ToEy wrote:

izzy26 wrote:

ToEy wrote:“I have to admit that I was surprised and scared when I read these reports,” revealed Moratti.

“Mourinho and I always speak to each others so that is not true. He didn’t think Ibra would go but he is equally happy with Eto’o.”

Yeah moaningho chooses the targets and makes the transfers...thats why he did not think that Ibra would go even though Ibra was included in the exchange deal...kid u make me laugh

Incorrect.

Mourinho wanted Ibra to stay, but Ibra got it into his head that he could only win the CL by joining Barca so asked for the move as he felt Inter were holding him back. Mourinho and Moratti accepted he was leaving and were happy with Eto'o in exchange.

Silly Ibra.
Ask any Inter fan to confirm this.

Better yet, why not ask any Inter/Juve/Milan fans how their transfer works? Who identify/determines the deals? Why do you think Milan fans kept praising their director for the xfers not their managers?

You just used an example of the Ibra departure.
What has that got to do with the sporting director finding the players the manager has asked for?

izzy26 wrote:

ToEy wrote:

izzy26 wrote:

ToEy wrote:“I have to admit that I was surprised and scared when I read these reports,” revealed Moratti.

“Mourinho and I always speak to each others so that is not true. He didn’t think Ibra would go but he is equally happy with Eto’o.”

Yeah moaningho chooses the targets and makes the transfers...thats why he did not think that Ibra would go even though Ibra was included in the exchange deal...kid u make me laugh

Incorrect.

Mourinho wanted Ibra to stay, but Ibra got it into his head that he could only win the CL by joining Barca so asked for the move as he felt Inter were holding him back. Mourinho and Moratti accepted he was leaving and were happy with Eto'o in exchange.

Silly Ibra.
Ask any Inter fan to confirm this.

Better yet, why not ask any Inter/Juve/Milan fans how their transfer works? Who identify/determines the deals? Why do you think Milan fans kept praising their director for the xfers not their managers?

You just used an example of the Ibra departure.
What has that got to do with the sporting director finding the players the manager has asked for?

Jesus....read the posts...if you have no idea what we are debating about...

And the sporting director finding the players the manager has asked for? Dude why do you think Juve fans were calling for the sporting director's head..not the manager's for the melos and whatnot?

sportsczy wrote:Consistency kiranr. The guys you mention have moments of genius. Mou consistently shows genius.... That's the difference.

And as immentioned, mou has done it with 4 teams in 4 leagues with 4 completely different set of players... Without skipping a beat. SAF and Wenger have only been part of 1 team in 1 league.

SAF has consistently won the PL over the past 2 decades. Wenger has consistently achieved CL football inspite of a board that is not ambitious. Hiddink has consistently made a below par team punch above their weight. He even came in to Chelsea and almost took them to the CL final.

There are different forms of consistency. Mourinho only takes up projects where there a trophy is the sole goal and the board/owner is completely behind him and gives him any and all players he needs. Look at the depth he has at Madrid. I dont think any other top team has as much depth as Mourinho has at Madrid.

Mind you Sportsczy, he is an excellent manager, but i dont think he should be rated over and above some of the managers that i have mentioned.

ToEy wrote:

izzy26 wrote:
See how easy it is to jump to conclusions.

Yeah, he tried to punt the gel right of Cescs hair.

Dude...the video I posted was clearer, its more closed up. If you are telling me he did not kick cesc, I agree with you, but you do understand the word "try"?...but the intention = subjective, just like busquet's calling marcelo's intention was subjective

Ahhh, the mind reader.

So he tried to kick cesc huh?
Did he even look at cesc?

Or did he try to walk over to the Oncoming Barca bench and was pushed back while his right foot was in the walking motion.

izzy26 wrote:

ToEy wrote:

izzy26 wrote:
See how easy it is to jump to conclusions.

Yeah, he tried to punt the gel right of Cescs hair.

Dude...the video I posted was clearer, its more closed up. If you are telling me he did not kick cesc, I agree with you, but you do understand the word "try"?...but the intention = subjective, just like busquet's calling marcelo's intention was subjective

Ahhh, the mind reader.

So he tried to kick cesc huh?
Did he even look at cesc?

Or did he try to walk over to the Oncoming Barca bench and was pushed back while his right foot was in the walking motion.

Thats why i put a caveat there, I dont know his intentions 100%, but then again some of you guys do mind reading when its "busquet's mono saga".

Do you think he need to look at cesc to kick cesc if he wanted to kick cesc? Is cesc moving or something? So who is mind reading now?

Yeah his right foot was in the walking motion, thats why it somehow swing outwards...my god who is mind-reading now?

ToEy wrote:

sportsczy wrote:

ToEy wrote:

sportsczy wrote:

barca 2011 wrote:Well no one's picking on him here. He's the most overrated manager on this forum

And you're the crappiest poster... but we all put up with you junior. lol.

Its an irony that you called him the crappiest poster....your stupid logic of "we kicked harder because they tend to dive" to justify why your players kick is like a bouncer saying "I punched the dude that drank a lot because those people that drink a lot tend to create trouble"...but its ok we are also putting up with you

You actually need to have played organized football with a European team to understand what I'm saying. Very old tactic: people who dive get tackled hard as a result by defenders. You would actually get punished if you let them get away with it.

But I wouldn't expect Barca bandwagon fans to actually know the game.

1stly, how do you know I am a bandwagon fan? Do you know when I supported Barca? If not then shut your trap.

2ndly, your old tactic "Very old tactic: people who dive get tackled hard as a result by defenders"...question...Pique dives a lot? Messi dives a lot? How about Abidal..he dives a lot? So why are those players subjected to hard tackles/elbows? Now try to justify this

Bandwagon boy... You do know the difference between physical football and hard tackling, don't you? I swear that most Barca fans have no idea about the history of football. The Dutch invented a different version of this style of football in 70s and could never beat physical teams like Germany and Italy on a consistent basis. To make the system work, you give up physicality and replace it with technical players all over the pitch. The flaw then, of course, is that you become susceptible to physical play.

Stop whining and crying like babies just because Madrid is using the logical and time-proven tactic to beat your style of football.

sportsczy wrote:Stop whining and crying like babies just because Madrid is using the logical and time-proven tactic to beat your style of football.

You're doing a great job, I agree.

ToEy wrote:Jesus....read the posts...if you have no idea what we are debating about...

And the sporting director finding the players the manager has asked for? Dude why do you think Juve fans were calling for the sporting director's head..not the manager's for the melos and whatnot?

The manger gives the sporting director a list of potential players and positions that they require and the sporting director finds the best possible options. He then tries to negoiate with the target and offer the amount of money they deem fair.

Let's use Juve.
Conte gave Moratta a list of areas he felt needed strengthening and Moratta went out to find the players. They will come back with realistic targets that they feel are sutiable and will ask tell the manager that they are going for that particular player.

Again, ask Juve, Inter, Milan, Roma fans to confirm this. The sporting director only handles finding the transfer taargets, negotiating the price and having a link with the president.
Again, ask the fans of the club and they'll tell you the same thing.

Izzy is right..

Mourinho wanted Ibra to stay..But Ibra at that point in time during pre-season was praising Barca a lot and i've actually read many reports on Goal.com regarding that..

So it wouldnt have made sense to keep Ibra who had his heart set on Barca and also to consider the fact a great offer was presented by Barca..

And eto'o was Mourinho's target since his chelsea days mind you..So he was happy that he got a like for like replacement in eto'o..

It just happened to be that the President,The sporting director and the coach once for all were in consensus pertaining to this issue..

sportsczy wrote:

Bandwagon boy... You do know the difference between physical football and hard tackling, don't you? I swear that most Barca fans have no idea about the history of football. The Dutch invented a different version of this style of football in 70s and could never beat physical teams like Germany and Italy on a consistent basis. To make the system work, you give up physicality and replace it with technical players all over the pitch. The flaw then, of course, is that you become susceptible to physical play.

Stop whining and crying like babies just because Madrid is using the logical and time-proven tactic to beat your style of football.

I understand hard tackling. Elbows are all fine while fighting for the ball. I have seen many teams be excessively physical to counter passing and skillful play.

But are off the ball fouls justified? The CDR final had some off the ball fouls, stomps on players when the ball was not around. These are not justified sportsczy!

Surag.Blueguy wrote:Izzy is right..

Mourinho wanted Ibra to stay..But Ibra at that point in time during pre-season was praising Barca a lot and i've actually read many reports on Goal.com regarding that..

So it wouldnt have made sense to keep Ibra who had his heart set on Barca and also to consider the fact a great offer was presented by Barca..

And eto'o was Mourinho's target since his chelsea days mind you..So he was happy that he got a like for like replacement in eto'o..

It just happened to be that the President,The sporting director and the coach once for all were in consensus pertaining to this issue..

Thank you.

Some people are just so stubborn.

This is why Valdono was fired. Mourinho felt he was blocking him and not listen to what Mou wanted i.e. transfer targets. Now he is fired and Mou has more power than any Madrid manager has had.

sportsczy wrote:

ToEy wrote:

sportsczy wrote:

ToEy wrote:

sportsczy wrote:

barca 2011 wrote:Well no one's picking on him here. He's the most overrated manager on this forum

And you're the crappiest poster... but we all put up with you junior. lol.

Its an irony that you called him the crappiest poster....your stupid logic of "we kicked harder because they tend to dive" to justify why your players kick is like a bouncer saying "I punched the dude that drank a lot because those people that drink a lot tend to create trouble"...but its ok we are also putting up with you

You actually need to have played organized football with a European team to understand what I'm saying. Very old tactic: people who dive get tackled hard as a result by defenders. You would actually get punished if you let them get away with it.

But I wouldn't expect Barca bandwagon fans to actually know the game.

1stly, how do you know I am a bandwagon fan? Do you know when I supported Barca? If not then shut your trap.

2ndly, your old tactic "Very old tactic: people who dive get tackled hard as a result by defenders"...question...Pique dives a lot? Messi dives a lot? How about Abidal..he dives a lot? So why are those players subjected to hard tackles/elbows? Now try to justify this

Bandwagon boy... You do know the difference between physical football and hard tackling, don't you? I swear that most Barca fans have no idea about the history of football. The Dutch invented a different version of this style of football in 70s and could never beat physical teams like Germany and Italy on a consistent basis. To make the system work, you give up physicality and replace it with technical players all over the pitch. The flaw then, of course, is that you become susceptible to physical play.

Stop whining and crying like babies just because Madrid is using the logical and time-proven tactic to beat your style of football.

Hey childish kid, I know the difference between physical football and hard tackling. But unfortunately you have not answered my question despite all the block of words you gave, why are players that doesn't usually dive gets the same treatment as alves busquet's and co? Ramos on messi n the 5-0, hard tackling or physical football? How about khedira on Abidal or that little clothsline on Pique by some brutes on your team?

I swear you are the most condesending piece of big ego shit I talked to...madrid fans or not. You assume a whole lot of things, based purely on your opinion. If I am a bandwagon fan, I would have supported Barca ONLY after 2006, and after that you assume that 90% of Barca fans have no idea of football. Indeed you have an elitist mindset and survive by yourself in the ivory tower.

montecarlotwenty wrote:Shame Mourinho can't "motivate" youth player like Leon, Canales, Garay, Balotelli, Santon. Instead publicly destroys their confidence and throws them on the scrap heap before they're given a chance.

Last season Mou was the coach in Europe who used the most youth system player out of any top club...

izzy26 wrote:

Surag.Blueguy wrote:Izzy is right..

Mourinho wanted Ibra to stay..But Ibra at that point in time during pre-season was praising Barca a lot and i've actually read many reports on Goal.com regarding that..

So it wouldnt have made sense to keep Ibra who had his heart set on Barca and also to consider the fact a great offer was presented by Barca..

And eto'o was Mourinho's target since his chelsea days mind you..So he was happy that he got a like for like replacement in eto'o..

It just happened to be that the President,The sporting director and the coach once for all were in consensus pertaining to this issue..

Thank you.

Some people are just so stubborn.

This is why Valdono was fired. Mourinho felt he was blocking him and not listen to what Mou wanted i.e. transfer targets. Now he is fired and Mou has more power than any Madrid manager has had.

Well if that was the truth, and can be confirmed by some SerieA fans, then I was indeed wrong. However, now I have 2 juve fans with 2 different side of the story about transfers in Italy, anyone else can confirm?

Izzy...stubborn? I may have my own opinions, but if people can tell me that im wrong and can provide facts, I am willing to accept it...shame it cant be said for some your fans

ToEy wrote:

izzy26 wrote:

Surag.Blueguy wrote:Izzy is right..

Mourinho wanted Ibra to stay..But Ibra at that point in time during pre-season was praising Barca a lot and i've actually read many reports on Goal.com regarding that..

So it wouldnt have made sense to keep Ibra who had his heart set on Barca and also to consider the fact a great offer was presented by Barca..

And eto'o was Mourinho's target since his chelsea days mind you..So he was happy that he got a like for like replacement in eto'o..

It just happened to be that the President,The sporting director and the coach once for all were in consensus pertaining to this issue..

Thank you.

Some people are just so stubborn.

This is why Valdono was fired. Mourinho felt he was blocking him and not listen to what Mou wanted i.e. transfer targets. Now he is fired and Mou has more power than any Madrid manager has had.

Well if that was the truth, and can be confirmed by some SerieA fans, then I was indeed wrong. However, now I have 2 juve fans with 2 different side of the story about transfers in Italy, anyone else can confirm?

Izzy...stubborn? I may have my own opinions, but if people can tell me that im wrong and can provide facts, I am willing to accept it...shame it cant be said for some your fans

I have fans?




LOL. But seriously, who are you talking about and which thread?

Hard physical play is not a player-targeted tactic persay. It's an overall game tactic Kiranr. Just like diving is designed to take aggressiveness away from defenders and push for undeserved carding, hard physical play is designed to take away the rhythm of tiki taka and punish teams for diving. When i played in L1 youth football, the Italian teams dove all the time... and we crunched them defensively and i mean hard. It was by design and mandated by our coaches. It works too.

Barca's tactics and Madrid's tactics are both deliberate and tactical. They both push the envelop on legality. But one thing Barca needs to understand is that Mou is using the proper tactics finally... and there's nothing wrong with that.

I say all this with the caveat that Marcelo's kick on Messi and tackle on Cesc were outrageous. Those are not what i am talking about. Marcelo just lost control.

izzy26 wrote:

ToEy wrote:

izzy26 wrote:

Surag.Blueguy wrote:Izzy is right..

Mourinho wanted Ibra to stay..But Ibra at that point in time during pre-season was praising Barca a lot and i've actually read many reports on Goal.com regarding that..

So it wouldnt have made sense to keep Ibra who had his heart set on Barca and also to consider the fact a great offer was presented by Barca..

And eto'o was Mourinho's target since his chelsea days mind you..So he was happy that he got a like for like replacement in eto'o..

It just happened to be that the President,The sporting director and the coach once for all were in consensus pertaining to this issue..

Thank you.

Some people are just so stubborn.

This is why Valdono was fired. Mourinho felt he was blocking him and not listen to what Mou wanted i.e. transfer targets. Now he is fired and Mou has more power than any Madrid manager has had.

Well if that was the truth, and can be confirmed by some SerieA fans, then I was indeed wrong. However, now I have 2 juve fans with 2 different side of the story about transfers in Italy, anyone else can confirm?

Izzy...stubborn? I may have my own opinions, but if people can tell me that im wrong and can provide facts, I am willing to accept it...shame it cant be said for some your fans

I have fans?




LOL. But seriously, who are you talking about and which thread?

Fello fans I mean...and dude there are so many around wtf...How about that dude that said even if Mourinho wanna murder some Barca dude, he would understand, JUST for example

sportsczy wrote:Hard physical play is not a player-targeted tactic persay. It's an overall game tactic Kiranr. Just like diving is designed to take aggressiveness away from defenders and push for undeserved carding, hard physical play is designed to take away the rhythm of tiki taka and punish teams for diving. When i played in L1 youth football, the Italian teams dove all the time... and we crunched them defensively and i mean hard. It was by design and mandated by our coaches. It works too.

Barca's tactics and Madrid's tactics are both deliberate and tactical. They both push the envelop on legality. But one thing Barca needs to understand is that Mou is using the proper tactics finally... and there's nothing wrong with that.

I say all this with the caveat that Marcelo's kick on Messi and tackle on Cesc were outrageous. Those are not what i am talking about. Marcelo just lost control.

How does it work? Don't you think coming down hard on these players will only provide more fodder to go down easy?

ToEy wrote:Fello fans I mean...and dude there are so many around wtf...How about that dude that said even if Mourinho wanna murder some Barca dude, he would understand, JUST for example

Who the hell said that?

Don't take that too seriously, but whoever said that is f**ked out his mind.

kiranr wrote:

sportsczy wrote:Hard physical play is not a player-targeted tactic persay. It's an overall game tactic Kiranr. Just like diving is designed to take aggressiveness away from defenders and push for undeserved carding, hard physical play is designed to take away the rhythm of tiki taka and punish teams for diving. When i played in L1 youth football, the Italian teams dove all the time... and we crunched them defensively and i mean hard. It was by design and mandated by our coaches. It works too.

Barca's tactics and Madrid's tactics are both deliberate and tactical. They both push the envelop on legality. But one thing Barca needs to understand is that Mou is using the proper tactics finally... and there's nothing wrong with that.

I say all this with the caveat that Marcelo's kick on Messi and tackle on Cesc were outrageous. Those are not what i am talking about. Marcelo just lost control.

How does it work? Don't you think coming down hard on these players will only provide more fodder to go down easy?

It has several points:
1- To create a physical basis for the refs to call games. If the game is tough, the refs can't call everything and will call only the plays that are tougher than others. So a lot of the diving infractions just won't get called. You set the tone of the game basically.
2- The opponent will stop looking for diving opportunities as much if they know that there is a good likelihood that a hard play is coming. Self preservation kicks in. They actually worry more about getting out the way then trying to play act.
3- Compound psychological affect of physical play... after a while, players get tired of being pushed and beaten. They either look to avoid the contact or try to retaliate. Either way, you're taking the players out of their usual comfort zone.

Because Barca pushes the edges of legality with their tactics, Madrid does the same. Before Mou, we were trying to take the high road and refused to employ the proper measures... it frustrated the hell out of me. Not true anymore.

emassy wrote:Mourinho is still the man to watch out for.like it or not.

That's very difficult if he pokes your eyes out.

ToEy wrote:owever, now I have 2 juve fans with 2 different side of the story about transfers in Italy, anyone else can confirm?

Why are you generalizing ?I was just talking about that particular deal..

wigglesworth wrote:

emassy wrote:Mourinho is still the man to watch out for.like it or not.

That's very difficult if he pokes your eyes out.

Maybe he's just a three stooges fan.

Surag.Blueguy wrote:

ToEy wrote:owever, now I have 2 juve fans with 2 different side of the story about transfers in Italy, anyone else can confirm?

Why are you generalizing ?I was just talking about that particular deal..

What about other deals? Like the Lucio, milito, sneijder ones for Inter? Who chooses the player? Mourinho or Moratti?

ToEy wrote:

Surag.Blueguy wrote:

ToEy wrote:owever, now I have 2 juve fans with 2 different side of the story about transfers in Italy, anyone else can confirm?

Why are you generalizing ?I was just talking about that particular deal..

What about other deals? Like the Lucio, milito, sneijder ones for Inter? Who chooses the player? Mourinho or Moratti?

See a coach presents a list of transfer targets to the sporting director..And its the job of the director to negotiate the transfer fee and agree personal terms etc..

One thing i can tell you sure is Moratti had 100 % faith in what Mourinho was doing..This just gives an indication that he was not fully involved in transfers..The eto'o-Ibra financially happened to be such a great deal and it would have been hard to pass off such a deal..

Like i said Mou,Branca and Moratti were in consensus with most of the transfers..

And let me tell you one more thing from juve's side..By now Bastos and Andreas Beck would have been Juve players..Guess who blocked it ?The coach Antonio Conte..

sportsczy wrote:

It has several points:
1- To create a physical basis for the refs to call games. If the game is tough, the refs can't call everything and will call only the plays that are tougher than others. So a lot of the diving infractions just won't get called. You set the tone of the game basically.
2- The opponent will stop looking for diving opportunities as much if they know that there is a good likelihood that a hard play is coming. Self preservation kicks in. They actually worry more about getting out the way then trying to play act.
3- Compound psychological affect of physical play... after a while, players get tired of being pushed and beaten. They either look to avoid the contact or try to retaliate. Either way, you're taking the players out of their usual comfort zone.

Because Barca pushes the edges of legality with their tactics, Madrid does the same. Before Mou, we were trying to take the high road and refused to employ the proper measures... it frustrated the hell out of me. Not true anymore.

Your first point makes a lot of sense and i have seen it happening as well.

The second point is not working as you have explained. We still saw Mascherano go down easy. No one looked out for self-preservation, as they all went for 50-50 balls. We saw, Cesc, Pique, Messi, Pedro etc, milk their fouls and indulge in some theatrics.

Infact in the second leg, i was surprised to see some hard tackling by Barcelona's players.

I completely understand the hard tackling taking players out of comfort zone and breaking up the tiki-taka. But it does not instill fear in the players at the highest level!