Arquitecto wrote:Pragmatism in football to me, is just caution and lack of imagination. I get the old adage of as long as we win for I respect that but it's done at the cost of so many other factors.

For me defensive football and the reactivity that comes with it is a very minor form of cowardice akin to waiting at a date for the person to say something so you can latch onto the conversation, rather than creating one of your own. Awkward analogy, I know.

But with France's talent, Deschamps style just isn't justified for France have failed to evolve since the WC final in which they should have blasted back with revenge.

His style is barely tailored to anyone bar Kante and players of his ilk and its just dire to watch.

But I disagree football has changed in that sense just for the result. Serie A barely has defensive teams and we are still fresh off proactive possession football. France just need a change.

In my opinion the problem is a bit deeper than Deschamps. France simply doesn't produce the type of player that is conducive to expansive and fluid football. The focus in youth development is on physicality, wining duels, tackling, acceleration etc...technique and vision are seen as a bonus, not a requirement.  There is a reason France has a surplus in center backs and defensive / box to box midfielders..it's because these are the positions that leverage these qualities the most.

The contrast in philosophy between Spain and France can be seen in the areas where both teams are lacking. Defenders who aren't good enough to be considered by France at any NT level can easily start for Spain (Laporte + Le Normand) while even the midfielder sitting at the edge of Spain's bench is still more technical than France's starters.

farfan wrote:

Arquitecto wrote:Pragmatism in football to me, is just caution and lack of imagination. I get the old adage of as long as we win for I respect that but it's done at the cost of so many other factors.

For me defensive football and the reactivity that comes with it is a very minor form of cowardice akin to waiting at a date for the person to say something so you can latch onto the conversation, rather than creating one of your own. Awkward analogy, I know.

But with France's talent, Deschamps style just isn't justified for France have failed to evolve since the WC final in which they should have blasted back with revenge.

His style is barely tailored to anyone bar Kante and players of his ilk and its just dire to watch.

But I disagree football has changed in that sense just for the result. Serie A barely has defensive teams and we are still fresh off proactive possession football. France just need a change.

In my opinion the problem is a bit deeper than Deschamps. France simply doesn't produce the type of player that is conducive to expansive and fluid football. The focus in youth development is on physicality, wining duels, tackling, acceleration etc...technique and vision are seen as a bonus, not a requirement.  There is a reason France has a surplus in center backs and defensive / box to box midfielders..it's because these are the positions that leverage these qualities the most.

The contrast in philosophy between Spain and France can be seen in the areas where both teams are lacking. Defenders who aren't good enough to be considered by France at any NT level can easily start for Spain (Laporte + Le Normand) while even the midfielder sitting at the edge of Spain's bench is still more technical than France's starters.

I agree completely. Mbappe aside, their forwards suck. For a few years they also had Greizmann, but he wasn’t effective this time at all. Not that our forwards have been any better the past several years, but they are taught and have good techniques / skill. The problem has been finishing. With the midfielders, we excel whereas the French have better physical skills but not the techniques the Spanish are taught. Same thing can be said about the laterals, but I acknowledge that there is little difference in the laterals of both teams in this World Cup.

The other difference is the tactics. Ours has evolved from the possession orientated ticky tacky to more direct. Enrique tried it, but he was lacking finishing and the wingers didn’t or couldn’t use the width. Nico and Yamal have solved that. But de La Fuente has taken the direct attack to a whole different level. If you have noticed. They seldom pass back and there is excellent movement, particularly by the midfielders and the laterals to create space and that allows the forward pass / movement. Also key to this is Rodri and his skill level.

I actually found Sports’ wild predictions comical especially when he said the talent was better all over the field. He’s biased, so am I, but he totally misread the tactics and how our talent makes it work. We have to give credit to de la Fuente in this tactics improvement. Being a national youth coach for years, he knows these players well and that knowledge allowed for the changes and the players easily accepting it. Another difference is the team chemistry, partly from de la Fuente but also from Morata. Carvajal was taking about this just today. compare all that to Deschamps and you can see a clear difference. In today’s turbo, you have to evolve. What worked before, won’t necessarily work tomorrow.

Now mind you, I may have to eat some of my words after Sunday’s final! But I don’t think so.

I don’t know why auto correct keeps changing my “futbol” to Turbo!

That is a very informative and comprehensive post by farfan I didn't know that deep into it thanks.

Ligue 1 does seem to have the reputation of a defensive and not too imaginative physical league and Im surprised it's that given the absurd amount of talent in the country.

It's most definitely deeper than Deschamps indeed.