ( a Swedish scientist ) was the first one to rank humans in six  varieties: American, European, Asian, African, wild (ethnic groups outside civilization), monstrous.  

About nature  he focuses on the difference
between  Europeans  : rated as intelligent - governed by laws;  Africans : negligent - governed by the impulse;  Asians : melancholy -  ruled by opinions; Native Americans- stubborn governed by traditions

Then it arrives ' 800, the century of nationalism and colonialism, and racism based on superiority and purity  of white man catch on  definitely ..

The major issue is the fact outside these white populations, which of these civilizations had a chance to grow on their own merit for past 200 years where people actually started to think with respect to the parameters measured in this current world?

None. So yes there will obviously be a difference in opinion and approach and this will amalgamate one day but for now no chance since the rest of 180 countries are playing catch up.
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Post by Nishankly on Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:41 pm

I am really getting tired with Eastern Europe in general and I include Italy in this regardless. Bratislava last week and now Bulgaria as well. Croatia, Montenegro and Serbia always at the top.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/50050477

These guys need to be removed from Football for them to realize how irrelevant they are in the scope of the world outside sport.

Its an everyday occurrence now, enough is enough. Ban these teams and nations.
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Post by Young Kaz on Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:58 am

The players should have walked off.

Simple as that.
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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:09 am

Forget the fact that it's a disgusting and unbelievably backward-looking thing to do, somebody please tell me, does this guy look like someone who would survive living in Nazi Germany in 1940?
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Guy looks like a Tunisian classmate I had in college. Maybe he should do a DNA test, I'm sure he'll be surprised with the result.

As for this whole racism thing, I'm still struggling to understand why Eastern European countries tend to be more racist than their Western counterparts.

Of course it would be wrong to generalize, and I'm sure there are many decent folk over there, just like there are many obnoxious, racist ones in Western Europe. But I still fail to understand why intolerance and close-mindedness in Europe seem to grow stronger as you move closer towards its Eastern part. Is it education, or lack thereof? Is it a cultural thing? It can't be poverty because there are many poor countries that aren't nearly as racist as those guys.

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Post by Thimmy on Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:12 am

I’m sure there are many factors that play in to it, but lack of information as well as a lack of multi-culturalism are probably the main ones. Not being informed or judged for blatant racism, creates an environment where being racist is not so much considered to be a big deal. Ironically, where I grew up, people typically didn’t feel restricted in talking down Eastern European immigrants because race was not a factor, and there was less education regarding discrimination or xenophobia towards white people.

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