Re: Is Lionel Messi Over Glorified?

by kiranr Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:51 am

The claim which TMO seeks to examine is weak.

Maybe a handful of people have said Messi is the greatest ever. Do you need an article full of hyperbole to prove that is not the case?

by rwo power Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:57 am

"greatest ever" is a funny term in any case. I think there have been quite a lot of "greatest ever" in any era. Just wait for the next "greatest ever" to show up Very Happy

by Giggslegend Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:10 pm

The Madrid One wrote:
Giggslegend wrote:he is not overated imo. Going to win ballon d´or for a third consecutive season for a reason..

He scored 50ish goals and delivered 30ish assists during last season, wich other player in history creates nearly 100 goals during a season while being the UCL top scorer aswell.

He is the king of el classico´s with his 13 goals in 15 games against madrid (don´t think this include the supercopa) and when you watch him play its mesmerising some times.

Yes he is not a great header of the ball but his overall game is still out of this world
he would do none of that without his team as would any player. hes the best player in the planet because of barca thatss the point of the story, but some people dont understand and take it too far, thus making him overated, which i think is the most case in most people who dont know how to judge.

hes the best player in the world for various reasons.

but dont take it farther than it should be by portraying him as a god.

thats why i also brought in cr7 hes like the exact opposite of messi in the public's eyes but look at all his INDIVIDUAL TITLES but lack of team success.

top scorer in la liga and premier league and a very complete player, but the lack of team success to take him to ballon d or once again.

who ever wins titles wins ballon dor. thats obvious right

Then answear me this question, what do xaviesta or barca got to do with messi dribling 3 madrid players and netting @ bernabeu in the semis of the UCL? all out of nothing, even erik djemba djemba could make that simple pass to messi before he scored that goal..

by alexjanosik Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:40 pm

The Madrid One wrote:
Nishank wrote:He aint overrated, If he is overrated than im sorry i don't know what Ronaldo would be..
hes overated yes or no depending on how you see him, and how others see him.

if people regard him as the best player in the world at the moment then hes not overrated because hes proved that he is the most complete player in the world at the moment.

but if people think hes the greatest of all time i think it would only be because of what he has won and his part in it, the ENORMOUS success, he hasnt done anything for argentina, but everyone overlooks it because of what hes done for barca. If its just because of his success then he is overated, if youre rating him by skills i cant find a way that hes better than ALL or even a majority of all time greats like Thierry Henry, Diego Maradona, Ronaldo, Pele, Di Stefano.

messi will retire as an all time great but just because he wins 10 cls or something that doesnt mean hes the best. it means he was in the right time and in the right place. what says anyone else wouldnt be able to do the same in the same circumstances, some might take this as something irrelevant but i cant find a way that it is like that...

all the all time greats have been so because of a combination of trophies, influence, and skills, and just by looking at that.. messi will never be rated as the best.

Success: no world cup wins, minimal impact in nt, dont know what would happen in a team that wasnt made for him. hes effect on the game other than scoring goals and winning WITH HIS team is minimal.

Skill: hes not more skilled than all of the hundreds of football players theres ever been.

Out of curiosity name these hundreds of players who are as skilled as Messi.
And of the players you mentioned only Di Stefano and Cruyff are more complete.

by The Franchise Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:42 pm

Cant have it both ways.

When is he great at Barca, its because of having this user friendly set up with great teammates.

But when he isnt good for Argentina its all on him.

What would happen if all of a sudden a Xavi, Iniesta and Pique come out of Argentina? When Messi and these news players win things, Messi wont get the credit, people like you will say its because of his teammates.

I dont get why people say he isnt good for Argentina anyway, he is nearly always their best player by a distance. He isnt Barca Messi where he is scoring goals all the time, but that is clearly more to do with his position in the field then anything Messi is doing worse.

This Barca Messi, hardly anyone in history can do what he is doing for Barca.

by ChollaVille Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:11 pm

is "Teh Madrid One" biggest Barca hater on this forum?
Yes he is... sore looser (:

by billy_gr Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:34 pm

I like this Messi guy.
he's decent

by BarrileteCosmico Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:58 pm

A) Now your whole argument is based on the fact Messi is not as "complete" as others. You argue that since he's not as good at heading as other forwards* then that must mean that he's overrated. The argument is ludicrous in many ways, but mainly in the way that you are judging the best player. The best players are not judged for their individual skills, but about how a player uses his skills to become decisive - and there is little doubt that Messi is one of the most decisive players of all time. He's what you call a "different" player - the kind that seals a match in the blink of an eye. That's the quality of the "best player".

Consider the following statement Kaka made: "I'm not the great artist Maradona was, I'm more complete". If we were to follow your logic then that must mean Kaka is a better player.

B) Another point in which I disagree with your analysis is that you're judging Messi and comparing him to other CFs, when Messi has evolved to be so much more than that. He blurs the line between a CF and an AM, leaving only very few players that could be compared with him in that position (Cruyff, Totti). You also ignored all the traits that a player of this position needs, such as an exceptional final pass which very few of the people you have compared him have.

C) Now your second point is that Messi is in a team that is tailor made for him which means that somehow this makes Messi look better than he is. I'm sorry, what? Granted, not everyone is as lucky to be in a team in which the tactical genius of Pep Guardiola brings out the best of nearly every player, but it's still Messi playing in the pitch. He's not made to look better than he is, he is playing at his potential.

*Which is a false statement, Messi is pretty good at heading, but rarely gets into a position to do it because of his height, there is a key difference between the two - he usually makes up for his lack of height with speed and technique, see the CL goal against United for further proof.

by EarlyPrototype Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:59 pm

of course he is

by The Madrid One Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:15 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:A) Now your whole argument is based on the fact Messi is not as "complete" as others. You argue that since he's not as good at heading as other forwards* then that must mean that he's overrated. The argument is ludicrous in many ways, but mainly in the way that you are judging the best player. The best players are not judged for their individual skills, but about how a player uses his skills to become decisive - and there is little doubt that Messi is one of the most decisive players of all time. He's what you call a "different" player - the kind that seals a match in the blink of an eye. That's the quality of the "best player".

Consider the following statement Kaka made: "I'm not the great artist Maradona was, I'm more complete". If we were to follow your logic then that must mean Kaka is a better player.

B) Another point in which I disagree with your analysis is that you're judging Messi and comparing him to other CFs, when Messi has evolved to be so much more than that. He blurs the line between a CF and an AM, leaving only very few players that could be compared with him in that position (Cruyff, Totti). You also ignored all the traits that a player of this position needs, such as an exceptional final pass which very few of the people you have compared him have.

C) Now your second point is that Messi is in a team that is tailor made for him which means that somehow this makes Messi look better than he is. I'm sorry, what? Granted, not everyone is as lucky to be in a team in which the tactical genius of Pep Guardiola brings out the best of nearly every player, but it's still Messi playing in the pitch. He's not made to look better than he is, he is playing at his potential.

*Which is a false statement, Messi is pretty good at heading, but rarely gets into a position to do it because of his height, there is a key difference between the two - he usually makes up for his lack of height with speed and technique, see the CL goal against United for further proof.

First of all you havent understood my argument.. which is to discuss whether he is over glorified or gloated too far by others. When i compare him to other players i use various areas to compare him to other players. Its obvious that he isnt the most complete player of all time.. but i use that as a guiding tool to rank a player...

towards point b hes a special type of forward in a special type of system that leads him the unveil his maximum potential because of the people around him. i made it clear in the 1st post that i think any of the past greats would do just as well in equally as good situations.

c. thats not my point, nor is it the point of the thread.

you like surag think im putting him down ny nit picking on his nt performances and judging him on that.. no im using that as a guidance to help compare his performances... he doesnt have the same players around him.. thus he doesnt produce the world beater performances that you would use to call someone number 1 in the world.

this makes him "look better than he is" because by what i can see messi can only do what he doest to his biggest potential with barcelona, and what he has done for barcelona has already made many people put him over many greats. thats one example of over gloating.

[You think messi would do the same in the premier league? hes never even looked close to "messi" in the nt. This leads me to the conclusion.. his team mates make him perform at a higher level but individually could he do that with anyone else?

the success he has garnered has put him there, because hes in the best team in the world, put henry or ronaldo in there and they would prob do just as well or better. so why put him in a different league as many do as to jump ton conclusions.

by Albiceleste Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:32 pm

The Madrid One wrote:Please Read Article Before Voting, wont take more than 5 mins.

Warning: If You Can Not Sustain a civilized conversation discussing the way Lionel Messi is thought of and looked at without going crazy then look away.

Simple Question Do you think the majority of people look at messi in a too much of a gloated way. read the article to understand what i mean.

Now Success is the principle tool i see people use, and people have always used to determine how good a player is. Effectiveness on the pitch is key to how you will go down in history, effectiveness and what you do on the pitch, what you win on the pitch and how you do it is what you get judged by. That is success, that is the benchmark, but can that way of looking at things inflate the level of greatness a player is looked by as having by others?

I think yes.

Now Lionel messi has won 3 champions league titles with Barcelona, hes won so many titles that he can probably go down among the ten most successful club players of all time, that success that he has earned and participated in has earned him the privilege to be looked at as not only the best football player on the planet, but by many as a sort of *god*, his effectiveness on the pitch aided by the fact that he works in the most "USER FRIENDLY" surrounding a player of his caliber has ever been in, augments how greatly people look at him.

He has earned his placement among the all time greats, his effectiveness and his abilities as a player have taken him there, but has that overrated him in a way? He is the best player in the world BECAUSE he is part of the best team in the world.. whats to say he would be able to do this in any other team??

Now you might ask yourself, what's the point in all of this.. hes seen as a great.. because hes done great things.. but How do you people rank a player? by what he has achieved, his skills, or a combination of both?

What is to say that other "complete" players, complete forwards such as maradona,pele,di stefano, Ronaldo el fenomeno, thierry henry, etc, wouldn't be as successful as him?

THE POINT OF THIS THREAD is to highlight the fact that Barcelona, and the success that Barcelona have brought to messi, makes messi look better than he is. Messi is young and he deserves MUCH of the praise that he gets, because he has had part in Barcelona's success because the team is basically made around him, this is why he gets all the praise, but does this really make him THE GREATEST PLAYER EVER? just because of the success he has had mainly due to his team? hes lucky hes been part of a project that he is the main star of, he is basically the utter PERFECT example of everything coming together, but that does overate him because many already consider him the best ever.. we have all heard it before but is he really?

Heading
Striking
Speed
Consistency
Mentality
Strength
Skills

All things to judge a player by, but if you look at him and compare him to other players.. well lets look at it..

Messi would lose out in places like heading,striking,speed, strength to countless of all time great forwards..

consistency? skills?

In what way is messi better than a guy like henry? or ronaldo el fenomeno? other than he can go past players and dribble possibly better than any of them? is he as complete as a player as other greats have been?

NO

he isnt in my opinion even close to being the most complete player there has ever been, i can look at thierry henry and ronaldo and ask my self.. why are these people already being overlooked at because of the SUCCESS that messi has endured? what is to say that a guy like ronaldo, or henry would not score as many goals or have the same success that messi has had in EQUALLY AS USER FRIENDLY teams...

Messi has absolutely nothing in argentina.. of course he hasnt had the privilege of being in as SUCCESSFUL national teams as henry or ronaldo were, so people ignore that, no matter how much he wins in a club some people wont even consider him top 10 if he doesnt win anything with argentina because he didnt "prove"him self there..

SUCCESS is not the only indicator of how good a player is.

Ask your self is lionel messi really the greatest, most complete player ever?

he simply isnt.

Put Thierry Henry, Diego Maradona, Ronaldo, even CR7 in as equal as successful teams as messi and they will get the same praise.. because they would score just as much.. and do just as much...

Messi is in no way the best player ever, he is a great player but BARCELONA makes him look better than he is as bold as it may sound, because of the success hes had, there have been more complete players that have had a broader range of success and are thus considered greats.. what makes messi as good as everyone thinks he is..( best player of all time )

If success is the factor that makes one brilliant only then in my eyes PELE,MARADONA,RONALDO, EVEN HENRY would all be over messi.

if it comes to being a complete player.. All of them would be over messi as well.. sure messi can dribble but all those players have more pros than cons on their side than messi...

VERDICT: Messi is overrated in his own little way. He is not the best player ever. and nor will he end up as the most successful. IF you are gonna judge him by titles to see how good he is, HE NEEDS THAT WORLD CUP.

It is impossible to name the all time great.. you can judge the player by the huge success one has and the time he has it but it all depends WHAT you rate a player by. Thats a key theme. you may have your own judgement of a player and his effects on the game, but all this would make messi a small fish in a GIANT pond.. the effect PELE had on football PERIOD.. the effect that CRYUFF had as a philosopher..on the field and off it... The Brutal Freak of nature henry and ronaldo were.. messi is just a lucky child to be part of the most successful MODERN PROJECT in history.

This post is completely filled with bias, it's pretty ridiculous some of the things said in here, seems to me like a troll thread frankly.

by Lord Awesome Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:34 pm

You don't see make these or agree with them but I'm still a closet RM fan.

by The Madrid One Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:41 pm

Lionel Messi wrote:
The Madrid One wrote:Please Read Article Before Voting, wont take more than 5 mins.

Warning: If You Can Not Sustain a civilized conversation discussing the way Lionel Messi is thought of and looked at without going crazy then look away.

Simple Question Do you think the majority of people look at messi in a too much of a gloated way. read the article to understand what i mean.

Now Success is the principle tool i see people use, and people have always used to determine how good a player is. Effectiveness on the pitch is key to how you will go down in history, effectiveness and what you do on the pitch, what you win on the pitch and how you do it is what you get judged by. That is success, that is the benchmark, but can that way of looking at things inflate the level of greatness a player is looked by as having by others?

I think yes.

Now Lionel messi has won 3 champions league titles with Barcelona, hes won so many titles that he can probably go down among the ten most successful club players of all time, that success that he has earned and participated in has earned him the privilege to be looked at as not only the best football player on the planet, but by many as a sort of *god*, his effectiveness on the pitch aided by the fact that he works in the most "USER FRIENDLY" surrounding a player of his caliber has ever been in, augments how greatly people look at him.

He has earned his placement among the all time greats, his effectiveness and his abilities as a player have taken him there, but has that overrated him in a way? He is the best player in the world BECAUSE he is part of the best team in the world.. whats to say he would be able to do this in any other team??

Now you might ask yourself, what's the point in all of this.. hes seen as a great.. because hes done great things.. but How do you people rank a player? by what he has achieved, his skills, or a combination of both?

What is to say that other "complete" players, complete forwards such as maradona,pele,di stefano, Ronaldo el fenomeno, thierry henry, etc, wouldn't be as successful as him?

THE POINT OF THIS THREAD is to highlight the fact that Barcelona, and the success that Barcelona have brought to messi, makes messi look better than he is. Messi is young and he deserves MUCH of the praise that he gets, because he has had part in Barcelona's success because the team is basically made around him, this is why he gets all the praise, but does this really make him THE GREATEST PLAYER EVER? just because of the success he has had mainly due to his team? hes lucky hes been part of a project that he is the main star of, he is basically the utter PERFECT example of everything coming together, but that does overate him because many already consider him the best ever.. we have all heard it before but is he really?

Heading
Striking
Speed
Consistency
Mentality
Strength
Skills

All things to judge a player by, but if you look at him and compare him to other players.. well lets look at it..

Messi would lose out in places like heading,striking,speed, strength to countless of all time great forwards..

consistency? skills?

In what way is messi better than a guy like henry? or ronaldo el fenomeno? other than he can go past players and dribble possibly better than any of them? is he as complete as a player as other greats have been?

NO

he isnt in my opinion even close to being the most complete player there has ever been, i can look at thierry henry and ronaldo and ask my self.. why are these people already being overlooked at because of the SUCCESS that messi has endured? what is to say that a guy like ronaldo, or henry would not score as many goals or have the same success that messi has had in EQUALLY AS USER FRIENDLY teams...

Messi has absolutely nothing in argentina.. of course he hasnt had the privilege of being in as SUCCESSFUL national teams as henry or ronaldo were, so people ignore that, no matter how much he wins in a club some people wont even consider him top 10 if he doesnt win anything with argentina because he didnt "prove"him self there..

SUCCESS is not the only indicator of how good a player is.

Ask your self is lionel messi really the greatest, most complete player ever?

he simply isnt.

Put Thierry Henry, Diego Maradona, Ronaldo, even CR7 in as equal as successful teams as messi and they will get the same praise.. because they would score just as much.. and do just as much...

Messi is in no way the best player ever, he is a great player but BARCELONA makes him look better than he is as bold as it may sound, because of the success hes had, there have been more complete players that have had a broader range of success and are thus considered greats.. what makes messi as good as everyone thinks he is..( best player of all time )

If success is the factor that makes one brilliant only then in my eyes PELE,MARADONA,RONALDO, EVEN HENRY would all be over messi.

if it comes to being a complete player.. All of them would be over messi as well.. sure messi can dribble but all those players have more pros than cons on their side than messi...

VERDICT: Messi is overrated in his own little way. He is not the best player ever. and nor will he end up as the most successful. IF you are gonna judge him by titles to see how good he is, HE NEEDS THAT WORLD CUP.

It is impossible to name the all time great.. you can judge the player by the huge success one has and the time he has it but it all depends WHAT you rate a player by. Thats a key theme. you may have your own judgement of a player and his effects on the game, but all this would make messi a small fish in a GIANT pond.. the effect PELE had on football PERIOD.. the effect that CRYUFF had as a philosopher..on the field and off it... The Brutal Freak of nature henry and ronaldo were.. messi is just a lucky child to be part of the most successful MODERN PROJECT in history.
This post is completely filled with bias, it's pretty ridiculous some of the things said in here, seems to me like a troll thread frankly.

whats the ridiculous and whats the bias?

by Ganso Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:42 pm

history wise,yes.atm no.

I know most people dont think this way,but imo a WC is needed to be a all time great in the ranks of pele,maradona,R9 etc

by The Madrid One Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:46 pm

Ganso wrote:history wise,yes.atm no.

I know most people dont think this way,but imo a WC is needed to be a all time great in the ranks of pele,maradona,R9 etc

no you are right, because being an all time great doesnt only rely on skills but on the success and i explained that.

for the most part anyone attacking me directly or pointing ad things and calling them ridiculous without actually discussing are just butthurt and i dont even take those comments under any consideration.

to be an all time great he has to win the world cup and have something big to do with the winning of it. being part of this barcelona has led him to titles, and since its perfect for him he shows his worth but technicially skills wise and success wise i dont know why people already putting him up there without thinking.

look at guys like thierry henry, that one guy lazio questioned me even mentioning him.. henry is a technically superior footballer to messi and hes won everything, yet 90 percent of the brainless will say messi is better. and people dont like hearing this. put henry is an equal is perfect situation and its impossible not to see him score 50.

by jibers Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:47 pm

The amount of jelousy on this forum, especially froom Madrid fans is unreal. If it was Ronaldo getting all this praise, I don't think anyone of you would complain. Messi is the best player in the word, and has been for about 4 years straight. When professional players such as Souness, even some of Maradonas teamates, are saying Messi is the best player of all time, you sort of have to sit up and take notice. He is the second best player I have ever seen behind Maradona. The whole performed at national level is BS, Messi is the only creative force for Argentina. At club level, he is the most consisitent player I have ever seen. Maradona carried Argentina? I watched all of their games and he did no such thing. Argentinas success was largely due to them playing an unknown formation that no one knew about.

His NT performances mean sod all. He is still his NT best player and is their single creator, Mark him out and they are gone. Much like Maradona was man marked by gentile in the 90 final. People saying he is lucky to be in Barceona are flipping stupid. Messi was carrying that team in Rijkaards last year, so much so that even though he was injured for half the season, he still managed to come second in the balon d'or. Barcelona are lucky to have him. Messi is integral to one of the best footballing teams of all time. Did Barcelonas luck assist him when he shredded Madrid and Porto in two?

When he dissected us in two champions league finals? Club performances trump NT performances. Except you want to tell me that DI stefano isn't one of the best of all time? The envy of people on this forum is just unreal. And to people saying that anyone woud do amazing at Barca, Eto, Ibra, Henry and now Villa have played/currently playing and have any of them ever scored 40+ goals? Get real.

by Rebaño Sagrado Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:48 pm

Ganso wrote:history wise,yes.atm no.

I know most people dont think this way,but imo a WC is needed to be a all time great in the ranks of pele,maradona,R9 etc

Cruyff

Let Messi finish his career and then will see where he is in history... I consider him an all time great but not THE all time great atm

by Albiceleste Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:50 pm

Seems like you're just hating and trying to put make it seem like Barcelona carried Messi to his success and he's just riding off of it, Messi is one of the main reasons that Barcelona are so good and one of the best teams of all time. You even went to say that C.Ronaldo would do just as well as Messi if he had success like Messi, which is pretty outlandish. Anyway, how is Messi not a complete player? He is a world class passer, one of the best dribblers of all time and his goalscoring record speaks for itself, just because he doesn't score headers all the time or score a 35 yard goal every other season doesn't make him less complete.

You're pretty much in the OP trying to discredit Messi as much as possible and trying to steer the praise he recieves and make it seem like it's down to "Barcelona's Success", well man, he IS Barcelona, he is MotM nearly every game and scored more goals than the other two starting forwards combined last season as well as grabbing 25+ assists. Messi is praised because of his goalscoring record, assistance record, and all the things on the pitch he does that you can't see in statistics. People will remember this Barcelona for their style of play and for having one of the best club players of all time, they will remember Barcelona's dominance over 3+ seasons and will remember how Messi scored 4 goals against Arsenal or how he dribbled RMs entire defense to give Barcelona a 2 goal lead going to the camp nou in the UCL semi final/

by jibers Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:51 pm

The Madrid One wrote:
Ganso wrote:history wise,yes.atm no.

I know most people dont think this way,but imo a WC is needed to be a all time great in the ranks of pele,maradona,R9 etc
no you are right, because being an all time great doesnt only rely on skills but on the success and i explained that.

for the most part anyone attacking me directly or pointing ad things and calling them ridiculous without actually discussing are just butthurt and i dont even take those comments under any consideration.

to be an all time great he has to win the world cup and have something big to do with the winning of it. being part of this barcelona has led him to titles, and since its perfect for him he shows his worth but technicially skills wise and success wise i dont know why people already putting him up there without thinking.

look at guys like thierry henry, that one guy lazio questioned me even mentioning him.. henry is a technically superior footballer to messi and hes won everything, yet 90 percent of the brainless will say messi is better. and people dont like hearing this. put henry is an equal is perfect situation and its impossible not to see him score 50.

No one is going to take you seriously.

by jibers Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:52 pm

Lionel Messi wrote:Seems like you're just hating and trying to put make it seem like Barcelona carried Messi to his success and he's just riding off of it, Messi is one of the main reasons that Barcelona are so good and one of the best teams of all time. You even went to say that C.Ronaldo would do just as well as Messi if he had success like Messi, which is pretty outlandish. Anyway, how is Messi not a complete player? He is a world class passer, one of the best dribblers of all time and his goalscoring record speaks for itself, just because he doesn't score headers all the time or score a 35 yard goal every other season doesn't make him less complete.

You're pretty much in the OP trying to discredit Messi as much as possible and trying to steer the praise he recieves and make it seem like it's down to "Barcelona's Success", well man, he IS Barcelona, he is MotM nearly every game and scored more goals than the other two starting forwards combined last season as well as grabbing 25+ assists. Messi is praised because of his goalscoring record, assistance record, and all the things on the pitch he does that you can't see in statistics. People will remember this Barcelona for their style of play and for having one of the best club players of all time, they will remember Barcelona's dominance over 3+ seasons and will remember how Messi scored 4 goals against Arsenal or how he dribbled RMs entire defense to give Barcelona a 2 goal lead going to the camp nou in the UCL semi final/

The hate on Messi is ridiculous. Souness, a aman that has three champions league and was in one of the best teams of all time, has played against maradona, said Messi is the best player he has ever seen, who the hell are you? henry technically superior to messi....I died a little inside

by billionmillion Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:54 pm

Again this 17 years old CR fanboy makes a thread about Messi. You want to make cr to look good making these threads but you are not so professional at this. Huntsman or Floren would do it better. Your arguments here are ridiculous even for some true Madrid fans

As i posted in another thread

"Which great didnt have great team-mates? R9, Pele, Zidane, Cryuff which one was alone? problem is that messi has these names only in club team, but other greats had great names in national team too. well you are going to say messi also has great names in national team, but which one of them is in garrincha, rivaldo, ronaldinho, henry, viera, r.carlos, l.enriques, figo etc. level? these are team-mates that won or could win ballon dors, but in argentina squad theres only 1 man who can win ballon dor. And its Messi (pretty alone)"

by Rebaño Sagrado Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:55 pm

Lionel Messi wrote:Seems like you're just hating and trying to put make it seem like Barcelona carried Messi to his success and he's just riding off of it, Messi is one of the main reasons that Barcelona are so good and one of the best teams of all time. You even went to say that C.Ronaldo would do just as well as Messi if he had success like Messi, which is pretty outlandish. Anyway, how is Messi not a complete player? He is a world class passer, one of the best dribblers of all time and his goalscoring record speaks for itself, just because he doesn't score headers all the time or score a 35 yard goal every other season doesn't make him less complete.

You're pretty much in the OP trying to discredit Messi as much as possible and trying to steer the praise he recieves and make it seem like it's down to "Barcelona's Success", well man, he IS Barcelona, he is MotM nearly every game and scored more goals than the other two starting forwards combined last season as well as grabbing 25+ assists. Messi is praised because of his goalscoring record, assistance record, and all the things on the pitch he does that you can't see in statistics. People will remember this Barcelona for their style of play and for having one of the best club players of all time, they will remember Barcelona's dominance over 3+ seasons and will remember how Messi scored 4 goals against Arsenal or how he dribbled RMs entire defense to give Barcelona a 2 goal lead going to the camp nou in the UCL semi final/

Pepe?

by jibers Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:56 pm

MARADONA>messi wrote:
Ganso wrote:history wise,yes.atm no.

I know most people dont think this way,but imo a WC is needed to be a all time great in the ranks of pele,maradona,R9 etc

Cruyff

Let Messi finish his career and then will see where he is in history... I consider him an all time great but not THE all time great atm

Cruyff, Di Stefano, Baggio. people just talk crap. Winning a WC is a good way to validate greatness, not having one doesn't discredit you. Messi this season has wounded Madrid, Porto, came on for 30 minutes and slaughtered Napoli. You can't make these things up. He dominates big teams. United, Real Madrid, Arsenal, all torn to shreds. Most consistent cub player I have ever seen bar none.

by Albiceleste Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:57 pm

The Madrid One wrote:
Ganso wrote:history wise,yes.atm no.

I know most people dont think this way,but imo a WC is needed to be a all time great in the ranks of pele,maradona,R9 etc
no you are right, because being an all time great doesnt only rely on skills but on the success and i explained that.

for the most part anyone attacking me directly or pointing ad things and calling them ridiculous without actually discussing are just butthurt and i dont even take those comments under any consideration.

to be an all time great he has to win the world cup and have something big to do with the winning of it. being part of this barcelona has led him to titles, and since its perfect for him he shows his worth but technicially skills wise and success wise i dont know why people already putting him up there without thinking.

look at guys like thierry henry, that one guy lazio questioned me even mentioning him.. henry is a technically superior footballer to messi and hes won everything, yet 90 percent of the brainless will say messi is better. and people dont like hearing this. put henry is an equal is perfect situation and its impossible not to see him score 50.

can't take you seriously man, are you trolling?

Anyway, you can argue Messi vs Henry all day but I don't think it's a contest, Messi is a better footballer than him, simple as that, you can't just say he's not because you think that he would be able to do similar things in a similar situation.

by The Madrid One Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:57 pm

jibers you said that people already rate him the best ever and you see through that and declare other things to be outlandish..

is lionel messi really the most technically gifted footballer ever.. individually is he really the best?

@messi i already told you and gave you the clear facts compare both his performances in argentina and barca he does more in barca because of his team mates.

all this success has elevated him to other grounds.. can you really tell me messi could do what he does in any league to its fullest potential..

cant believe it. messi is such a god for so many.. hes the greatest player in the world because of his team.. if cr7 won cl and everything then hed be the best player.

propaganda and misunderstanding makes messi look better than he is.

yes call me crazy if it makes you happier.

look at your posts messi and others.. i dont care at your attempts to put my own thinking down, if you dont agree then leave because you never will.. but messi's magical numbers and status is elevated because of the success, reading your posts you guys really idolize him.. its impossible to say anyone is better than him in your eyes huh...

lol messi will only be the best ever for the delusional.

by jibers Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:59 pm

billionmillion wrote:Again this 17 years old CR fanboy makes a thread about Messi. You want to make cr to look good making these threads but you are not so professional at this. Huntsman or Floren would do it better. Your arguments here are ridiculous even for some true Madrid fans

As i posted in another thread

"Which great didnt have great team-mates? R9, Pele, Zidane, Cryuff which one was alone? problem is that messi has these names only in club team, but other greats had great names in national team too. well you are going to say messi also has great names in national team, but which one of them is in garrincha, rivaldo, ronaldinho, henry, viera, r.carlos, l.enriques, figo etc. level? these are team-mates that won or could win ballon dors, but in argentina squad theres only 1 man who can win ballon dor. And its Messi (pretty alone)"

exactly. Tbh Madrid fans are just bitter that Messi has ripped them apart consistently. They are being humiliated on and off the pitch.

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