lack of midfield creativity = need for creative forwards

Alonso, Khedira and Coentrao are more workhorse types... not a whole lot of creativity there in terms of beating a defender or dribbling to create a passing lane. Technically limited group.

Because of this, we need all 3 forwards to be creative. We actually cannot play this 3-man midfield any other way. That's why the trio of Cr7-Benz-Ozil are important. They don't need anyone to create for them as they can just do it themselves. All they need is for the midfield to take possession for them and get the ball at their feet past the midfield line in good conditions.

Di Maria has been a flop so far and lacks vision anyhow. Too individualistic... so he's not a solution.

Didn't realize how dependent we have become of these 3 until the last 3 games.

Sahin-Xabi-Coentrao/Khedira

Im still unsure if Mou is thinking about the 4-3-3 we alwaays talk about though

Ganso wrote:Sahin-Xabi-Coentrao/Khedira

Im still unsure if Mou is thinking about the 4-3-3 we alwaays talk about though

He is for sure. Di Maria played as a b2b midfielder more than a winger today and against Barca, which is one reason why he's stinking it up. The transition is already happening.

Sahin is a dream right now. Until we see him perform, he's not in the cards. If he actually wins the starting job, the CF can play more of a 9. But we might just stick to our current attacking format because it allows for the defense to be stronger without losing offense.

cr----benzema---ozil
xabi--sahin--khedira

=

(direct winger)--(powerful CF)--(creative AM)
(DLP)----(creative CM)--(box-box work horse)

i think its a great dynamic to have.. lots of versatility and im a big fan of the 4-3-3 btw

could be very dangerous but since we have yet to see sahin because of injury we will have to wait to see if he was brought in so we can play the 4-3-3.

my midfield argument is getting strong by minutes

Gotta say I liked Alex a lot when he played. Fit in quite well at CM.

deezydeez wrote:cr----benzema---ozil
xabi--sahin--khedira

=

(direct winger)--(powerful CF)--(creative AM)
(DLP)----(creative CM)--(box-box work horse)

i think its a great dynamic to have.. lots of versatility and im a big fan of the 4-3-3 btw

could be very dangerous but since we have yet to see sahin because of injury we will have to wait to see if he was brought in so we can play the 4-3-3.

Arent b2b players better used at centre of the midfield?

its really all semantics imo.. really just depends on what players are on the field because its the players themselves who sort out where they are playing.

particularly in madrid you will never see any of these players stick to their exact zonal position.

what i meant to say before i babbled is that it doesnt really matter if sahin and sami are switched, what is important is the midfield trio and attacking trio

Both Khedira and Alonso don't have to play if Sahin plays.

Alonso is creative, and expect to see sahin in midfield.
Khedira didn't play yesterday, but I feel that he has a creative spark and is often on the end of a useful one-two. Furthermore, Di Maria will be seen in midfield a lot as well.

No need for anything more.
Plus, and in all likelihood he'll be sold or loaned out, Gago is still there...

Lol, this threat is fulled with cute little Madrid fans who don't know what an uncreative midfield looks like if it hit them in the face.

Alonso > Mikel
khedira > Ramires
Ozil > Lampard
CR7 > Malouda
Di Maria > Anelka

In terms of creativity.

I would gladly take any of those players off your hands in order to improve our midfield.

Well yeah... I mean Chelsea has an aging lampard, a workhorse (ramirez) and bunch of destroyers. Issue is Lampard for you guys. He used to be the one that could create space with a dribble and make something out of nothing.

For us, that's supposed to be Sahin. Until he returns, we're set up kind of like the Chelsea midfield in terms of style:

Mikel plays like Coentrao. Mikel knows the midfield game. Coentrao is just learning
Khedira plays like Ramirez. Pure b2b. Khedira is a better passer, but Ramirez can get past a defender invidually with a dribble.
Alonso is our Lampard, except that he sits closer to the defense because he's a better deep passer.

The point is that none of our mids are capable of creating space and passing lanes individually. If pressed, they will struggle every time. Reason we're handling it better this year is that Mou brings the forwards way up to help if they're pressed because they can all participate in the buildup.

Chelsea has the same problem... Except the midfields are a EPL weakness. So it's not that problematic to resolve most times. In Spain, midfield play is the best in the world by a big margin.

EPL football mostly is end to end stuffs,midfield by passed football,you dont need great midfielders for that.reason why UTD won the EPL last year with that midfield.

sportsczy wrote:Well yeah... I mean Chelsea has an aging lampard, a workhorse (ramirez) and bunch of destroyers. Issue is Lampard for you guys. He used to be the one that could create space with a dribble and make something out of nothing.

For us, that's supposed to be Sahin. Until he returns, we're set up kind of like the Chelsea midfield in terms of style:

Mikel plays like Coentrao. Mikel knows the midfield game. Coentrao is just learning
Khedira plays like Ramirez. Pure b2b. Khedira is a better passer, but Ramirez can get past a defender invidually with a dribble.
Alonso is our Lampard, except that he sits closer to the defense because he's a better deep passer.

The point is that none of our mids are capable of creating space and passing lanes individually. If pressed, they will struggle every time. Reason we're handling it better this year is that Mou brings the forwards way up to help if they're pressed because they can all participate in the buildup.

Chelsea has the same problem... Except the midfields are a EPL weakness. So it's not that problematic to resolve most times. In Spain, midfield play is the best in the world by a big margin.

Wouldn't a midfield of Khedira Alonso and Ozil infront of them solve your problems?

I just don't understand how a team with players such as Madrids could ever be labeled as uncreative.

kick mars wrote:I just don't understand how a team with players such as Madrids could ever be labeled as uncreative.

Have one bad game = DISASTER!/SQUAD LIMITED/TEAM SUCKS/SACK COACH/RAMOS' FAULT/MARCELO'S FAULT/HIGUAIN'S FAULT/CRISTIANO IS BETTER THAN MESSI!/JEBUS WEPT!/KAKA IS JEBUS!

Senor Penguin wrote:

kick mars wrote:I just don't understand how a team with players such as Madrids could ever be labeled as uncreative.

Have one bad game = DISASTER!/SQUAD LIMITED/TEAM SUCKS/SACK COACH/RAMOS' FAULT/MARCELO'S FAULT/HIGUAIN'S FAULT/CRISTIANO IS BETTER THAN MESSI!/JEBUS WEPT!/KAKA IS JEBUS!

Sadly, this is true.
Some people are striving for perfection in a short period of time.

@Penguin, I'm going to guess that Huntsman said all this during the match with Galatasary?

Nonsense Coentrao, Ozil,Granero, Sahin and Khedira (one twos) have their ways to move the ball forward. The only guy with problems there is Alonso but he is very smart
The problem yesterday, Ozil didn't try really had, Di Maria is no midfielder and Coentrao's positioning in midfield was meh. 4-3-3 needs a lot of organization so you won't see immediate impact from game one. Therefore forwards need to involve themselves more. Even when our rookie Alex came on and played nervously, we had more control over midfield than before

I guess nobody really reads carefully. I'm not saying that our midfield is bad or has problems getting the ball forward... they're fine in the fundamentals. But they're not creative enough to handle pressure or to set the tone on their own in La Liga or against good teams in Europe. They need help from the forwards.

My only point here is that having three players, CR7-Benzema-Ozil, who can easily support the midfield and assist in the buildup is critical to our group as it stands. If we had just pure wingers or a pure #9, we would have a hard time imo.

When and if Sahin becomes a starter, we can more easily play with a true 9 or a true winger.

sportsczy wrote:I guess nobody really reads carefully. I'm not saying that our midfield is bad or has problems getting the ball forward... they're fine in the fundamentals. But they're not creative enough to handle pressure or to set the tone on their own in La Liga or against good teams in Europe. They need help from the forwards.

My only point here is that having three players, CR7-Benzema-Ozil, who can easily support the midfield and assist in the buildup is critical to our group as it stands. If we had just pure wingers or a pure #9, we would have a hard time imo.

When and if Sahin becomes a starter, we can more easily play with a true 9 or a true winger.

My point was they're creative enough to dominate any team in Europe bar Farca even without the help of forwards in the long run. You just have to throw Khedira in the mix ( enough chemistry). The others need time to adjust, CM isn't an easy position to build chemistry with immediate impact. The creative forward trio will help the 'transition' between less midfield dependance-> midfield domination

babun1024 wrote:

sportsczy wrote:I guess nobody really reads carefully. I'm not saying that our midfield is bad or has problems getting the ball forward... they're fine in the fundamentals. But they're not creative enough to handle pressure or to set the tone on their own in La Liga or against good teams in Europe. They need help from the forwards.

My only point here is that having three players, CR7-Benzema-Ozil, who can easily support the midfield and assist in the buildup is critical to our group as it stands. If we had just pure wingers or a pure #9, we would have a hard time imo.

When and if Sahin becomes a starter, we can more easily play with a true 9 or a true winger.

My point was they're creative enough to dominate any team in Europe bar Farca even without the help of forwards in the long run. You just have to throw Khedira in the mix ( enough chemistry). The others need time to adjust, CM isn't an easy position to build chemistry with immediate impact. The creative forward trio will help the 'transition' between less midfield dependance-> midfield domination

Hmmm... i don't know about that. I've seen enough times last year where our midfield struggled when pressed that i have my doubts. That was the main reason i thought getting Sahin was so important. Khedira needs to show me something against a good team for me to get more comfortable.

sportsczy wrote:

babun1024 wrote:

sportsczy wrote:I guess nobody really reads carefully. I'm not saying that our midfield is bad or has problems getting the ball forward... they're fine in the fundamentals. But they're not creative enough to handle pressure or to set the tone on their own in La Liga or against good teams in Europe. They need help from the forwards.

My only point here is that having three players, CR7-Benzema-Ozil, who can easily support the midfield and assist in the buildup is critical to our group as it stands. If we had just pure wingers or a pure #9, we would have a hard time imo.

When and if Sahin becomes a starter, we can more easily play with a true 9 or a true winger.

My point was they're creative enough to dominate any team in Europe bar Farca even without the help of forwards in the long run. You just have to throw Khedira in the mix ( enough chemistry). The others need time to adjust, CM isn't an easy position to build chemistry with immediate impact. The creative forward trio will help the 'transition' between less midfield dependance-> midfield domination

Hmmm... i don't know about that. I've seen enough times last year where our midfield struggled when pressed that i have my doubts. That was the main reason i thought getting Sahin was so important. Khedira needs to show me something against a good team for me to get more comfortable.

We played 4-2-3-1, easy to press that midfield of 2 people What I meant in essense:
Fact, we had only one guy in midfield who played for us a whole season yesterday=Alonso( He knows our forwards, how they make runs etc.) Ozil was on the right wing How do you expect that team with no chemistry in CM area to dominate?

babun1024 wrote:

sportsczy wrote:

babun1024 wrote:

sportsczy wrote:I guess nobody really reads carefully. I'm not saying that our midfield is bad or has problems getting the ball forward... they're fine in the fundamentals. But they're not creative enough to handle pressure or to set the tone on their own in La Liga or against good teams in Europe. They need help from the forwards.

My only point here is that having three players, CR7-Benzema-Ozil, who can easily support the midfield and assist in the buildup is critical to our group as it stands. If we had just pure wingers or a pure #9, we would have a hard time imo.

When and if Sahin becomes a starter, we can more easily play with a true 9 or a true winger.

My point was they're creative enough to dominate any team in Europe bar Farca even without the help of forwards in the long run. You just have to throw Khedira in the mix ( enough chemistry). The others need time to adjust, CM isn't an easy position to build chemistry with immediate impact. The creative forward trio will help the 'transition' between less midfield dependance-> midfield domination

Hmmm... i don't know about that. I've seen enough times last year where our midfield struggled when pressed that i have my doubts. That was the main reason i thought getting Sahin was so important. Khedira needs to show me something against a good team for me to get more comfortable.

We played 4-2-3-1, easy to press that midfield of 2 people What I meant in essense:
Fact, we had only one guy in midfield who played for us a whole season yesterday=Alonso( He knows our forwards, how they make runs etc.) Ozil was on the right wing How do you expect that team with no chemistry in CM area to dominate?

Basically replaced Di Maria with Coentrao... that's the only change from last year. Coentrao is more of a high work rate guy and defender; so he'll help recover a lot of balls. He doesn't really know how to play midfield yet. Without Di Maria, we've given up the entire right side of our offense basically. Very left-handed team right now.

I don't like Di Maria though so i welcome this change lol.

With Sahin, we should be a lot more balanced imo.

The interesting decision will come if Neymar joins. You're then looking at an attack of CR7-Benzema-Neymar and a midfield that will include Ozil (he really needs to learn to be a CM). If the midfield ends up being Ozil-Sahin-Khedira, it will be crazy creative.

He played 4-3-3 at Chelsea.