Re: Pep Guardiola - King of the Carabao Club

by futbol_bill Thu May 18, 2023 11:48 pm

RealGunner wrote:
futbol_bill wrote:I like to see a comparison of what he spent over the 7 years vs your club along side trophies obtained in that period. You probably won’t do it, but I sure such a comparison will make your comment embarrassing!

I am not a pep fan, but I think we should give credit when it’s due. The Haaland purchase moved them to another level and Pep after getting out coached in first game made several small adjustments in his strategy and as a result allowed the dominance of this team to excel.

What kind of a stupid post is this? Obviously when city who have spent over 1.2bn since 2008 is going to win more trophies than a club who has spent half of that?

7 years.

€1,239,000,000 spent on players

-€667,000,000 net spend.

Hardly a stupid post when you look at net spend which is club’s actual outlay and especially when you add the other side of the equation! What trophies has ManU won in comparison to City! They may have been like ManU in early acquisitions in that a lot didn’t work but they corrected it when not only little expenditures, they actually made money. My question then is what has ManU got to show for their expenditures!

by Myesyats Fri May 19, 2023 9:28 am

Last 5 years net spend

Chelsea: £-654.21m
Manchester United: £-540.23m
Arsenal: £-485.64m
West Ham: £-356.5m
Newcastle: £-351.89m
Tottenham: £-332.48m
Wolves: £-276.55m
Aston Villa: £-271.24m
Liverpool: £-254.19m
Manchester City: £-224.97m

You could have nearly -700m net spend in 5 years and be fighting relegation, @Chelsea :coffee:

by Firenze Fri May 19, 2023 11:15 am

115 financial irregularities m8

numbers are cooked and under the table payments

everything Pep's won at City will be stripped

football heritage will prevail

by Thimmy Fri May 19, 2023 12:52 pm

Firenze wrote:115 financial irregularities m8

numbers are cooked and under the table payments

everything Pep's won at City will be stripped

football heritage will prevail

Yes, but it looks like RG was the head of that investigation process hmm

by Myesyats Fri May 19, 2023 8:33 pm

They’ll get a 2-window transfer ban, exclusion from CL for one season or 20m fine. I find it hard to believe they’ll get stripped. But that’s all Man Utd fans have left , dreaming is free !

by Casciavit Sat May 20, 2023 7:37 pm

Won his 5th PL title

And first team to 3peat the PL since Fergie's United (07-09)

Next objective would be to be the first team to 4peat the PL in PL history.

by Thimmy Sat May 20, 2023 10:18 pm

I imagine becoming the second PL team to win the treble is his next goal. Seems like a pretty realistic target with Inter and Man United being the obstacles. No offense intended towards Inter Laughing

by Casciavit Sat May 20, 2023 10:49 pm

Yeah they're the favorites to complete the treble. That being said even though I expect them to beat Inter, I don't think it'll be an easy game.

Inter will play in a low block in a 5-3-2. Two strong forwards up top, technicians in midfield, and a wingback in Dumfries who can overload the box.

It's not out of the realm of possibility that they give a surprise sucker punch to City the way Lyon and Chelsea did in 2020 and 2021 with their back 5 systems. Inter has experience doing it this season against Barcelona during the group stages.

Of course this City team is better than their previous iterations and Xavi's Barca, but I don't think it'll be a walk in the park victory.

by Myesyats Sun May 21, 2023 1:01 am

"And it's no coincidence I don't think that the 2 teams (Barca and City) you're talking about there are managed by Guardiola. Yes, people can talk about great players. I've played in a team with a collection of the greatest players - it doesn't necessarily mean success. This man is an absolute genius, tactically he's off the scale." - Michael Owen

I think the real question is who'll challenge them next season to the title. Arsenal will be hard pressed to repeat that title push. I see them cruising next year in the league aka the real farmer's league at this point

by Thimmy Sun May 21, 2023 9:06 am

I doubt they'll cruise through the league. Like Cas pointed out, it would be the first 4-streak league win in history, and there's a reason for that. Players lose motivation when they win something several times, and they also grow older in the process. A lot of people already seem to have forgotten how poor City were for a while after the loss to Liverpool, as well as after the turn of the year. Several of their players just didn't seem up for the task, and their winning streak ended as a result of that dip in form from several of their players. KDB had a largely poor start to the season as well, which is something he admitted himself recently. He turns 32 a month from now.

by BarcaLearning Sun May 21, 2023 6:19 pm

I hope the players stay motivated to do the 4 in a row... that would importantly mean SMASHING ALL OF MAN U's record and become the new king of Manchester even more so altering history Very Happy

Im sure that would pain all of Man U so much Very Happy

The players are aging so hoping Pep will know the right young players to slowly replace or rotate with De Bruyne n Gundugan? I think the rest of the team are mostly pretty young or not old yet so that shouldnt be an issue.

With other competing teams in various stages of development Man C should still be able to do it comfortably as long as they stay motivated.

Top 4 feels even more difficult now for the rest of the teams, u got Arsenal now back, Newcastle the new player, prolly Spurs drop out n Chelsea also if they cant bounce back with Poch. Then u got Man U, Liverpool, wow, the EPL getting even better Very Happy

by Firenze Sun May 21, 2023 7:18 pm

Manchester City are Premier League champions for the fifth time in six years. But questions remain about how the club does business. 6 mins on the reasons why. Produced by Michael Cox, Floyd Cush, Mary Fuller. https://t.co/wPvqvsOcCN pic.twitter.com/MEuvtRv7Qo
— Ros Atkins (@BBCRosAtkins) May 20, 2023

by Myesyats Sun May 21, 2023 8:17 pm

This will probably drag on for another couple of years with Man City's 5k-a-day lawyers working overtime. The funniest part will be when City get a point deduction in one of the next seasons but still win the league Laughing

by BarcaLearning Sun May 21, 2023 8:22 pm

Hmmm, lately the EPL thread is full of accusers of Man C malpractice n La Liga the same complaining Real dont get ref favours anymore regarding Vini.... coincidence these mainly from the fans of the 2 clubs I hate? Man U n Real Very Happy

Anyway, I dunno how it can be stopped though, football has always been corrupt n money rules, just like many other fields I guess. It means the clubs can attract the big stars blah blah... even Fergies era Man U were definitely like the richest or the popular club at least in England n were able to buy attract the best stars compared with rivals?

by FennecFox7 Sun May 21, 2023 9:28 pm

Really hope city win the cup for peps sake. City have very likeable players too.

by farfan Sun May 21, 2023 10:49 pm

Myesyats wrote:Last 5 years net spend

Chelsea: £-654.21m
Manchester United: £-540.23m
Arsenal: £-485.64m
West Ham: £-356.5m
Newcastle: £-351.89m
Tottenham: £-332.48m
Wolves: £-276.55m
Aston Villa: £-271.24m
Liverpool: £-254.19m
Manchester City: £-224.97m

Why does this list keep popping up as some sort of counterargument to City's financial doping accusations? It completely ignores the context of how things got to that point. City's owners have injected more capital and spent more on squad building than everyone in the league for a over a decade.

Teams like this accumulate valuable assets overtime and will eventually achieve a positive balance between transfer expenditure and income as said assets are gradually phased out for newer ones. It's not like teams can just keep spending ad infinitum without sales becoming part of the equation at some point. Chelsea have also achieved this balance in the last years of the Abramovich era.

City's positive transfer balance this year isn't reflective of frugality or some brilliant money ball strategy, it just highlights their ability to offload some of the old expensive toys they paid big bucks for years ago (Sterling, Gabriel Jesus) in favor of a new expensive toy (Haaland). Teams like West Ham don't have such assets which is why investing in a couple of positions is enough to put them in the red.

by Pedram Mon May 22, 2023 12:11 am

BarcaLearning wrote:Hmmm, lately the EPL thread is full of accusers of Man C malpractice n La Liga the same complaining Real dont get ref favours anymore regarding Vini.... coincidence these mainly from the fans of the 2 clubs I hate? Man U n Real

Anyway, I dunno how it can be stopped though, football has always been corrupt n money rules, just like many other fields I guess. It means the clubs can attract the big stars blah blah... even Fergies era Man U were definitely like the richest or the popular club at least in England n were able to buy attract the best stars compared with rivals?

This fucking moron Laughing

by Helmer Mon May 22, 2023 9:31 am

The amount of trophies and dominance Pep's team had in last 10-15 seasons, has the time come to announce him as a truly great and one of a kind in the football world ? One last thing needed will be the CL win this season ?
The perspective "of the amount of money he has spent and financial backing he has had" makes sense. But he can work only with what club he chooses to go to. I am not a fan of his football at all apart from his team with Haaland but still we can't just ignore his achievements.

by Casciavit Mon May 22, 2023 3:30 pm

He's been an all-time great the moment he won a treble with Barca in 2009 and revolutionized the way football is played. He changed the game.

He's maintained his standing by winning trophies everywhere he goes. He's stuck with his main principles that made him so popular, but has adapted to modern trends as all great coaches should.

Even trophies aside his biggest contribution will be his influence. He's changed the game at a grassroots level. Watch a PL youth game from 2016 vs now. See how many of them are playing with the same principles he vouched for. I'm not a fan of seeing youth players play a strict positional game, but that's what they're doing now.

The footballing world has been copying him since 2009. They started off thinking it was just tiki taka, building from the back, and high pressing. Then they thought the genius was from the overload from the false 9. Then the Germans found out Pep hated roaming and focused more on rigid positioning to the point that he used a positional grid in training. Then when Pep came to England they saw his clear in possession shape of 2-3-5/3-2-5 and have been trying to find ways to allocate their own players into such shapes.

If you look at his counter parts, just read about how many current coaches say they've been inspired by his football. The new crop of top young coaches are all fanboys. Most of his former players all say he's the coach they learned the most from. The former players who actually became coaches seem to be doing well, and when you watch their teams you can see his influence on them. That shows he actually passed on footballing principles and wasn't a glorified motivational merchant.

His PL rivals copy his blueprint, but he stays one step ahead. Klopp nabbed the 3-2-5 shape that involves a FB coming inside. Arteta's been trying to make his own version of City 2.0 by using their bench players. Hell nowadays Pep doesn't like fullbacks and has been playing CB's there. Instead of having a FB venture into midfield he's having one of his CB's do so, and I don't recall seeing that before. The Libero role did exist decades ago, but it involved a CB carrying the ball forward, not a CB receiving the ball in midfield with his back facing the opposition. His ability to find novel solutions makes him one of the best, and I'm sure you'll see teams copy that solution because a CB going into midfield is better for defensive transition than a FB.

by Casciavit Mon May 22, 2023 3:32 pm

Really his one stain on his CV is the lack of CL in the last decade. That's a fair sticking point. That being said, I do believe he's getting over that hump. He now understands the importance of fundamentals in high stake CL matches. He confirmed this last night on Sky. He's binned the chokers (Jesus/Sterling) and meme defenders (Cancelo/Zinchenko/Laporte) and has replaced them with killers (Haaland/Alvarez) and genuine defenders (Dias/Ake/Stones).

Signing Haaland also helps them with the CL. He gives them more variety in different game states. You can't dominate a game for 90 min in CL and you'll have to sit back. Haaland gives them that transitional threat they didn't have before. The defenders play better knowing that that if they clear the ball they can get it to Haaland to alleviate pressure on them.

I also think these City players are close to hitting their prime. Pep mostly signed 20-23 year olds in 17/18. Those players are 28+ now. Perfect blend of experience and youth.

I also think the lack of away goals which led to 3 surprise losses (Chelsea 12, Bayern 16, Spurs 19) aren't going to be an issue anymore. He'll feel more confident in playing boring away games because he can now play kamikaze football at home without that repercussion.

Honestly if City beat Inter, they have all the ingredients to win another CL or 2 in the next 2/3 years. It's just a matter of getting over that first mountain.

by Casciavit Mon May 22, 2023 3:37 pm

The media has already been giving him the GOAT manager shouts recently, but I suspect that narrative will become stronger if he beats Fergie's record for most trophies won.

I believe Fergie is at 49, and Pep is at 34/35. He should beat this in a few seasons especially if he wins the CL.

I feel like giving anyone the GOAT manager is a bit much because players dictate results at the end of the day. Also everyone has their own criteria of what makes a great manager. He'll always have the chequebook accusations for instance. But imo what he's done in the last 15 years definetly puts him up there as one of the greatest.

by El Gunner Mon May 22, 2023 4:22 pm

Casciavit wrote:He's been an all-time great the moment he won a treble with Barca in 2009 and revolutionized the way football is played. He changed the game.

damn Cas, get off the guy's dick Laughing

by Casciavit Mon May 22, 2023 4:30 pm

Nah bro I'm serious.

It's the same way with Sacchi in 89/90. He gave that initial shock to the footballing world even though the rest of his coaching career outside those two years wasn't much to write about.

Even if Pep had flopped post-Barca his ideas were ingrained into the game by then. Maybe I should've used the word influential instead of greatest. But that's the point I'm trying to make. He put his name in the footballing history books from then.

by Myesyats Mon May 22, 2023 7:53 pm

They won't remember the thropies we won, they will remember the way we played.

The legacy is that we’ve had one hell of a time and for many years the fans will remember a generation of players who scored lots of goals and conceded very few, and that we won lots of things and won very well, and people should remember that. It would be a good book.

People enjoy watching us today, it is enough. That is why we are here, people remember in 10-15 years with a smile and say how nice was that period that we had seven, eight or nine years together, that is the biggest compliment, better than any trophy and anything that you can give.

by BarcaLearning Mon May 22, 2023 8:08 pm

Pedram wrote:
BarcaLearning wrote:Hmmm, lately the EPL thread is full of accusers of Man C malpractice n La Liga the same complaining Real dont get ref favours anymore regarding Vini.... coincidence these mainly from the fans of the 2 clubs I hate? Man U n Real

Anyway, I dunno how it can be stopped though, football has always been corrupt n money rules, just like many other fields I guess. It means the clubs can attract the big stars blah blah... even Fergies era Man U were definitely like the richest or the popular club at least in England n were able to buy attract the best stars compared with rivals?

This fucking moron

Aww come on u lamer, stop taking cheap lame shots as usual n actually say something concrete? Otherwise why post at all Pfft XD

by futbol_bill Tue May 23, 2023 1:57 am

Naive one, take a good read of what you just responded and then reread your initial post! You should find you are actually speaking to yourself! Pedram’s response was perfect!!,

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