What's happened to Argentina?  I used to like them.  Now they've become racist wannabe gangsters who are looking to fight everyone...  and have about as much class as a 10-cent prostitute.  

Argentinians in Miami are very arrogant too... but well mannered.  Know plenty of lovely Argentinians. What is it with the football players though?

Argentine footballers are mostly peasants, sports for I dont know what you expected. Most of them aren't exactly savants beyond their knowledge of how to use a football, as is the case for most footballers.

Pedram wrote:

Arquitecto wrote:

Myesyats wrote:I mean whatever you believe. I dont think dismissing everything just because its from a right-leaning account or a right-leaning source is unhealthy. This tribalism is insane to me. Fact-checking is important but the way you ignore everything that comes from one side just because you identify with the other is crazy.

This predicament we have here is quite rare, but on another note I personally dont see how you can be a feminist and also in favor of trans-women in cis-women sports. To me, these two cancel each other out.

Forgive me if i'm simply too dismissive toward these people who are well-known frauds Arq. in recent years i have became so cynical toward their intentions because it's obvious at this point what they are trying to push on poor unsuspecting people who are not fully aware of the level of manipulation that is currently going in online spaces.

You just know any time someone like Musk opens his mouth they are not actually personally concerned about said subject, they are just pushing their own agenda, why else do you think he bought Twitter.

Thats a smart approach to it and I dont disagree with any of your points here in particular anyway.

farfan wrote:

Arquitecto wrote:I actually agree there because the trans-obsessed culture warriors you speak about, similar to the anti-abortion brigade all of which lean to the right are essentially, bad faith artists so its hard to take their views seriously given they dont actually believe in them.


Im more interested to hear further on your views on this honestly, if you would

It's a complex topic, but I believe there should be a cutoff. An adult male athlete shouldn't just transition and be allowed to compete in women's sports. The grey area lies in earlier transitions, where questions about supposed physical advantages become less clear. This isn't one of those cases, the boxer in question never had male organs and has been a women her whole life.

I never saw it that way and Im happy to see you mention the grey areas to which for the most part are never done in mainstream binary online debating. Thanks for your answer btw

Biological males shouldn't be allowed to compete in biological female sporting events.  Period.

It's about fairness and nothing else.  It's a massive biological advantage that is impossible to ignore.

And btw, I personally believe that a trans person should be in a mental institution (because it is a mental illness imo) and by no means become socially accepted.  So I'm not exactly unbiased here.  Being gay is one thing and that's fine.  But trans?  That's just straight nonsense in a current world full of nonsense.

Imane Khelif is not a trans ffs.  I did some research.  She is an intersex person.  What does that mean?  She is born with natural variations in sex characteristics that differ from what is typically considered female. These variations can include differences in chromosomes, genitals, reproductive organs, hormone production, and secondary sex traits.  Imane has a lot more testosterone.  

Why does the news not say this?!  It's dishonest!

As such, I now support her and I should have known better than just reading the news.  She was born a woman who is intersex. She didn't do anything to herself.

Screw all these people who are attacking her without information and screw the media for not explaining things properly.

There are trans people that are competing in women's sports though... like that swimmer in the US.  Born a man 100% and now identifies as a woman so decides he can participate in women's sports.  That's BS.  There are clear biological advantages to being born a man and it's completely unfair to biological women.  A lot of other insane examples in the US of this bs.

But again, this is not the case with Imane.

HOWEVER, even with an intersex person, there has to be a threshold where an intersex person can't participate in women's sports because, again, there are too many biological advantages.  Not sure if that's the case here.

Whatever it is, Imane is not at fault but the governing sports bodies are.  They need to make the guidelines universally clear and follow them.

The big controversy is that the International Boxing Federation ruled that Imane cannot participate in official women's competitions because of her biological advantages while the IOC said she could compete in the Olympics.

There are plenty of biological advantages ppl have, most top athletes have it. Is it unfair Phelps body and lungs are superbly abnormal to the human body compared to others? Usain Bolts freakishly long legs where he takes less steps compared to everybody? Simone biles literally being a dwarf helping her get an extra flip in that's humanly impossible for others?

Those are termed as anomalies.

Just like anomalies where some women are stronger than most men. Otherwise the physical disparity is not even close

Testosterone is considered a PED. How is that even comparable to having longer legs

Arquitecto wrote:Those are termed as anomalies.

Just like anomalies where some women are stronger than most men. Otherwise the physical disparity is not even close

it's also an anomaly that a women would have excess testosterone also what would even be the limit for too much? This conversation is above are education at this point. I agree that there should be a discussion about this in sports but there would have to be a good faith argument about it. People who are extremely angry about this don't care about women sports, they just don't like transgenders lol. None of these ppl watch women's boxing lol

I don’t dislike trans people.  But I believe they have a mental illness that needs to be addressed.  Very different from being gay.  

Re Phelps and others.  If you have the same biological baseline and happen to have anomalies which help you, that’s one thing.  But to be a biological man and compete in women’s sports is absurd just because “ you identify as a woman”.  Absolutely unfair.  

Any men’s tennis player in the top 250 would destroy Serena Williams at her peak.  Imagine one of those guys suddenly identifying as a woman.  

Same with basketball (which is starting to happen). Imagine any NBA player identifying as a woman.

Imagine any top tier footballer identifying as a woman lol.

It's insanity of the highest degree.

Very few people "suddenly" identify as trans, Sports.

This is often something that manifests very very early in their lives, but due to societal pressure, they are forced to suppress it until adulthood and even then they may have to keep hiding it for fear of their livelihoods, freedom or even their very lives.

Your analogy is loaded with disinformation and bad faith assumptions.

McLewis wrote:Very few people "suddenly" identify as trans, Sports.

This is often something that manifests very very early in their lives, but due to societal pressure, they are forced to suppress it until adulthood and even then they may have to keep hiding it for fear of their livelihoods, freedom or even their very lives.

Your analogy is loaded with disinformation and bad faith assumptions.

They shouldn't fear for their lives or get ostracized... but they shouldn't compete is sports meant for biological women.

Both things can be true.  

The science on gender dysphoria is pretty clear:
https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/sex-matters-why-transgender-athletes-must-not-compete-against-biological-females/

"The estimated prevalence of gender dysphoria among those assigned female sex at birth rose sharply at the age of 11, peaked between the ages of 17 and 19, and then fell below that of those assigned male sex at birth, by the age of 22.  This compares with the estimated prevalence of gender dysphoria among those assigned male sex at birth which started to increase at the age of 13, peaked at the age of 23, and then gradually decreased."

What does it mean?  It's often a phenomenon caused by puberty which then dissipates with age.  It's a hormonal issue.  It's very different from sexual orientation.  Encouraging kids to take permanent steps at a young age while suffering from a hormonal imbalance is.... criminal.  Scientifically speaking, it should be discouraged until the age range of 25 to allow for the person to mature first and see where the person settles. After that, it's a mature decision.

The article you posted, an editorial by a former Olympian who is very clearly not a scientist, doesn't contain the study that you quoted from. That's ultimately irrelevant though because studies on gender dysphoria have not come to a consensus on what kind of advantage and how much of an advantage it gives trans women in women's sport. The "science" is inconclusive.

McLewis wrote:The article you posted, an editorial by a former Olympian who is very clearly not a scientist, doesn't contain the study that you quoted from. That's ultimately irrelevant though because studies on gender dysphoria have not come to a consensus on what kind of advantage and how much of an advantage it gives trans women in women's sport. The "science" is inconclusive.

Wrong link.  Here's the scientific journal article:  https://www.news-medical.net/news/20230627/Age-of-gender-dysphoria-diagnosis-continues-to-decline.aspx

Key quote again:  "The estimated prevalence of gender dysphoria among those assigned female sex at birth rose sharply at the age of 11, peaked between the ages of 17 and 19, and then fell below that of those assigned male sex at birth, by the age of 22.  This compares with the estimated prevalence of gender dysphoria among those assigned male sex at birth which started to increase at the age of 13, peaked at the age of 23, and then gradually decreased."

It's written by Megan Craig.  She graduated from The University of Manchester with a B.Sc. in Genetics, and also has a M.Sc. in Science and Health Communication.  Not only is she a woman she's obviously qualified to discuss the topic as a scientist.

Also, are you seriously saying that one cannot tell that there is an athletic advantage to being biologically male as compared to biologically female?  Really??

Just wow man.  I know you've fallen off the deep end and assimilated into the progressive Borg... but common sense has to kick in at some point.

Walz champions gender replacement for kids and signed then order next to a 12 year old but he isn't far-left

As for physical advantage, hormone replacement therapy can theoretically eliminate most of the advantage but science isn't conclusive on that either

Olise is great

France nearly bottled this by playing Lacazette for most of the game

Spain is on a roll

They've struck gold again

Not watched at all... so Spain wins it with Fermin Lopez a leading player? Anything to get excited about or the level not that good?

Pedram wrote:We might as well merge this thread with politics, nobody talking about the Olympic itself.

You're correct. I've posted a response to @Sportsczy in the Political Correctness thread. All other responses related to the gender issue discussed here should be posted in that thread.

Congrats Imane Khelif on winning Olympic Gold.