The Madrid One wrote:

Lionel Messi wrote:

The Madrid One wrote:look at his individual performance, he scored 2 wc final goals. you think im discretiding what messi does.. no i am giving an explanation as to why he is as effective as he is and why all the success that comes with that gloats him a bit.

It's not like there is a man with a remote controlling Messi from the stands, Messi is effective as he is because of himself and nobody else, he brought this success upon himself, it wasn't handed to him for free.

hes effective because of his team, why doesnt he do the same for argentina?


we all know messi is technically brilliant but when youre at a team that magnifies what you can do youre are zoomed in into looking even better than you are.. it applies to any player.. why are people being so defensive and going to attack me personnally when what im saying makes perfect sense..

you are kind of saying that messi is better than ronaldo because he has 3 cls, what if ronaldo had 3 cls you wouldnt jump that soon to conclusions, youre judging based on success and that elevates the way you look at him thus making him a bit gloated.

understand?

Uh, so is Di Stefano not an all time great because he won 5 European Championships but nothing with the NT?

If R9 never won a WC he wouldn't be an all time great, isn't that judging someone by their success according to you? So anyone that has been successful at all is "gloated" using your logic

Seems like this is going to be the entertainment thread of the evening..

Why are we metioning Di Stefano?

Lionel Messi wrote:

The Madrid One wrote:

Lionel Messi wrote:

The Madrid One wrote:look at his individual performance, he scored 2 wc final goals. you think im discretiding what messi does.. no i am giving an explanation as to why he is as effective as he is and why all the success that comes with that gloats him a bit.

It's not like there is a man with a remote controlling Messi from the stands, Messi is effective as he is because of himself and nobody else, he brought this success upon himself, it wasn't handed to him for free.

hes effective because of his team, why doesnt he do the same for argentina?


we all know messi is technically brilliant but when youre at a team that magnifies what you can do youre are zoomed in into looking even better than you are.. it applies to any player.. why are people being so defensive and going to attack me personnally when what im saying makes perfect sense..

you are kind of saying that messi is better than ronaldo because he has 3 cls, what if ronaldo had 3 cls you wouldnt jump that soon to conclusions, youre judging based on success and that elevates the way you look at him thus making him a bit gloated.

understand?

Uh, so is Di Stefano not an all time great because he won 5 European Championships but nothing with the NT?

If R9 never won a WC he wouldn't be an all time great, isn't that judging someone by their success according to you? So anyone that has been successful at all is "gloated" using your logic

is this really how you decide to try to make an arguement? putting words in my mouth or making assumptions?

a team' success magnifies how youre looked at, its the bitter truth and you will never beat me or manage to go around that face, im not saying anything ridiculous am i.. you are just left to make assumptions to try to win the discussion.. please..

why do you think henry never won a ballon d or? because arsenal didnt do enough, and thus he didnt do 100 percent of what he could do.


make a list of things that make messi better than

MARADONA
RONALDO
HENRY

etc other than titles.

Why are you guys arguing with TMO? The guy is 17 years old and claims that Messi is not technically complete.

Just ignore him, please!

Tits or GTHO. :lol!:

so everyone is quiet.. look at kiranr and lazio and etc trying to put me down by saying im 17 year old and stuff. that is disgraceful.. that is an attack to a person.. and ive done nothing as such in this whole thread. only thing ive done is post logical things that make sense.. but the fanboys regard it as hate just because im not kissing his ass as hard as i should.


im unbeatable because i have nothing to lose fellas, i put my opinion down on paper and i got your reactions.. lets see what you try to win from this..

Lord Hispano wrote:Tits or GTHO. :lol!:

You save the pic and you will tits

Saved.

The Madrid One wrote:

Lionel Messi wrote:

The Madrid One wrote:

Lionel Messi wrote:

The Madrid One wrote:look at his individual performance, he scored 2 wc final goals. you think im discretiding what messi does.. no i am giving an explanation as to why he is as effective as he is and why all the success that comes with that gloats him a bit.

It's not like there is a man with a remote controlling Messi from the stands, Messi is effective as he is because of himself and nobody else, he brought this success upon himself, it wasn't handed to him for free.

hes effective because of his team, why doesnt he do the same for argentina?


we all know messi is technically brilliant but when youre at a team that magnifies what you can do youre are zoomed in into looking even better than you are.. it applies to any player.. why are people being so defensive and going to attack me personnally when what im saying makes perfect sense..

you are kind of saying that messi is better than ronaldo because he has 3 cls, what if ronaldo had 3 cls you wouldnt jump that soon to conclusions, youre judging based on success and that elevates the way you look at him thus making him a bit gloated.

understand?

Uh, so is Di Stefano not an all time great because he won 5 European Championships but nothing with the NT?

If R9 never won a WC he wouldn't be an all time great, isn't that judging someone by their success according to you? So anyone that has been successful at all is "gloated" using your logic

is this really how you decide to try to make an arguement? putting words in my mouth or making assumptions?

a team' success magnifies how youre looked at, its the bitter truth and you will never beat me or manage to go around that face, im not saying anything ridiculous am i.. you are just left to make assumptions to try to win the discussion.. please..

why do you think henry never won a ballon d or? because arsenal didnt do enough, and thus he didnt do 100 percent of what he could do.


make a list of things that make messi better than

MARADONA
RONALDO
HENRY

etc other than titles.

I didn't put words in your mouth, I was simply using your logic to judge players since the way everyone else does it is wrong apparently

Lionel Messi wrote:

The Madrid One wrote:

Lionel Messi wrote:

The Madrid One wrote:

Lionel Messi wrote:

The Madrid One wrote:look at his individual performance, he scored 2 wc final goals. you think im discretiding what messi does.. no i am giving an explanation as to why he is as effective as he is and why all the success that comes with that gloats him a bit.

It's not like there is a man with a remote controlling Messi from the stands, Messi is effective as he is because of himself and nobody else, he brought this success upon himself, it wasn't handed to him for free.

hes effective because of his team, why doesnt he do the same for argentina?


we all know messi is technically brilliant but when youre at a team that magnifies what you can do youre are zoomed in into looking even better than you are.. it applies to any player.. why are people being so defensive and going to attack me personnally when what im saying makes perfect sense..

you are kind of saying that messi is better than ronaldo because he has 3 cls, what if ronaldo had 3 cls you wouldnt jump that soon to conclusions, youre judging based on success and that elevates the way you look at him thus making him a bit gloated.

understand?

Uh, so is Di Stefano not an all time great because he won 5 European Championships but nothing with the NT?

If R9 never won a WC he wouldn't be an all time great, isn't that judging someone by their success according to you? So anyone that has been successful at all is "gloated" using your logic

is this really how you decide to try to make an arguement? putting words in my mouth or making assumptions?

a team' success magnifies how youre looked at, its the bitter truth and you will never beat me or manage to go around that face, im not saying anything ridiculous am i.. you are just left to make assumptions to try to win the discussion.. please..

why do you think henry never won a ballon d or? because arsenal didnt do enough, and thus he didnt do 100 percent of what he could do.


make a list of things that make messi better than

MARADONA
RONALDO
HENRY

etc other than titles.

I didn't put words in your mouth, I was simply using your logic to judge players since the way everyone else does it is wrong apparently

you didnt answer the question...

i see you less agressive which means that you probably step back from making assumptions about towars what my point is. all the key point ive made here fall on any player not just on messi, so dont tantrum on me just because baby no likey or dont understandy

Lionel Messi you are also 17 or?

No but I'm out of this thread, I've come to the conclusion it's for trolling purposes only

The Madrid One wrote:so everyone is quiet.. look at kiranr and lazio and etc trying to put me down by saying im 17 year old and stuff. that is disgraceful.. that is an attack to a person.. and ive done nothing as such in this whole thread. only thing ive done is post logical things that make sense.. but the fanboys regard it as hate just because im not kissing his ass as hard as i should.


im unbeatable because i have nothing to lose fellas, i put my opinion down on paper and i got your reactions.. lets see what you try to win from this..

You've made some soid points TMO. Messi is glorified because of his performances by Bacelona and Rightly so. The truth is, if Barceona didn't win any trophies Messi ould still be called the best player in the world tbh. His consistency in the biggest games is what does it for me. You've seen the damage he can cause first hand. His play is backed up by his statistics.

Lionel Messi wrote:No but I'm out of this thread, I've come to the conclusion it's for trolling purposes only

my god man. wow so heres the main thing i see on people that decide to be fan boys.

there are people that have understood the meaning of it all like

zizzle,and hispano, and a few others who havnt posted.

there are those who are too @#@#@# to understand.

and then there are those who not only dont understand, but decide to make arguments and throw personal insults and tantrums because they dont like what they are reading, and when they notice that they cant do anything to my character they either decide to post picture of hot women's ass or run away you like your right now.

thank you for UNDERSTANDING, and DISCUSSING, about my topic because you did that very well. *sarcasm*

i have nothing to lose, im here to post my opinion so if anyone wants to talk, and actually talk then come here and do so, cause i have a much bigger integirty than maybe anyone in here, some little words over the internet which mean nothing wont stop me from posting anything, i have nothing to lose.

jibers wrote:

The Madrid One wrote:so everyone is quiet.. look at kiranr and lazio and etc trying to put me down by saying im 17 year old and stuff. that is disgraceful.. that is an attack to a person.. and ive done nothing as such in this whole thread. only thing ive done is post logical things that make sense.. but the fanboys regard it as hate just because im not kissing his ass as hard as i should.


im unbeatable because i have nothing to lose fellas, i put my opinion down on paper and i got your reactions.. lets see what you try to win from this..

You've made some soid points TMO. Messi is glorified because of his performances by Bacelona and Rightly so. The truth is, if Barceona didn't win any trophies Messi ould still be called the best player in the world tbh. His consistency in the biggest games is what does it for me. You've seen the damage he can cause first hand. His play is backed up by his statistics.

he is a tremendous player thats one of the first things i sad jibers, i think its unfair for people to insult me AHAH when i have not even done so to anyone even in this forum, just because they dont understand or dont want to. you seem less agressiv as well and i can see you maybe understand what im trying to say a bit more.

its a complex built around messi and thats a fact.

doesnt mean you should lynch me for stating my logical opinions guys.

Any time I said anything that differed from Messi being overrated I was immediately labelled brainless or deluded, yet I am the one that is not understanding?

Lionel Messi wrote:Any time I said anything that differed from Messi being overrated I was immediately labelled brainless or deluded, yet I am the one that is not understanding?

you were not labeled as such, and you clearly didnt understand my points, thats why you still havent answered the question i asked you, and you are trying to defend your self now based on how i treated you.

you simply did not understand and did not like it so you went away but then came back.

if you came back lets discuss instead of talking about that then. lets start by you answering that question..

as an individual messi is imo the best player in the world when hes with the right people, his decision making, and the fact that hes always there to make a difference make him a perfect asset to any team that can back him up.

but dont say that a whole team won because of him, its the other way around, but people build a complex on messi and decide hes something more than just a great world class player..

You should get to responding the page 3 posts before you say unarguably speak the truth, you ignored most of the posts in the thread

Lionel Messi wrote:You should get to responding the page 3 posts before you say unarguably speak the truth, you ignored most of the posts in the thread

you ignoring me right now. all those posts were made by people who did not understand my arguments and decided to attack me personally, that would be wasting my time messi.

i suggest you leave if you arent going to contribute because youre doing nothing here now except to try to expose my decisions as an individual in some way.

you think i care about what guys like surag,kiranr, the franchise, or anyone else said?

nothing important they either didnt understand the argument or insulted me because they couldnt or didnt want to deal with it.

if you have nothing else to do then i guess its futile for you to be here mate.


PAGE 3: GIOVANNI, LMG10, THE FRANCHISE, KIRANR, LAZIO,NWO POWER

all said either something not nessecary of a response or insulted me. no use messi

This thread is so stupid. It's basically two or three Madrid fans trying to come up with any kind of reason to discredit Messi.

Madrid fans should be the last group of fans to question Messi's skills. You have seen him be great more then any other group of fans and go head to head with the next best player in the world, his main competition and absolutley roast him.

Please let me see where anyone says Messi is the best footballer ever, because what I am reading ALMOST EVERYONE is saying he's the best in the world. Thats not debatable, try if you want but you just make yourself look ignorant.

It's pretty safe to say if he keeps this pace up for 6-8 more years he could be the best player ever. You people act like these other great players played for bad teams and just carried them on there back, it's not true the Arsenal's, Milan's, Juve's, Ajax, Real Madrid's of the past were great great teams.

Other players have come into Barca's system and not been successful. Ibra, Hleb, Villa(to an extent), Bojan, lots of defenders, Henry, Dos santos, I could go on and on. You are acting like if you just put on a Barca shirt you can be as good as Messi, that is not the case. Some of these players are good for Barca but Messi's level is just way above anyone else who plays for them.

As for Argentina, there are scores of world class players on that team and they ALL play under there club level for this national team. Kun Aguero, Tevez, Higuian, Di Maria, Mascherano, Pastore, Cambiasso, Zanetti etc etc. There is obviously something wrong with the structure of the team, it's not just a big coincidence that ALL of these players are world class for there club teams and can't re-create it for Argentina, Messi is the only one who gets crushed for it.

Messi has 2 -3 more World Cups in him, so anyone acting like he will never win one is just hating. He could never win one but I would think in the next 10-12 years Argentina will get it figured out and I wouldn't bet against Messi. Haters just say it now because it's the last straw they can point to in there quest to discredit Messi.

rwo power wrote:IMO Messi is practically unbeatable in his comfort zone at Barcelona where he is supported by players that understand him blindly. But as soon as he shows up in the national team and lacks the guys that fit perfectly with his style of play, he obviously loses much of his effectiveness as shown in his lack of goals and impact for the Argentinian team.

So this shows that he is not one who can carry a whole team on his shoulders, he needs a team to shine, unlike some of the older greats like Maradona or Pele.

_LMG_10_ wrote:He has no "lack of impact" for the Argentine team. Without him they wouldn't even be a team.
And the lack of goals is because he's not a forward like he is at Barcelona. He creates, he doesn't score.

Messi has been carrying that incomplete team on his shoulders for years now. We all saw how hard he plays for the NT Jersey. He gives 100%, and it's a shame they can't win a trophy considering how they just need to fill in some gaps in the team. They just need a playmaker and a couple defenders.

Giggslegend wrote:

The Madrid One wrote:

Giggslegend wrote:he is not overated imo. Going to win ballon d´or for a third consecutive season for a reason..

He scored 50ish goals and delivered 30ish assists during last season, wich other player in history creates nearly 100 goals during a season while being the UCL top scorer aswell.

He is the king of el classico´s with his 13 goals in 15 games against madrid (don´t think this include the supercopa) and when you watch him play its mesmerising some times.

Yes he is not a great header of the ball but his overall game is still out of this world

he would do none of that without his team as would any player. hes the best player in the planet because of barca thatss the point of the story, but some people dont understand and take it too far, thus making him overated, which i think is the most case in most people who dont know how to judge.

hes the best player in the world for various reasons.

but dont take it farther than it should be by portraying him as a god.

thats why i also brought in cr7 hes like the exact opposite of messi in the public's eyes but look at all his INDIVIDUAL TITLES but lack of team success.

top scorer in la liga and premier league and a very complete player, but the lack of team success to take him to ballon d or once again.

who ever wins titles wins ballon dor. thats obvious right

Then answear me this question, what do xaviesta or barca got to do with messi dribling 3 madrid players and netting @ bernabeu in the semis of the UCL? all out of nothing, even erik djemba djemba could make that simple pass to messi before he scored that goal..

alexjanosik wrote:

The Madrid One wrote:

Nishank wrote:He aint overrated, If he is overrated than im sorry i don't know what Ronaldo would be..

hes overated yes or no depending on how you see him, and how others see him.

if people regard him as the best player in the world at the moment then hes not overrated because hes proved that he is the most complete player in the world at the moment.

but if people think hes the greatest of all time i think it would only be because of what he has won and his part in it, the ENORMOUS success, he hasnt done anything for argentina, but everyone overlooks it because of what hes done for barca. If its just because of his success then he is overated, if youre rating him by skills i cant find a way that hes better than ALL or even a majority of all time greats like Thierry Henry, Diego Maradona, Ronaldo, Pele, Di Stefano.


messi will retire as an all time great but just because he wins 10 cls or something that doesnt mean hes the best. it means he was in the right time and in the right place. what says anyone else wouldnt be able to do the same in the same circumstances, some might take this as something irrelevant but i cant find a way that it is like that...

all the all time greats have been so because of a combination of trophies, influence, and skills, and just by looking at that.. messi will never be rated as the best.

Success: no world cup wins, minimal impact in nt, dont know what would happen in a team that wasnt made for him. hes effect on the game other than scoring goals and winning WITH HIS team is minimal.

Skill: hes not more skilled than all of the hundreds of football players theres ever been.

Out of curiosity name these hundreds of players who are as skilled as Messi.
And of the players you mentioned only Di Stefano and Cruyff are more complete.

The Franchise wrote:Cant have it both ways.

When is he great at Barca, its because of having this user friendly set up with great teammates.

But when he isnt good for Argentina its all on him.

What would happen if all of a sudden a Xavi, Iniesta and Pique come out of Argentina? When Messi and these news players win things, Messi wont get the credit, people like you will say its because of his teammates.


I dont get why people say he isnt good for Argentina anyway, he is nearly always their best player by a distance. He isnt Barca Messi where he is scoring goals all the time, but that is clearly more to do with his position in the field then anything Messi is doing worse.

This Barca Messi, hardly anyone in history can do what he is doing for Barca.

You should reply to these man.

Anyway, no Messi is not over glorified, he's not the greatest of all time yet, but he's well on his way to being the GOAT, he's only 24 years old.

The Madrid One wrote:as an individual messi is imo the best player in the world when hes with the right people, his decision making, and the fact that hes always there to make a difference make him a perfect asset to any team that can back him up.

but dont say that a whole team won because of him, its the other way around, but people build a complex on messi and decide hes something more than just a great world class player..

TMO thsi is where I disagree. Barcelona would not be where they are without Messi. They are intergral. Barcas recent success for me is down to

A. Guardiola
B. Messi.
C. Xavi

Look how many times Messi has saved them. Even in that season when they came third and won nothing he was carrying Barcelona dn when he got injured they did nothing. The truth is, Messi is the only player in the last four years that has been compared to the all time greats, and I think it's down to lack of outstanding footballers and competition. Messi has Ronaldo to deal with, and he is several levels above him. Xavi is his team mate and he overshadows him. Zidane, R9, Figo, Baggio, Laudrup, Davids, Scholes, Henry, Figo, Giggs, Bergkamp, Ronaldinho. I mean, each of those payers are Fifa Baon d'or candidates. The fact that a nobody like Ozil can be called one of the ebst playes in the world after a few decen seaosns sums up my point. The reason for all this is lack of competititon. there is just no one in his league. The gap in abilities is between Messi and his peers is more than the gap between Barcelona and other European teams. That is where Messi is fortunate (if you can call it that.) There are no outstanding players playing atm. That is one of the reasons that I thnk that people glorify him so much. Zidane, Figo, R9 and Ronaldinho had themsleves and noone stood out for a while.

Do you get my point?

Doesn't really matter what his heading is like. Barca don't play hoof ball or use crosses all the time.

In terms of consistency and all the others his the best in the World at them.

Ronaldo wouldn't be able to do what Messi does because he doesn't have much creativity.

However he still is the 2nd best player in the World.