Re: OFFICIAL : Seedorf appointed Milan manager...aaaand sacked

by iftikhar Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:41 am

Given the trust I have in our management though, I don't think we'll do it.

What is your ideal team from the current squad (disregard injury, suspension etc.)! Do you consider that good enough for finishing 3rd!!

by S Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:43 am

I would agree.I was kinda semi trolling there.Roma could well be selling some of their best players in the summer and considering they'll have European competition next year,its going to be pretty difficult for them to retain their current position.

I have been firm about Napoli though from the beginning.There's has been growing project and with a few more good additions,i think they can challenge for the title.Also,their club are running on profits and not in danger of needing to sell anyone.

But i was merely just responding to the Juventus comparison.Milan do need solid investments if they want to reach the top just like Juventus did when they spent large amount of money.

Top 3 is realistic goal though.

by dostoevsky Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:10 am

@iftikhar: Our best team is, in my opinion, capable at least of challenging for third spot.

The issue with creating a set first eleven is that in order to get the best of Mario Balotelli, one of two paths must be taken. As Mario does not function as a typical Italian centre forward, providing a reference point up front in possession, our game must accomodate his movements in one of two ways. The first is to provide a man to occupying the central defenders and play off the last man in order to free up space for Mario, such as Pazzini has done with a considerable degree of success in the past. The other is to provide two genuine wide threats to stretch the opposition and again take away attention from Balotelli who currently is the only player who receives attention from the entire backline when we play.

Last season, Boateng played a unique role within the squad in our 4-3-3, possessing the physical dynamism to effectively play the RW role whilst dropping into midfield to facilitate possession in our own half and tracking the opposition fullback. Prince is a player with limited vision, suspect defensive skills and far too high an opinion of himself, however his ability to provide tactical balance allowed Balotelli and El Shaarawy to function as they did last year. Whilst replacing his talent may not be a particularly difficult task, players such as Kaka and Honda can't effectively operate from a wide position, whilst Taarabt must still demonstrate his worth.

I'm sorry for the lengthy explanation, however I wanted to justify two suggestions, as I feel that it is not simply enough to produce a starting eleven without putting it into the context of our struggles and the tactical weaknesses of the team.

My backline would be:

Abbiati
Abate---Rami---Mexes/Bonera---De Sciglio

Ahead of them, I would rely, depending on the form of individuals in the front line and the opposition, on the following line-ups:

Montolivo---De Jong---Poli
Taarabt/Balo---Balo/Pazzini---El Shaarawy

Montolivo---De Jong
Taarabt/Balo---Honda/Kaka---El Shaarawy
Balo/Pazzini

@S: Agreed that Napoli are likely to prove a stable fixture at the top for the next few years given their extremely healthy financial position and De Laurentis' enthusiasm for the team has shown to be tempered by patience and trust in the leaders of the technical side of the project.

I even consider Roma unlikely to suffer any serious setback, though I'm unsure as to whether they will be able to take a major step forward in finding another potent attacking force and addressing their left back position. As long as they're stable rather than advancing, they can be caught in my opinion, with good planning, given the advantage we will yield due to not playing European competition for a year. This Roma side has yet to be stretched by an intense and busy schedule and many a side in Serie A have struggled to back-up their Champions League qualification the following year in recent times.

Significant money will certainly be needed to reach the top of Italian football again, however in the short term I believe that slashing our quite frankly preposterous wage bill and reducing the squad size by about five or six members should help us put up the necessary capital for the next transfer market. The major issue will be sustainability as we will have a very short window during which we can recover from a poor season. One season without Champions League revenue is damaging however it can be weathered. Should this become a trend then we will be unable to reverse it without serious investment.

by Forza Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:20 pm

To add to what Dos has said, the fundamentals of our squad are decent. The whole team does not need to be re-built like Juve's. What we have is a situation where there is a lot of deadwood chewing up our wage-bill. If that rubbish is thrown out, it would more than allow for the purchase of quality players. We have the core of a good team in Montolivo, De Sciglio, SES, Balo, De Jong and Poli. But we need quality in all positions to compete. Pazzini, Abate, Rami, Honda, Kaka and maybe Taarabt can contribute to the future of the club. However, almost every other player in our squad is not up to standard.

by iftikhar Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:35 pm

Thanks dostoevsky. I don’t mind the lengthy preview. In fact, I prefer reading insights from you guys than those from so-called ‘pundits’. I find them more informative, probably because as a fan you are more focused on the real problems & prospects. Now if you don’t mind, I will indulge in a lengthy post too.

Going by your explanation, let’s constitute a starting XI & bench:

--------Abbiati----------
Abate-Rami-Mexes-Sciglio
Montolivo---DeJong---Poli
Taarabt—Balo--Shaarawy

Bench: Bonera, Honda, Kaka, Pazzini.

Beyond them I think you will also fancy the likes of Zapata, Essien & Robinho. Five of these players are past-30 and been patchy with their form & fitness. Shaarawy will return from a lengthy lay-off and Taarabt has some attitude problem. In the worst case scenario, you could be left with a very poor or inexperienced bench or having weak-link in the starting XI for a considerable period. None of these will help your chances of Champions League qualifications.

What I’m trying to say is perhaps you need a broader timeline. May be next season you get rid of the absolute garbage, buy couple of young players and promote (with considerable games) few from the youth. Then the following season you replace some of the aging players and few more via transfer & youth. Don’t know if I have made it any clearer. IMO your squad may look solid enough for a push but one period of catastrophe due to some inherent weakness may ruin your season.

by Forza Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:26 am

iftikhar wrote:Thanks dostoevsky. I don’t mind the lengthy preview. In fact, I prefer reading insights from you guys than those from so-called ‘pundits’. I find them more informative, probably because as a fan you are more focused on the real problems & prospects. Now if you don’t mind, I will indulge in a lengthy post too.

Going by your explanation, let’s constitute a starting XI & bench:

--------Abbiati----------
Abate-Rami-Mexes-Sciglio
Montolivo---DeJong---Poli
Taarabt—Balo--Shaarawy

Bench: Bonera, Honda, Kaka, Pazzini.

Beyond them I think you will also fancy the likes of Zapata, Essien & Robinho. Five of these players are past-30 and been patchy with their form & fitness. Shaarawy will return from a lengthy lay-off and Taarabt has some attitude problem. In the worst case scenario, you could be left with a very poor or inexperienced bench or having weak-link in the starting XI for a considerable period. None of these will help your chances of Champions League qualifications.

What I’m trying to say is perhaps you need a broader timeline. May be next season you get rid of the absolute garbage, buy couple of young players and promote (with considerable games) few from the youth. Then the following season you replace some of the aging players and few more via transfer & youth. Don’t know if I have made it any clearer. IMO your squad may look solid enough for a push but one period of catastrophe due to some inherent weakness may ruin your season.

Zapata, Essien and Robinho are 3 of the players who must be sold in order for this club to move forward. Zapata is terrible, Essien is finished and Robinho is either injured or playing and missing sitters. No thanks.

Abbiati is not at Serie A level any more. A new GK will need to be bought, the prime candidate being Mattia Perin of Genoa. Mexes is well past his best too. Whilst he is capable of playing the occasional solid game, far too often he is exposed by the pace of modern-day forwards. He is also a red card liability.

If I were building a dream squad for next season, without being unrealistic and breaking the bank, here's what I'd like to see:

4-3-3

Perin
Abate - Rami - Paletta - De Sciglio
Montolivo - De Jong - Poli
Cerci ---- Balo ---- SES

Bench: Gabriel (GK), Pacifico (CB), Cristante (CM), Honda, Kaka, Saponara (AM), Taarabt, Petagna (ST), Pazzini
*In Serie A benches are comprised of 12 players.

The three purchases I would make are Perin (Genoa), Paletta (Parma) and Cerci (Torino) - all of whom we were linked with last transfer season, but did not purchase. Rami (Valencia) is on loan and his contract will need to exercise our option to buy, same as Taarabt (QPR). If Abate should leave, I would like to see Albertazzi (Hellas Verona, Milan youth product) return to the club.

I would abandon the 4-2-3-1 because I don't think it suits the players we have at our disposal. However, if Seedorf did continue with that formation, I would like it to look something like this:

4-3-3

Perin
Abate - Rami - Paletta - De Sciglio
Montolivo - De Jong
Cerci ---- Balo ---- SES
Pazzini

Here is the real problem...

Players that need to leave or be sold: Abbiati, Amelia (GK), Coppola (GK), Bonera, Constant, Mexes, Silvestre, Zaccardo, Zapata, Birsa, Emanuelson, Essien, Muntari, Robinho.

That's 14 worthless players chewing up wages. Some players will be easier to get rid of than others:

Abbiati: Contract expires end of season
Amelia: Contract expires 2015
Coppola: Contract expires end of season
Bonera: Contract expires 2015
Constant: Contract expires 2016
Mexes: Contract expires 2015
Silvestre: On loan from Inter, will go back at the end of the season
Zaccardo: Contract expires 2016
Zapata: Contract expires 2016
Birsa: Contract expires 2016
Emanuelson: Contract expires end of season
Essien: Contract expires 2015
Muntari: Contract expires 2015
Robinho: Contract expires 2016

We cannot afford Mexes to remain at the club on 4m euro wages or Robinho at 2.5m euro wages.

by Kaladin Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:37 am

Great post Forza, though i don't see Essien leaving in summer. I'm sure he'd want to collect dat pension fund

by iftikhar Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:26 pm

@Forza, I don't see any club willing to sniff those players. MLS, ME or China may hold some interest in Mexes, Essien or Robinho. Some mid to lower level clubs might have some interest but they will be scared away by the wages.

Also, a management with the vision to sign Silvestre or Essien or the IQ to extend with Muntari or Robinho will not suddenly wake up and be aggressive to sort it.

by Kaladin Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:52 pm

iftikhar wrote:
Also, a management with the vision to sign Silvestre or Essien or the IQ to extend with Muntari or Robinho will not suddenly wake up and be aggressive to sort it.

No, but with the inclusion of Barbara Berlusconi and the addition of a sporting director in the summer (Braida is gone, in case you are wondering. And we are looking for replacements, Sogliano of Hellas and Bertra of Atletico seem to be the candidates for the job) things are bound to change. Galliani no longer will hold the power to do as he wishes, you might say that his role is might be bit more restricted.

by Forza Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:47 am

iftikhar wrote:@Forza, I don't see any club willing to sniff those players. MLS, ME or China may hold some interest in Mexes, Essien or Robinho. Some mid to lower level clubs might have some interest but they will be scared away by the wages.

Also, a management with the vision to sign Silvestre or Essien or the IQ to extend with Muntari or Robinho will not suddenly wake up and be aggressive to sort it.

Management with vision is the key point. That's where any change begins and ends.

I can easily see Robinho going back to Brazil, Mexes to Monaco and Essien to Turkey or something like that if our management know what's good for the club.

by S Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:05 am

Silvio Berlusconi is reportedly set to discuss Clarence Seedorf’s future as Milan Coach and he could be out before the end of the season.

The Dutchman has endured a difficult start to life on the Rossonero bench since replacing Max Allegri and a run of four consecutive defeats in all competitions has heightened fan protests.

The Corriere dello Sport lead suggestions that Seedorf’s position as Coach is up for discussion at the club, with President Berlusconi reportedly having called Vice-President Adriano Galliani to talk over the crisis yesterday.

Berlusconi is set to meet with daughter and director Barbara later on Monday and it is speculated that a decision on Seedorf will be made, with rumours split between handing the 37-year-old next week’s game with Lazio to prove himself, or the rest of the season to at least secure Europa League qualification.

It is understood that should Seedorf be removed from his position, Pippo Inzaghi would be handed control.

by Forza Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:33 pm

Don't see Seedorf getting sacked until end of season at earliest, and that's if things go really, really, really bad (i.e. much worse than they are now). Allegri was awful this season and it took over half the season before he was sacked. Also, if Seedorf makes it to the end of the season, I expect him to get all of next season with new players to prove his worth as a coach.

by MJ Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:40 pm

Think he should get Summer to turn things around. Understand the sentiment going around but how much worse would it be to destroy the players' confidence in management by sacking yet another coach in the same season?

If he's incompetent in the market then he'll be off and rightly so, but he's yet to get the chance to clearout and implement the type of team he wants to see play.

by Onyx Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:13 pm

Why would they even consider sacking him? The quality of AC Milan's squad is nowhere near what it needs to be in order to compete at the highest level. Can't see any manager doing any better. He should be allowed to choose which players he buys this summer and then next season he should be judged.

In terms of which positions they need to improve. I'd say at the least they need to get a GK, a fullback, a CB and a winger.

by •MilanDevil• Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:20 pm

Berlusconi just confirmed that he will be here next season. Source: @Milanello

by elitedam Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:13 pm

Come back to Rio, Seedorf. There is still time.

by M99 Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:32 am

AC Milan president Silvio Berlusconi has given Clarence Seedorf a vote of confidence after a poor start to the Dutchman's coaching career at San Siro.

The Rossoneri suffered a sixth consecutive defeat in all competitions when they were beaten 4-2 by Serie A rivals Parma on Sunday, with the latest in a string of setbacks sparking a fan protest outside the ground at full-time.

The pressure is now mounting on Seedorf, even though he only took over in January, but Berlusconi insists that he still has the utmost faith in the rookie boss.

“Seedorf is not up for discussion; he will remain our coach even next year,” Berlusconi said in a statement on ANSA.

The former Italian Prime Minister admitted that his team’s form this season has been unacceptable but argued that Seedorf is not to blame for the current situation.

"Milan is a team built badly,” Berlusconi added.

by dostoevsky Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:08 am

iftikhar wrote:Thanks dostoevsky. I don’t mind the lengthy preview. In fact, I prefer reading insights from you guys than those from so-called ‘pundits’. I find them more informative, probably because as a fan you are more focused on the real problems & prospects. Now if you don’t mind, I will indulge in a lengthy post too.

Going by your explanation, let’s constitute a starting XI & bench:

--------Abbiati----------
Abate-Rami-Mexes-Sciglio
Montolivo---DeJong---Poli
Taarabt—Balo--Shaarawy

Bench: Bonera, Honda, Kaka, Pazzini.

Beyond them I think you will also fancy the likes of Zapata, Essien & Robinho. Five of these players are past-30 and been patchy with their form & fitness. Shaarawy will return from a lengthy lay-off and Taarabt has some attitude problem. In the worst case scenario, you could be left with a very poor or inexperienced bench or having weak-link in the starting XI for a considerable period. None of these will help your chances of Champions League qualifications.

What I’m trying to say is perhaps you need a broader timeline. May be next season you get rid of the absolute garbage, buy couple of young players and promote (with considerable games) few from the youth. Then the following season you replace some of the aging players and few more via transfer & youth. Don’t know if I have made it any clearer. IMO your squad may look solid enough for a push but one period of catastrophe due to some inherent weakness may ruin your season.

Sorry for the delay in my reply, I've been busy, but I appreciate your response.

Firstly I'd like to clarify that I quite agree with you as regards the timeline, in both an ideal and a realistic case. In an ideal case, I agree that the team posted is not one that is by any means guaranteed Champions League qualification, though I would argue that it is one capable of competing for the place. Qualification is likely to depend upon the common factors such as injuries, head to heads with direct competition and the ability of our rivals to handle busier European schedules. As Surag has repeatedly stressed, extremely strong investment would be required to establish qualification as a certainty, however the aim of comparability to our rivals is one that can be achieved given more modest funds. From there, even if we do not achieve our primary goals, we at least give ourselves a fighting chance throughout the season.

Touching briefly on Forza's post, his point concerning our depth is one I agree with. The likes of Essien and Robinho can not be relied in the future, particularly given Seedorf's wish to establish our dominance in games through a high tempo pressing game. Both players have lost their physical dynamism and stand little hope of keeping pace with the rest of the squad as we gradually develop a higher standard of fitness in training. At the same time however, it is necessary that our locker room not suffer from a lack of experience, a charge that might well be made concerning the potential squad he details. Cristante is a youngster who I expect to be given greater responsibility within the squad in the coming twelve months as an understudy to Montolivo, however we are otherwise left in a delicate situation regarding the changing of the guard, a product of poor management in previous years, particularly in defence. The club will be forced to balance the collection of central defenders currently on our books who are all around the age of 30 with the careers of promising youngsters such as Salamon and Vergera. I personally believe that we shall see the likes of Muntari and Bonera continue for at least another year, however as you said, we can set the goal of getting rid of those who are absolutely inadequate and such others can still prove capable of aiding the squad during times of crisis. Many players in our squad are seen as a problem largely due to the amount of game time they get and their wages rather than their actual ability to affect games. Our depth has proven a huge issue this season - except for the number 10 position where we're suddenly overflowing after years of having no one - however it is a threat that must always be considered with a question mark. Many sides in Serie A have managed to string together a fantastic league season with a very stable first eleven when not fighting in Europe, when better sides have been barely able to field a team. Granted, we may well remain at the mercy of injuries, however it can often prove an unavoidable issue and there is only so much one can plan for.

Of course, the realistic course of action is one of hesitancy and equivocating from our management, followed by our usual accumulation of deadwood in the final five hours of the market. Much has been made of the talk that Seedorf will be allowed to build his own squad, however all Milan fans know that talk is cheap. Frankly I expect to see a couple of more "experienced" - read: veteran - players such as Alex join, two starters to inexplicably leave, an inadequate solution to the position of goalkeeper and champagne all around at Headquarters.

by S Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:34 am

Di Marzio wrote:Milan is pondering Seedorf’s future. Milan is deciding what they want to do next season, last night Galliani and Silvio Berlusconi had dinner to discuss the rossoneri’s future. The update from the dinner is that there isn’t much faith in Seedorf. They didn’t like some of Seedorf’s postures and of course the results. They also didn’t appreciate the statements from Seedorf’s agent. At the moment, Seedorf’s future is tied to the team’s results in the matches against Lazio and Fiorentina. The possibility of ending the season with Tassotti as coach can’t be excluded, while for next season Donadoni and Inzaghi are options. While Seedorf focuses on the team, Milan is thinking about the future.

by Kaladin Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:43 am

What a circus. You'd think they'd know fully well about the repercussions of choosing Seedorf, first 2 months and they expect him to wave the magic wand? So much for long term vision

by McLewis Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:56 am

Terrible decision if they end up letting him go so quickly. This is something that really scares off the top coaching talent from Serie A and is directly a reason why the league hasn't progressed.

by S Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:14 am

Clarence Seedorf reportedly told Milan’s Ultras in January that he hopes to change up to three-quarters of the Rossoneri’s current squad.

The Gazzetta dello Sport, who today are running the line that the 37-year-old has two games to save his job at San Siro, also suggest that his intentions with the playing staff involve a complete renovation.

The paper quote Giancarlo Capelli, leader of the club’s Curva Sud Ultras, as telling them that Seedorf indicated as much to him during a meeting held in January, at the very beginning of his tenure as Coach.

“Seedorf told us that three-quarters of this team, who he has inherited, he does not want,” Capelli has told the Gazzetta. “He told us a week after arriving here.”

by rwo power Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:55 am

That sounds as if he wants to go onto a Magathesque shopping trip in summer...

by McLewis Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:02 pm

Those Milan players needs to be put through a Magathesque training regimen too. Fitness has been poverty level all season.

by dostoevsky Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:10 pm

It would be absurd to sack Seedorf after such a short period but even more so given the lack of short term objectives left to consider this season. Nothing remains as an objective with no European competition in which to play and no credible league objective bar survival meaning that all pressure concerning results has essentially been alleviated. Our team has nothing to play for during the rest of the season. If we were to remove Seedorf, what would we be doing this for? To achieve what before the end of the season?

Seedorf has been far from perfect, however he deserves the chance to make the changes he wants in the summer and at least a year at the helm, ideally two, in which to show progress. I personally feel that Berlusconi will not act against a man with whom he has such a close relationship; personally I feel it's just a media circus which will blow over soon.

According to the press Allegri was sacked about a dozen times during his management. Seedorf's position is safe, rest assured.

by Eivindo Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:15 pm

Funny thing is that the Milan management seem to have some kind of delusion of grandeur from old times, kicking managers if they cant win 5 straight. Only reason Allegri survived for so long was essentially because of 2 players; Ibra and Silva. (Nesta was pretty good too). Remove that and you have the sinking ship that Seedorf took over.

Somehow it is expected from a rookie coach to qualify for Europa League when each season the team gets worse and worse, and the idea is to get "free champions" to join the club, and giving them huge pay checks instead. This is surely working out...

Welcome to the sinking circus; Circus Milan. Sad

OFFICIAL : Seedorf appointed Milan manager...aaaand sacked - Page 4 Tumblr_mswusbhv1V1rik5jvo1_500

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