Re: Stats thread

[Harmonica]

Added Zico.

World Cup Career

Matches (Won - Drawn - Lost)

Pele 14 (12 - 1 - 1) = 86% win
Schillaci 7 (6 - 0 - 1) = 86% win
T.Müller 13 (11 - 1 - 1) = 85% win
G.Müller 13 (11 - 0 - 2) = 85% win
Ronaldo 19 (16 - 0 - 3) = 84% win
Eusebio 6 (5 - 0 - 1) = 83% win
Messi 15 (12 - 1 - 2) = 80% win
Romario 8 (6 - 2 - 0) = 75% win
Cruyff 7 (5 - 1 - 1) = 71% win
Klose 24 (16 - 6 - 3) = 67% win
Maradona 21 (14 - 2 - 5) = 67% win
Zidane 12 (8 - 3 - 1) = 67% win
Zico 14 (9 - 3 - 2) = 64% win
Rossi 14 (8 - 4 - 2) = 57% win
Charlton 14 (8 - 2 - 4) = 57% win
C.Ronaldo 13 (6 - 3 - 4) = 46% win
Kempes 18 (8 - 4 - 6) = 44% win

Goals (Scored + Assisted + Involved)

Messi 18 (5 + 6 + 7) out of 22 team goals = 82% (+1 SO goal)
Rossi 17 (9 + 3 + 5) out of 21 team goals = 81%
G.Müller 22 (14 (1p) + 6 + 2) out of 30 team goals = 73%
Cruyff 11 (4 + 4 + 3) out of 15 team goals = 73%
Romario 8 (5 + 3 + 0) out of 11 team goals = 73% (+1 SO goal)
Eusebio 12 (9 (4p) + 2 + 1) out of 17 team goals = 71%
Schillaci 7 (6 (1p) + 1 + 0) out of 10 team goals = 70%
Pele 22 (12 + 8 + 2) out of 37 team goals = 59%
Maradona 19 (8 + 8 + 3) out of 32 team goals = 59% (+1 SO miss and goal)
Zico 11 (5 (1p) + 5 + 1) out of 19 team goals = 58% (+1 SO goal)
Kempes 17 (6 + 6 + 5) out of 30 team goals = 57%
T.Müller 18 (10 (1p) + 6 + 2) out of 34 team goals = 53%
Zidane 9 (5 (2p) + 2 + 2) out of 17 team goals = 53% (+1 SO goal)
Ronaldo 21 (15 (1p) + 6 + 0) out of 41 team goals = 51% (+1 SO goal)
Klose 20 (16 + 3 + 1) out of 42 team goals = 48%
C.Ronaldo 6 (3 (1p) + 2 + 1) out of 16 team goals = 38% (+1 SO goal)
Charlton 6 (4 + 0 + 2) out of 20 team goals = 30%

[Harmonica]

Added Robben, Jairzinho, Batistuta, Suker and Ardiles:

World Cup Career

Matches (Won - Drawn - Lost)

Pele 14 (12 - 1 - 1) = 86% win
Schillaci 7 (6 - 0 - 1) = 86% win
T.Müller 13 (11 - 1 - 1) = 85% win
G.Müller 13 (11 - 0 - 2) = 85% win
Ronaldo 19 (16 - 0 - 3) = 84% win
Eusebio 6 (5 - 0 - 1) = 83% win
Messi 15 (12 - 1 - 2) = 80% win
Robben 15 (12 - 0 - 3) = 80% win
Romario 8 (6 - 2 - 0) = 75% win
Cruyff 7 (5 - 1 - 1) = 71% win
Klose 24 (16 - 6 - 3) = 67% win
Maradona 21 (14 - 2 - 5) = 67% win
Zidane 12 (8 - 3 - 1) = 67% win
Zico 14 (9 - 3 - 2) = 64% win
Jairzinho 16 (10 - 2 - 4) = 63% win
Suker 8 (5 - 0 - 3) = 63% win
Batistuta 12 (7 - 1 - 4) = 58% win
Rossi 14 (8 - 4 - 2) = 57% win
Charlton 14 (8 - 2 - 4) = 57% win
Ardiles 11 (6 - 1 - 4) = 54% win
C.Ronaldo 13 (6 - 3 - 4) = 46% win
Kempes 18 (8 - 4 - 6) = 44% win

Goals (Scored + Assisted + Involved)

Messi 18 (5 + 6 + 7) out of 22 team goals = 82% (+1 SO goal)
Rossi 17 (9 + 3 + 5) out of 21 team goals = 81%
G.Müller 22 (14 (1p) + 6 + 2) out of 30 team goals = 73%
Cruyff 11 (4 + 4 + 3) out of 15 team goals = 73%
Romario 8 (5 + 3 + 0) out of 11 team goals = 73% (+1 SO goal)
Eusebio 12 (9 (4p) + 2 + 1) out of 17 team goals = 71%
Schillaci 7 (6 (1p) + 1 + 0) out of 10 team goals = 70%
Batistuta 13 (10 (4p) + 2 + 1) out of 19 team goals = 68%
Robben 18 (6 + 5 + 7) out of 27 team goals = 67% (+2 SO goals)
Suker 7 (6 (1p) + 0 + 1) out of 11 team goals = 64%
Pele 22 (12 + 8 + 2) out of 37 team goals = 59%
Maradona 19 (8 + 8 + 3) out of 32 team goals = 59% (+1 SO miss and goal)
Jairzinho 17 (9 + 3 + 5) out of 29 team goals = 59%
Zico 11 (5 (1p) + 5 + 1) out of 19 team goals = 58% (+1 SO goal)
Kempes 17 (6 + 6 + 5) out of 30 team goals = 57%
Ardiles 8 (1 + 2 + 5) out of 15 team goals = 53%
T.Müller 18 (10 (1p) + 6 + 2) out of 34 team goals = 53%
Zidane 9 (5 (2p) + 2 + 2) out of 17 team goals = 53% (+1 SO goal)
Ronaldo 21 (15 (1p) + 6 + 0) out of 41 team goals = 51% (+1 SO goal)
Klose 20 (16 + 3 + 1) out of 42 team goals = 48%
C.Ronaldo 6 (3 (1p) + 2 + 1) out of 16 team goals = 38% (+1 SO goal)
Charlton 6 (4 + 0 + 2) out of 20 team goals = 30%

[Harmonica]

Jamie Vardy just broke van Nistelrooy's consecutive premier league scoring record scoring 11 games in a row. Which reminds me of one of the most bizarrely overwhelming scoring records Messi has. Scoring 21 league games in a row against every 19 opponents.

Consecutive League Scoring Record

21 games 33 goals Messi Spanish League 12-13
16 games 23 goals Gerd Müller German League 69-70
16 games 22 goals Teodor Peterek Polish League 37-38
15 games 22 goals Juan Pedro Young Uruguayn League 1933
...
11 games 13 goals Jamie Vardy Premier League 15-16

[RealGunner]

Best winning % so far in 2015:
1) Barcelona 78.1
2) PSG 76.3
3) Bayern 71.7
4) Arsenal 67.9
5) Real Madrid 64.8
6) Juventus 62.7


Arsenal still 4th (:

[jibers]

Best winning % so far in 2015:
1) Barcelona 78.1
2) PSG 76.3
3) Bayern 71.7
4) Arsenal 67.9
5) Real Madrid 64.8
6) Juventus 62.7


Arsenal still 4th (:

[Art Morte]

Comfy gaps both sides, too

[Harmonica]

Premier League

14-15 PFA Hazard, Whoscored Hazard 7,96
13-14 PFA Suarez, Whoscored Suarez 8,43
12-13 PFA Bale, Whoscored Bale 7,92
11-12 PFA Van Persie, Whoscored Van Persie 7,80
10-11 PFA Bale, Whoscored Nani 7,71 (Bale #18 7,38), Nani won league, Bale 4th
09-10 PFA Rooney, Whoscored Drogba 8,32 (Rooney #4 7.91), Drogba won league, Rooney 2nd

La Liga

14-15 LFP Messi, Whoscored Messi 8,84
13-14 LFP Cronaldo, Whoscored Messi 8,34 (Cronaldo #2 8,27), Messi excluded from vote by Perez
12-13 LFP Messi, Whoscored Messi 8,83
11-12 LFP Messi, Whoscored Messi 8,88
10-11 LFP Messi, Whoscored Messi 8,76
09-10 LFP Messi, Whoscored Messi 8,67

Serie A

14-15 AIC Tevez, Whoscored Vazquez 7,74 (Tevez #3 7,66)
13-14 AIC Pirlo, Whoscored Cuadrado 7,71 (Pirlo #6 7,56)
12-13 AIC Pirlo, Whoscored Pirlo 7,82
11-12 AIC Pirlo, Whoscored Zlatan 8,14 (Pirlo #2 7,88)
10-11 AIC Zlatan, Whoscored Lucio 7,77 (Zlatan #4 7,60)
09-10 AIC Milito, Whoscored Lucio 7,76 (Milito #16 7,47), both won the league

Based on statistical analyse and league finish (if rating is close), only 3 seasons appears to be controversial.

PFA 09-10, 10-11
LFP 13-14 (only controversial because Messi was excluded from vote, Messi would have probably won it otherwise)
AIC 09-10

If we take the Cronaldo's stolen award away, statistical analyze and league finish agreed with voters 15 of 18 times or 83% of the time.

[Curtinho]

Are we going to bring back the 'most productive player per minute' thread? I haven't checked the other leagues yet but it's pretty interesting at the top right now.

Gareth Bale - goal every 89.5 mins, assist every 145.5 mins (g+a every 55.4 mins).
Lionel Messi - goal every 100.9 mins, assist every 277.5 mins (g+a every 74 mins).
Neymar - goal every 95.4 mins, assist every 169.6 mins (g+a every 61 mins)
Luis Suarez - goal every 95 mins, assist every 285 mins (g+a every 71.3 mins)
Karim Benzema - goal every 69 mins, assist every 1180 mins (g+a every 65.5 mins)
Cristiano Ronaldo - goal every 118.1 mins, assist every 270 mins (g+a every 82.2 mins)

So on a per minute basis we have:

1 - Bale, 55.4 min/p
2 - Neymar, 61 min/p
3 - Benzema, 65.5 min/p
4 - Suarez, 71.3 min/p
5 - Messi, 74 min/p
6 - Ronaldo, 82.2 min/p

Keep in mind this is only in La Liga. Bale tho.

[Hapless_Hans]

What we can't forget though is that Real had, iirc, 2 games where they won with a crazy score, 10-something against a 9 man Rayo and another one.

Bale score, what?, 5 goals in that one game? A goal every 10 minutes?

That makes for great "most productive" stats with a very questionable version of 'productiveness'.

[Curtinho]

I'm fairly certain they all face the same teams in La Liga (though of course, I could be wrong).

[Harmonica]

I'm fairly certain they all face the same teams in La Liga (though of course, I could be wrong).

Perez and RFEF disagrees.

[Hapless_Hans]

I'm fairly certain they all face the same teams in La Liga (though of course, I could be wrong).

And? How does that answer the question of whether distribution of goals plays a role in determining the quality of a player.

You statheads are all the same. You cannot understand that quality and quantity are not the same.

[Curtinho]

I'm a stathead because I posted the productivity numbers?

You've really become one of the most ignorant posters on this site with your sweeping generalizations and general grumpiness. Grow up. I was posting some stats for fun. Where did I comment on quality of player?

[rwo power]

Wanna have stats? Robert Lewandowski 5 goals within 9 minutes. Against Wolfsburg, who kicked ManUtd out of the CL.

[Lucifer]

No one cares about Bundesfodder imo

[rwo power]

I'll make you care!

[Curtinho]

Wanna have stats? Robert Lewandowski 5 goals within 9 minutes. Against Wolfsburg, who kicked ManUtd out of the CL.

So an in form Lewandowski in reality has a 33g/90m production rate. Maybe the best ever.

[Onyx]

Stats never tell the full story. Players can pad themselves and be at the top of some graph, while not performing against any of the top sides.

[Curtinho]

I'm not saying they tell the whole story. They're just numbers. Numbers are only useful in context.

With that said I find the whole idea that 'only goals against top sides matter' or 'goals in 10 goal games don't matter' or whathaveyou a bit silly. Most of these players, at least in the same leagues, play against the same teams and face the same defences, players, etc. Messi has just as big an opportunity to score 5 goals against Eibar as the next guy, and you would be kidding yourself if you don't think he's trying to.

Goals against all teams matter, and are an indication of a players ability.

[Onyx]

Of course stats shouldn't be solely used to judge a players overall ability. However they are useful. And when it comes to using them as part of an assessment, it would definitely make a difference to my opinion of a player if they'd scored/assisted only against smaller sides.

[Curtinho]

Yes that is maybe worth noting, but it's also worth noting that those type of players are also important. I mean, in the case of La Liga if you are playing 38 games and you only really consider Atletico, Real and Barcelona as 'big teams' your road to the title has a grand total of 4 games against 'big teams' and 34 games against average to weak teams. Consistency in scoring against the weaker opposition is arguably more important than showing up in big games.

[Hapless_Hans]

Most of these players, at least in the same leagues, play against the same teams and face the same defences, players, etc. .

That's the thing though. They don't. Different games are not the same, because they're well, DIFFERENT.
A 9 men Rayo is different than a 11 man Rayo.
To give more context to the Bale example.

Bale scored a large number of his goals against a 9 man Rayo.
Of course, this important difference is NOT entering the calculation of goal+assists per minutes.

Sorry for the broadside earlier, I am too grumpy.

But the way stats become more and more central for valuing football stuff is really, REALLY, getting on my nerve.

There's SO much that can go wrong when converting stats, i.e. numbers, quantitative information, into arguments and qualitative statements.
People use the stuff so careless. It's really *bleep* annoying me.

[Onyx]

I have an inclination towards players who perform in big games over anything else. However they also need to be performing in the smaller games when all is said and done. And in most cases, those who are big game players usually deliver against weaker opposition. Surely not performing in the big games has to mean something when evaluating a player?

[free_cat]

Premier League

14-15 PFA Hazard, Whoscored Hazard 7,96
13-14 PFA Suarez, Whoscored Suarez 8,43
12-13 PFA Bale, Whoscored Bale 7,92
11-12 PFA Van Persie, Whoscored Van Persie 7,80
10-11 PFA Bale, Whoscored Nani 7,71 (Bale #18 7,38), Nani won league, Bale 4th
09-10 PFA Rooney, Whoscored Drogba 8,32 (Rooney #4 7.91), Drogba won league, Rooney 2nd

La Liga

14-15 LFP Messi, Whoscored Messi 8,84
13-14 LFP Cronaldo, Whoscored Messi 8,34 (Cronaldo #2 8,27), Messi excluded from vote by Perez
12-13 LFP Messi, Whoscored Messi 8,83
11-12 LFP Messi, Whoscored Messi 8,88
10-11 LFP Messi, Whoscored Messi 8,76
09-10 LFP Messi, Whoscored Messi 8,67

Serie A

14-15 AIC Tevez, Whoscored Vazquez 7,74 (Tevez #3 7,66)
13-14 AIC Pirlo, Whoscored Cuadrado 7,71 (Pirlo #6 7,56)
12-13 AIC Pirlo, Whoscored Pirlo 7,82
11-12 AIC Pirlo, Whoscored Zlatan 8,14 (Pirlo #2 7,88)
10-11 AIC Zlatan, Whoscored Lucio 7,77 (Zlatan #4 7,60)
09-10 AIC Milito, Whoscored Lucio 7,76 (Milito #16 7,47), both won the league

Based on statistical analyse and league finish (if rating is close), only 3 seasons appears to be controversial.

PFA 09-10, 10-11
LFP 13-14 (only controversial because Messi was excluded from vote, Messi would have probably won it otherwise)
AIC 09-10

If we take the Cronaldo's stolen award away, statistical analyze and league finish agreed with voters 15 of 18 times or 83% of the time.

What do you mean Messi was excluded from vote?
Also, there has been a LFP best player award since 2009-2010? Never heard of it.

[Harmonica]

Premier League

14-15 PFA Hazard, Whoscored Hazard 7,96
13-14 PFA Suarez, Whoscored Suarez 8,43
12-13 PFA Bale, Whoscored Bale 7,92
11-12 PFA Van Persie, Whoscored Van Persie 7,80
10-11 PFA Bale, Whoscored Nani 7,71 (Bale #18 7,38), Nani won league, Bale 4th
09-10 PFA Rooney, Whoscored Drogba 8,32 (Rooney #4 7.91), Drogba won league, Rooney 2nd

La Liga

14-15 LFP Messi, Whoscored Messi 8,84
13-14 LFP Cronaldo, Whoscored Messi 8,34 (Cronaldo #2 8,27), Messi excluded from vote by Perez
12-13 LFP Messi, Whoscored Messi 8,83
11-12 LFP Messi, Whoscored Messi 8,88
10-11 LFP Messi, Whoscored Messi 8,76
09-10 LFP Messi, Whoscored Messi 8,67

Serie A

14-15 AIC Tevez, Whoscored Vazquez 7,74 (Tevez #3 7,66)
13-14 AIC Pirlo, Whoscored Cuadrado 7,71 (Pirlo #6 7,56)
12-13 AIC Pirlo, Whoscored Pirlo 7,82
11-12 AIC Pirlo, Whoscored Zlatan 8,14 (Pirlo #2 7,88)
10-11 AIC Zlatan, Whoscored Lucio 7,77 (Zlatan #4 7,60)
09-10 AIC Milito, Whoscored Lucio 7,76 (Milito #16 7,47), both won the league

Based on statistical analyse and league finish (if rating is close), only 3 seasons appears to be controversial.

PFA 09-10, 10-11
LFP 13-14 (only controversial because Messi was excluded from vote, Messi would have probably won it otherwise)
AIC 09-10

If we take the Cronaldo's stolen award away, statistical analyze and league finish agreed with voters 15 of 18 times or 83% of the time.

What do you mean Messi was excluded from vote?
Also, there has been a LFP best player award since 2009-2010? Never heard of it.

LFP didn't include Messi in the team of the year, so they couldn't vote him. It's in line for invented Cronaldo awards like MVP (12-13) and Fans Five Star award (14-15).

Yes, from 08-09 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LFP_Awards

[free_cat]

What?? in 13-14 Messi wasn't selected as one of the top 3 attacking midfielders or strikers in the League. What a joke.
Only surpassed by the joke of him not being selected as best player of a month ever by LFP.
Thanks for the info.

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