To all Barca fans

This season right around December there will come a time when things get heated....so I thought I'd make this thread now before I get suicidal if you beat us or go into ecstasy 24/7 troll mode if we win.I'll just state my beliefs

Lionel Messi is CLEARLY the best player in the world right now and most likely the most talented player in history.The fact that he does everything by instinct is unbelievable and almost unfair.

Xavi and iniesta are also amazing and are clearly the best midfield duo in the world .I am reluctant to say all time because that would be ignorant of some other great pairings

Carles puyol is the heart and soul of your team and represents everything that is right in football.

Victor Valdes has come a long way from his mistake prone 2008-2009 season.He is clearly one of the best goalkeepers in the world and if he can keep up his form he will be remembered as a true legend(This is especially hard to say as , if I saw this joker in person , I would eat his eyes)

Barcelona under Josep Guardiola while obviously not a joy to watch for me , has been especially good for football, in the world and has reignited the quest to ressurect the art of football especially in europe , where the game had been slowly descending into a purely physical contest.

I also have a few things to say concerning Madrid

Casillas is still better than Valdes and pretty much always will be , until the day comes when valdes captins spain to a Euro and saves their ass in a world cup final.

Barca fans are unfairly critical of madrid's way of football. First of all why is it that you consider us lesser to you rather than cultivate homegrown talent. Football is brought to us in many ways , including the two outlined above, and it is still football , wether the players cost 50 million pounds or 15 years nurturing in a youth system , we should judge football on what it is and not the price tag that follows it.

Do not think that just because i say this I support our over zealous spending , because I too have watched our most promising youth products either find success elswhere or waste away , and this is truly painful, but I cannot change what my club does , and I cannot change clubs because they have a poor youth system policy so alas I remain hopeful that one day it will change

Secondly, you guys are way over the top with claims of our agressiveness. You make it seem like if we are hired assasins , and claim we destroy football, but the truth is , we do more than anyone to cultivate beautiful attacking football, at leat more than most.For the time being we do pressure and tackle and nip at your feet , but that is only because this is what your style allows us to do.You fail to recognize the cause and effect nature of this process.It is like shooting at a guy and then getting disgusted at his humanity when he shoots back.

Finally , thank you to anyone who actually takes the time to read to the end of this long f**king post. The next 5 years will be great , and the rivalry we experience will probably the best(football style wise) the world has ever seen, and we need to appreciate that. Also do not think that this post has anything to do with me trying to be super sensible and rational at all time during footall, because honestly , that would just take away from the visceral experience that football is . Without the cold hatred of rivals , football is not football, so hate us , despise us , call us cheats and say we destroy football, but do it sparingly and savour the emotion that goes with it because those are the experiences we truly take from rivalry , especially one as deep as ours.

Class post man. I found myself nodding with a lot of parts, and even where I might disagree here and there I recognize that your points are valid and hit close to home. Overall, it's refreshing to see such a down to earth post, especially from a Madridista

For me Madrid is not problem for football and never was.
Problem is Mourinho, he was problem in Chelsea, he was problem in Inter and now he is problem in Madrid.
He is liar, one big liar and he allways was, he is playing bad mindgames, sometimes he is using dirty tactics to stop players, he can not stop insultng peple around himself (England, Italy, Portugal)... and the biggest problem is that some people belive him and thinking that he is right.

Mou at Chelsea: Drogba is the best player on the world, Ferguson is bastard, Wenger is looser, all others are shit, refs are corrupted.
Mou at Inter: Ibra/Eto'o is the best player on the world, all other coaches are bastards, refs are liars and they are paid to do things against him.
Mou at Real: Cristiano is the best player on the world, Barcelona is aying to UEFA, still insulting othr coaches and players, and after all, trying to kick Faregas in head and poking Tito in the eye.

ChollaVille wrote:For me Madrid is not problem for football and never was.
Problem is Mourinho, he was problem in Chelsea, he was problem in Inter and now he is problem in Madrid.
He is liar, one big liar and he allways was, he is playing bad mindgames, sometimes he is using dirty tactics to stop players, he can not stop insultng peple around himself (England, Italy, Portugal)... and the biggest problem is that some people belive him and thinking that he is right.

Mou at Chelsea: Drogba is the best player on the world, Ferguson is bastard, Wenger is looser, all others are shit, refs are corrupted.
Mou at Inter: Ibra/Eto'o is the best player on the world, all other coaches are bastards, refs are liars and they are paid to do things against him.
Mou at Real: Cristiano is the best player on the world, Barcelona is aying to UEFA, still insulting othr coaches and players, and after all, trying to kick Faregas in head and poking Tito in the eye.

look....you don't have to like mourinhio.....and I will probably never be able to change your opinion of him, but you need to respect individual's different ways of doing things. Everything that you listed is related to his coaching style , and u may not like the process , but the process brings results.

If you ever played football competitively you will really be able to understand what mourinhio does and you will appreciate him alot more.

And honestly dirty tactics ? Welcome to professional sport , where people do what it takes to win. If that's too much for you , go watch a childrern's ballet or professional eating competition cuz those are the only two things that even vaguely resemble sports that don't have dirty tactics.

Nice post man. Though I still disagree with you on some points, but I respect that you've tried to post something which won't end in fights.

1. I think its pretty obvious why we're proud about the fact that our team is predominantly home-grown... We have a right to be proud in it. I don't really disrespect the other way of doing things, RM are not alone... City, Malaga, United, Chelsea, Inter etc... pretty much buy their teams. However, the fact that we do it differently is something to be proud in. Barca is like a national team of Catalunya, so they're more attached to locals than other teams. So thats why we're proud.

Comparing it to Madrid is just part of the rivalry sorry.

2. Disagree that the claims of aggressiveness are over the top. While I dislike it, I recognise that its a tactic that Madrid try to employ: play tough and put in hard challenges. The idea is, you let them know you're there, and they'll be put off their game. I'm not foreign sport.

What I'd complain about, though, is the bad sporting behaviour shown a few times, normally toward the end of the game because they were losing.

Notably:
Ramos' tackle on Messi, because they were losing.
Hitman Adebayor coming on and trying to injure everyone in sight, because they were losing.
Marcelo's tackle on Fabregas, because they were losing.
...There are more, but those are the best examples. No excuses... If a Barca player did that, I wouldn't respect it at all. If you want to be violent, stand up to your man face to face...

3. No respect for Mourinho sorry. I understand his 'game' he plays as the guy noone likes, its smart. However, he takes it way too far. I don't care about his managing anymore, its him as a person. There's something called self integrity. Either he has compromised this so much by his obsession with his job or he was just always a horrible man. I'd like to think the first. Mourinho, in my opinion, sacrifices his self integrity for his job. Considering the premise of this though, he doesn't care that people have no respect for him, which I think is sad.


Just my thoughts, but largely a great post... we should enjoy this rivalry its amazing.

So much positive feedback

Great post. Especially the tone of it

BarcaKizz wrote:Nice post man. Though I still disagree with you on some points, but I respect that you've tried to post something which won't end in fights.

1. I think its pretty obvious why we're proud about the fact that our team is predominantly home-grown... We have a right to be proud in it. I don't really disrespect the other way of doing things, RM are not alone... City, Malaga, United, Chelsea, Inter etc... pretty much buy their teams. However, the fact that we do it differently is something to be proud in. Barca is like a national team of Catalunya, so they're more attached to locals than other teams. So thats why we're proud.

Comparing it to Madrid is just part of the rivalry sorry.

2. Disagree that the claims of aggressiveness are over the top. While I dislike it, I recognise that its a tactic that Madrid try to employ: play tough and put in hard challenges. The idea is, you let them know you're there, and they'll be put off their game. I'm not foreign sport.

What I'd complain about, though, is the bad sporting behaviour shown a few times, normally toward the end of the game because they were losing.

Notably:
Ramos' tackle on Messi, because they were losing.
Hitman Adebayor coming on and trying to injure everyone in sight, because they were losing.
Marcelo's tackle on Fabregas, because they were losing.
...There are more, but those are the best examples. No excuses... If a Barca player did that, I wouldn't respect it at all. If you want to be violent, stand up to your man face to face...

3. No respect for Mourinho sorry. I understand his 'game' he plays as the guy noone likes, its smart. However, he takes it way too far. I don't care about his managing anymore, its him as a person. There's something called self integrity. Either he has compromised this so much by his obsession with his job or he was just always a horrible man. I'd like to think the first. Mourinho, in my opinion, sacrifices his self integrity for his job. Considering the premise of this though, he doesn't care that people have no respect for him, which I think is sad.


Just my thoughts, but largely a great post... we should enjoy this rivalry its amazing.

On the tackling I can agree that there were some regrettable challenges from Madrid players, and you are completely right that it was because we were losing, but I would be lying if I said I did not in some ways support them.While I don't want to see any players injured , I still do not think that sitting back and watching yourself lose is the right way to go. You have to do something...not neccesarily try to kill someone , but something none the less. Also I think that overall , to understand challenges like that you really have to put yourself in the moment on the field, with the emotion and that's somewhere none of us will ever be.
On a secondary not I just want to put it out there , that diving is in some ways worse than hard tackling , because it is premeditated and obstructs the justice of the game much more. Everyone may disagree with this but I think as far as fair play go , Madrid and Barca come out pretty equally dirty at the end of the day.


About Mourinhio , you get it but you dont quite get it. You see I'll put it like this in a funny way , You;re like
the citzens of Gotham watching all these people die because of Batman, and you think Batman is evil or at least that he has no integrity , when the fact is he has more integrity than anyone in the world. Most do not understand why Mourinhio is so great , It's not his tactics , he can change tactics anytime he wants , it for the very reason you hate him that he is great. He assumes the role of the villan so that the team can function, free of pressure , free of hate. He is like a collossal shield against the negative forces of the footballing world for his players.With Mourinhio as coach Argentina would win 3 consecutive world cups because of this.People do have respect for him , but only people that matter.

Anyway I hope no one else criticizes him tho , cuz I dunno If i can come up with something as ridiculous/good as comparing him to Batman again, but criticize him and I will try.Some Barca fan who has played some type of professional football needs to look past their bias and stick up for him.

Fantastic thread boys.

ragbirjosh wrote:

On the tackling I can agree that there were some regrettable challenges from Madrid players, and you are completely right that it was because we were losing, but I would be lying if I said I did not in some ways support them.While I don't want to see any players injured , I still do not think that sitting back and watching yourself lose is the right way to go. You have to do something...not neccesarily try to kill someone , but something none the less. Also I think that overall , to understand challenges like that you really have to put yourself in the moment on the field, with the emotion and that's somewhere none of us will ever be.
On a secondary not I just want to put it out there , that diving is in some ways worse than hard tackling , because it is premeditated and obstructs the justice of the game much more. Everyone may disagree with this but I think as far as fair play go , Madrid and Barca come out pretty equally dirty at the end of the day.

One thing here. As for diving we are the same. No! I change my mind, RM are worst at it! RM players dive without contact. Ours usually don't. As for playacting, every year we have 3 players who contest for Oscar in the drama genre.

ragbirjosh wrote:
About Mourinhio , you get it but you dont quite get it. You see I'll put it like this in a funny way , You;re like
the citzens of Gotham watching all these people die because of Batman, and you think Batman is evil or at least that he has no integrity , when the fact is he has more integrity than anyone in the world. Most do not understand why Mourinhio is so great , It's not his tactics , he can change tactics anytime he wants , it for the very reason you hate him that he is great. He assumes the role of the villan so that the team can function, free of pressure , free of hate. He is like a collossal shield against the negative forces of the footballing world for his players.With Mourinhio as coach Argentina would win 3 consecutive world cups because of this.People do have respect for him , but only people that matter.

Anyway I hope no one else criticizes him tho , cuz I dunno If i can come up with something as ridiculous/good as comparing him to Batman again, but criticize him and I will try.Some Barca fan who has played some type of professional football needs to look past their bias and stick up for him.

One thing is to LIKE seeing someone as a Batman (or Green Hornet would suit your metaphor better), and totally other thing is to look at him to what he really is - Machiavellist. Mou is not fighting crime! If all other teams are "criminals and evil" you got a point. But this is sport. In the essence it should be fair! If you loose you give more effort next time, and not poke someones eye!

BTW great post

ragbirjosh wrote:
About Mourinhio , you get it but you dont quite get it. You see I'll put it like this in a funny way , You;re like
the citzens of Gotham watching all these people die because of Batman, and you think Batman is evil or at least that he has no integrity , when the fact is he has more integrity than anyone in the world. Most do not understand why Mourinhio is so great , It's not his tactics , he can change tactics anytime he wants , it for the very reason you hate him that he is great. He assumes the role of the villan so that the team can function, free of pressure , free of hate. He is like a collossal shield against the negative forces of the footballing world for his players.With Mourinhio as coach Argentina would win 3 consecutive world cups because of this.People do have respect for him , but only people that matter.

Anyway I hope no one else criticizes him tho , cuz I dunno If i can come up with something as ridiculous/good as comparing him to Batman again, but criticize him and I will try.Some Barca fan who has played some type of professional football needs to look past their bias and stick up for him.

Trust me, I get it. You put that quite well, and that is exactly what he does. I think most educated football fans can tell that is what he is doing. I've always known it. However, the stuff you said about integrity is wrong... he has sacrificed his integrity for his coaching. Its true. I actually quite admire what he did with Inter, Chelsea and Porto, because he pulled that tactic off nicely. However, he's gone too far at Madrid and done unnecessary things. Why? Because his plan hasn't worked yet and he doesn't like losing. Trying to kick a player in the head and poking a manager in the eye??? Wtf...

I'll put it in another Batman analogy for you (lol). He's actually trying to play the Joker.... but like Heath Ledger he's got caught up in his role and its driving him to insanity. Its not an act anymore...

Btw, I laughed so hard at this bit:

you think Batman is evil or at least that he has no integrity , when the fact is he has more integrity than anyone in the world.

I would so put that quote as my sig if it was from someone dumb, but you wrote it in an explanation and I respect your posting.

Rag you might say that he's protecting the team by being the villain, but when he creates this atmosphere of me vs. the world it creates a toxic environment in games. Don't say Mourinho is not he problem because this didn't happen before his arrival. And this toxic environment often leads to post-game fights. In the future if the games keep escalating as they have recently it could lead to street fights between the two fans and perhaps some of them getting injured or worse. It's dangerous, negligent, and he doesn't seem to see the problem. That is, by far, the worse part of the Mourinho method.

Also, so typical of other Real Madrid fans to -1 the Real fans that admit Barca's talents

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Rag you might saw that he's protecting the team by being the villain, but when he creates this atmosphere of me vs. the world it creates a toxic environment in games. Don't say Mourinho is not he problem because this didn't happen before his arrival. And this toxic environment often leads to post-game fights. In the future if the games keep escalating as they have recently it could lead to street fights between the two fans and perhaps some of them getting injured or worse. It's dangerous, negligent, and he doesn't seem to see the problem. That is, by far, the worse part of the Mourinho method.

Also, so typical of other Real Madrid fans to -1 the Real fans that admit Barca's talents

Always blame the madrid, nice way of having an conversation..
Inb4negrep

ragbirjosh wrote:

ChollaVille wrote:For me Madrid is not problem for football and never was.
Problem is Mourinho, he was problem in Chelsea, he was problem in Inter and now he is problem in Madrid.
He is liar, one big liar and he allways was, he is playing bad mindgames, sometimes he is using dirty tactics to stop players, he can not stop insultng peple around himself (England, Italy, Portugal)... and the biggest problem is that some people belive him and thinking that he is right.

Mou at Chelsea: Drogba is the best player on the world, Ferguson is bastard, Wenger is looser, all others are shit, refs are corrupted.
Mou at Inter: Ibra/Eto'o is the best player on the world, all other coaches are bastards, refs are liars and they are paid to do things against him.
Mou at Real: Cristiano is the best player on the world, Barcelona is aying to UEFA, still insulting othr coaches and players, and after all, trying to kick Faregas in head and poking Tito in the eye.

look....you don't have to like mourinhio.....and I will probably never be able to change your opinion of him, but you need to respect individual's different ways of doing things. Everything that you listed is related to his coaching style , and u may not like the process , but the process brings results.

If you ever played football competitively you will really be able to understand what mourinhio does and you will appreciate him alot more.

And honestly dirty tactics ? Welcome to professional sport , where people do what it takes to win. If that's too much for you , go watch a childrern's ballet or professional eating competition cuz those are the only two things that even vaguely resemble sports that don't have dirty tactics.

O.K. his tactics... whats next? He is going to pay hitman to kill Messi?

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Rag you might say that he's protecting the team by being the villain, but when he creates this atmosphere of me vs. the world it creates a toxic environment in games. Don't say Mourinho is not he problem because this didn't happen before his arrival. And this toxic environment often leads to post-game fights. In the future if the games keep escalating as they have recently it could lead to street fights between the two fans and perhaps some of them getting injured or worse. It's dangerous, negligent, and he doesn't seem to see the problem. That is, by far, the worse part of the Mourinho method.

Also, so typical of other Real Madrid fans to -1 the Real fans that admit Barca's talents

That toxic environment.......it's called rivalry and it's existed for years, and mourinhio certainly didn't star it.If your aim is to create world peace , then maybe you don't do what mourinhio does , but if your aim is to win football matches then I think that what mourinhio does is exactly what madrid needs.Also as far as fan violence goes , the classico is amazingly docile... trust me , if you think that this is bad you don't wanna go anywhere near turkey during a galatassaray -fenebache game, boca juniors -river plate etc.Seriously just accept the fact that football is no longer a gentleman's game and really, appreciate the fact that the game is better because of it.

You have no proof that any Madrid fans -1'ned me or whatever and if they did , I dont blame them , 3 months ago I would do the same and 3 months from now I will once again do the same.This reputation system is stupid anyway.

[/quote]


O.K. his tactics... whats next? He is going to pay hitman to kill Messi?[/quote]

Maybe , but that is as likely as busquets have plastic surgery to get a third eye so he can monitor the referee at all times or spending a summer taking method acting classes from christian bale and al pacino.

I also forgot to mention one thing in my op .... although xaviesta is the best right now and possibly the best of all time Ozil and Sahin can easily overtake them one day if given a real chance to develop. As far as talent goes Sahin is on a different level to xavi, but xavi has worked so hard to become such a great player , you have to respect him .

I disagree on the “easily” part.
It’s not about Xavi and Iniesta. It’s about surpassing anyone who is considered one of the best ever.
It might happen but it won’t be easy.

billy_gr wrote:I disagree on the “easily” part.
It’s not about Xavi and Iniesta. It’s about surpassing anyone who is considered one of the best ever.
It might happen but it won’t be easy.

Fair

This never happen before Mourinho.

Great Post rag

However, I'd have to disagree with your comments regarding Jose Mourinho. Playing "mind games" in football is normal on and off the pitch, but he takes it way too far. I would understand the comments before the game, but saying the things he says after the game is over makes him a sore loser. Overmore, its contagious. he ignites hostility. the desire to win is one thing but the tackles when the team is losing are ugly. even the comments made by some of the madrid players after the game are ridicioulous. Did u hear Man united comments after the game? Absolute class. Does that makes them losers, or they don't desire winning as much? and as i said before he takes it way too far. Just remember the Anders frisk incident.

Again, great post rag. and great comments guys

ChollaVille wrote:

Lmao, sorry to break the "peaceful" atmosphere, but that video is just so over dramatic it gets funny...

Please dont take this the wrong way pal, but I think its a damning sight that us Barca fans are thanking you and praising you for your post.

What I mean is, I enjoyed reading much of your post, but I simply cannot agree with your comments on Mourinho or Madrid attitude, or the diving issue. However, it is amazing that we feel the need the thank you none the less because you posted in a calm and respectful manor which we simply do not see around here.

I dont mean for this to be an attack or some kind of negative comment here, not at all. But its shows me what a bad state this forum is terms of relationship with Barca fans. We feel the need to show you incredible gratitude and praise, for in the end, posting in a normal way.

I hope I am clear and I am not throwing cold water on the situation here. Because I do also thank you for your post because compared to attitude of others, it is indeed great.

i wont go into the issues I disagree with, simply because I think Kizz has said what I would have almost word for word.

We had a thread not long ago and I stick to what I felt there and what freecat said. This situation we find ourselfs in here, I find it hardly Barca's fault at all.

ragbirjosh wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Rag you might say that he's protecting the team by being the villain, but when he creates this atmosphere of me vs. the world it creates a toxic environment in games. Don't say Mourinho is not he problem because this didn't happen before his arrival. And this toxic environment often leads to post-game fights. In the future if the games keep escalating as they have recently it could lead to street fights between the two fans and perhaps some of them getting injured or worse. It's dangerous, negligent, and he doesn't seem to see the problem. That is, by far, the worse part of the Mourinho method.

Also, so typical of other Real Madrid fans to -1 the Real fans that admit Barca's talents

That toxic environment.......it's called rivalry and it's existed for years, and mourinhio certainly didn't star it.If your aim is to create world peace , then maybe you don't do what mourinhio does , but if your aim is to win football matches then I think that what mourinhio does is exactly what madrid needs.Also as far as fan violence goes , the classico is amazingly docile... trust me , if you think that this is bad you don't wanna go anywhere near turkey during a galatassaray -fenebache game, boca juniors -river plate etc.Seriously just accept the fact that football is no longer a gentleman's game and really, appreciate the fact that the game is better because of it..

The rivalry was there before. With Schuster, Juande and Pellegrini these incidents didn't occur. Pep was in all of these and there were no incidents either. Not when Barca won by huge margins or when Barca won by just one goal. Clearly, what has changed the most since then, has been caused by Mourinho. Be it because of his mentality or because of the much more physical approach the games are getting increasingly more toxic - and the danger of fan violence raises with each escalated game. And yes, while Barca does have some responsibility too, it is mainly caused by Mourinho and this attitude he instills in both fans and players.

I'm not talking about the fan violence now, I'm talking about the danger of this escalating into fan violence, in which case even one injury or death would be more than enough. I was raised in Argentina so I know exactly how bad that can get, most recently part of my neighborhood has been trashed by it in the aftermath of the River Plate - Belgrano games. It's something that doesn't between the two clubs and it shouldn't. Barca has recognized this as a problem and both Pique and Rosell have spoken up against it. Rosell has recently claimed that "We need to stop at some point and let common sense prevail. If these incidents aren't stopped there will be blood in the streets." No reply from the Real Madrid court - they don't seem to find this a problem. Señorio is dead.

As for the "This is a rivalry" attitude that is an incredibly immature way to look at these things. I have lived through countless superclasicos and not once has a Boca/River coach poked the other in the eye. Mourinho is going too far, if he hasn't already.

The Franchise wrote:Please dont take this the wrong way pal, but I think its a damning sight that us Barca fans are thanking you and praising you for your post.

What I mean is, I enjoyed reading much of your post, but I simply cannot agree with your comments on Mourinho or Madrid attitude, or the diving issue. However, it is amazing that we feel the need the thank you none the less because you posted in a calm and respectful manor which we simply do not see around here.

I dont mean for this to be an attack or some kind of negative comment here, not at all. But its shows me what a bad state this forum is terms of relationship with Barca fans. We feel the need to show you incredible gratitude and praise, for in the end, posting in a normal way.

I hope I am clear and I am not throwing cold water on the situation here. Because I do also thank you for your post because compared to attitude of others, it is indeed great.

i wont go into the issues I disagree with, simply because I think Kizz has said what I would have almost word for word.

We had a thread not long ago and I stick to what I felt there and what freecat said. This situation we find ourselfs in here, I find it hardly Barca's fault at all.

+1 and amen to that. I think we're thankful someone is willing to talk calmly from a Madrid perspective. I thank you for that but largely disagree.

ie. 'Sahin is easily more talented than Xavi' made me want to rage so hard...
How do you define more talented??? Better touch or something in his feet? More pretty to watch? Simple observers don't get the beauty of Xavi. He's the least flashy player around. His talent is in his head, not in his feet. I don't want to try to be a soothsayer and say Sahin will never be on his level, but that is my guess. Sahin will never be as good as Xavi.