Re: The US Politics Thread

[sportsczy]

Looking at the numbers in 2016, 2020, and 2024, something sticks out pretty badly, doesn't it.

I didn't follow 2020 closely and didn't believe the allegations much, just thought Trump was a sore loser, but logics imply otherwise now.

I am not saying it with certainty, but it is entirely possible.

Election fraud is nothing new in US politics.  JFK won when the mafia stuffed ballot boxes as a favor to his father.  He was basically tied with Nixon and got the little extra push he needed as a result.
Read here:  https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1997-nov-09-mn-51973-story.html

Back then, we lived in a far more civilized time where political opponents were actually in agreement with 80% of policy... only 20% differed between democrats and republicans.  So Nixon and the GOP decided that it would be detrimental to the US for them to protest.  Of course, Nixon took it (falsely) as a carte blanche to do shady things himself.  Watergate was actually no worse than what JFK did... but I digress.

Anyhow, in 2020, you had an enormous amount of mail-in ballots because of the pandemic.  Also, the oversight of ballot counting was minimal again due to COVID-19 restrictions.  Given how close the race was (Biden literally won by getting Georgia with 11k more votes), it was easily conceivable, if not likely, that errors and corruption influenced the result.  If the winning margin was in the 6 digits or mid to high 5 digits in Georgia and other states, then it would be a ridiculous thought.

So I get why Trump was so enraged.  But it's extremely difficult to prove when you don't have... well proof since oversight wasn't at the same level.  Jan 6 was not an insurrection, but a riot.  He should have been charged with inciting a riot.  But politically, insurrection sounds more damning.  The definition of an insurrection is pretty clear in paragraph 3 of the 14th Amendment in the US Constitution.

My 2 cents.

[Pedram]

Throw the centrist Democrats into the bin already.

[Myesyats]

Well a lot of conspiracies tend to be proven true as years go by so I guess it’s not totally out of the realm of possibility even if people scoff at the idea now.

But then again, why would one assume that only one side cheated and the other not at all

Across multiple states too. They’d have to have done it in several swing states not just Georgia.

[Vibe]

From 2011 #WHCD: President Obama's jokes about Donald Trump.

Full video here: https://t.co/CQtPrKB2OJ pic.twitter.com/07wlgSi4QN

— CSPAN (@cspan) April 26, 2020

I remember this, I thought it was very funny, he took a nice dump on top of Trumps head right then and there in front of everyone. I watched it and thought you tell him Obama.

In retrospect... You could tell Trump was cooking inside and at that moment decided to fuck Obama's shit up.

And fuck up Obama's shit he did He was a laughing stock being roasted by the great Obama, today he is a two term president who just dismantled Obama's entire political establishment.

[Casciavit]

Oh and polls were, once again, absolutely useless.  I will never look at one again because it's a waste of time.  Has any American citizen here every been called by one of these pollsters?  I never have and I don't know anyone who has either.  Who are they polling lol.

This was the case in 2016. I don't know why people still trusted polls after that. There is a sizeable portion of shadow Trump supporters if you want to call them that. They won't publicly admit they're voting for him but when it comes to putting in their ballot they do.

If the polls had them close - there was clearly that extra margin Trump had which was again not accounted for the way it should've been.

Anyways I made some good money betting on Trump to become president. He had the following going for him:

- Cult of personality (assassination attempt and court cases)

- More charismatic/likeable than Kamala + owning the libs factor

- He's always going to get his county/redneck (anti-immigration)/high income (lower taxes) votes.

- Although inflation wasn't completely Biden's fault and it was a post-covid effect, the average voter conflates it as being Biden's fault. This had a big impact especially on low income demo.

- It seems like abortion mandates didn't have the effect it was supposed to. Did voters realize Kamala wouldn't have been able to do anything about it? I mean the majority of the supreme court is already republican. The senate and the house are majority republican. Is it to prevent packing the entire supreme court with republicans?

- Young gen z males have become progressively more right wing in the last 3 years. No surprise about Trump's podcast strategy (Rogan, Ross, PBD etc). Good call from his son on encouraging him to do those podcasts.

- Kamala had too much of the Biden stink about her. She was in a tough position because she can't shit on him because she was his VP, but at the same time you can't really advocate you'll do things differently and have people believe you. If you had an influence before why was nothing done?

- Her ducking the podcasts Trump did + choosing to get endorsements from bottom tier trash like Cardi B was also a bad strategic choice. Obama said the black male population wasn't as excited by Kamala as they were with him. Ask yourself why? Well the easy argument is "because she's a woman", but I can't help but feel the democrats' continued entitlement regarding their vote is what contributes too. You claim you care about them, but they don't see any actual change. When you want to get their vote you bring out Megan the Stallion to shake her ass on stage instead of talking about what can actually be done to help better their lives. Don't get me wrong Republicans won't do better for them, but at least they're upfront about who they are lmfao.

- She was a rushed forced candidate. I don't remember her being popular at all before she was endorsed to be president. Seeing celebrities suddenly start to endorse her also added an inauthentic element to her campaign.

- Seems like Kamala lost the arab/muslim vote. Again not surprised. I think muslims know both won't do anything for Palestine, but at least Trump is viewed as being more anti-war compared to Kamala. Now issue with Trump is he might stop the war but let Israel get whatever portion of extra land they desire in the process. With the democrats you know it will be a continual bloodshed. Interesting gamble.

- Elon Musk is the biggest winner in all of this. The world clowned him for overpaying for twitter. He ended up creating a social media platform that enabled right-wing speech under the disguise of free speech. Other big media platforms were censoring a lot of right wing speech in 2020. Now Musk has his government position, and I'm sure he'll get some nice government pay-cheques to help fund his projects. Thankfully I bought Tesla stocks a few weeks ago.

At the end of the day she was running on "We can't let this guy be president again he's Hitler reincarnated" when Trump was already in power before and people didn't really get that vibe from him. It also isn't COVID era anymore where you wanted someone more stable. Americans love the bravado and Trump brings that in spades compared to Kamala's disingenuous word salads.

Again I and others saw this coming, but I'm surprised at the shock of others. Then I went on Reddit and sorted the top news articles in the last month and they were all pro Kamala threads. Topics were about how she was a strong favorite and how Trump was losing his lead. Comment sections were filled with "There's no way anyone can vote for this guy." I guess with the upvote system it's the perfect representation of a liberal echo chamber. Another contributing factor is that when it comes to other social media platforms and the rise of the FYP page - you end up seeing what the algorithm thinks you want to see. Confirmation bias at work.

[Casciavit]

Also this is another issue with the liberal MSM:



No one gives a shit. You've made him an underdog after a continual smear campaign for the last 8 years. I saw more comments claiming this was 'based' and 'badass' than anything else.

[Vibe]

My holdings also increased by like 15-20% since the moment Trump started gaining momentum last night.

Thanks Donald. Already improving economy all around

I think Kamala did have a path to the presidency though. The switch was brilliant. Changed the narrative from lost cause to practically being favorite at one point. Unfortunately Kamala herself was her own undoing because within a month it was obvious she was incompetent. Imagine it was Tulsi Gabbard instead. She would have won.

So the dems have only themselves to blame, just like with Hillary in 2016.

[Pedram]

Reddit is the most botted social media out there. DNC shills actively uses r/politics and other main default subs to push their pro-establishment messages which are absolutely not popular in real life.

[Casciavit]

My holdings also increased by like 15-20% since the moment Trump started gaining momentum last night.

Thanks Donald. Already improving economy all around

I think Kamala did have a path to the presidency though. The switch was brilliant. Changed the narrative from lost cause to practically being favorite at one point. Unfortunately Kamala herself was her own undoing because within a month it was obvious she was incompetent. Imagine it was Tulsi Gabbard instead. She would have won.

So the dems have only themselves to blame, just like with Hillary in 2016.

Yup there was a time period where she did gather momentum - I think especially after her debate with Trump. All things considered she did okay considering she was not popular before, and her campaign was done in a couple of months. I just think over time the cracks started to show and she was never going to win the majority of people over - and that's why she lost the popular vote.

[Casciavit]

Reddit is the most botted social media out there. DNC shills actively uses r/politics and other main default subs to push their pro-establishment messages which are absolutely not popular in real life.

100%.

The live threads last night and the surprise they had lmfao.

[BarrileteCosmico]

@Pedram already blaming the centrists when Kamala was perceived as farther left than Trump was to the right.

As a proud centrist my take is that the Dems lost because they were too far left in relation to the electorate.

I thought Kamala ran a better campaign than expected, but she should have disowned Biden and instead she said "I wouldn't do anything different from him". So here we are

Dems forgot that they ran and old white man in 2020 because you need one to beat Trump. Running a mixed race woman daughter of college professors Californian who was appointed was always going to be a race stacked against you, unfortunately.

At least in 2028 we'll have a clean slate. We'll see how much damage Trump does until then.

[Vibe]

One fact also shocked me about Kamala.

She is 60, I had no idea until today. Would have gave her 50 tops. Fabulous looking woman, prettiest 60 year old I've ever seen tbh.

She's the same age as Walz. Would have though he was 15-20 years older.

[Pedram]

The hosts of MSNBC’s Morning Joe (with Mika Brzezinski dressed in black for the occasion) engage in a ‘real honest conversation’ about why Kamala Harris lost: “A lot of Hispanic voters have problems with black candidates … They don’t like each other.” pic.twitter.com/QQG5UGqL5t

— Drop Site (@DropSiteNews) November 6, 2024

But but... i though Republicans were the party of racism?

These MSNBC morons have been embarrassing themselves non stop today. been watching their post election coverage not because i enjoy it, in fact they make me cringe, but as they say, it's like a slow car crash, you can't look away.

[Vibe]

Blaming the latinos never goes out of fashion tbh

[Pedram]

@Pedram already blaming the centrists when Kamala was perceived as farther left than Trump was to the right.

As a proud centrist my take is that the Dems lost because they were too far left in relation to the electorate.

I thought Kamala ran a better campaign than expected, but she should have disowned Biden and instead she said "I wouldn't do anything different from him". So here we are

Dems forgot that they ran and old white man in 2020 because you need one to beat Trump. Running a mixed race woman daughter of college professors Californian who was appointed was always going to be a race stacked against you, unfortunately.

At least in 2028 we'll have a clean slate. We'll see how much damage Trump does until then.

Bro the fuck are you on about. Kamala was literally campaigning with Dick fucking Cheney. they actively shunned the left. they were courting Nikki Haley type of voters. she ran the most centrist campaign she could to get those mythical moderate Republicans and they still voted for Trump by 95% margins.  

This triangulation strategy might have worked in the 90s with Clinton but not in this age were politics is extremely polarized. complete failure but Democrats will never learn their lesson. they would rather lose power than give an inch to the left. they are still paying the price for blunting the Bernie movement in 2016.

[Pedram]

It should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working class people would find that the working class has abandoned them.

While the Democratic leadership defends the status quo, the American people are angry and want change.

And they’re right. pic.twitter.com/lM2gSJmQFL

— Bernie Sanders (@BernieSanders) November 6, 2024

Americans didn't deserve this man.

[BarrileteCosmico]

I don't have the source on hand (I think it was Pew Research), but Trump was considered "too far right" for 30ish% of the population while Kamala was "too far left" for 40ish%. The reason she took the never Trump Republicans around with her is that she needed to moderate her image.

[Pedram]

I don't have the source on hand (I think it was Pew Research), but Trump was considered "too far right" for 30ish% of the population while Kamala was "too far left" for 40ish%. The reason she took the never Trump Republicans around with her is that she needed to moderate her image.

The story that is about to be pushed hard is that Kamala Harris lost because she was too far left. It will be pushed because this is the Democratic establishment’s go-to explanation for all its failures. https://t.co/vDKgRyaml4

— Jacobin (@jacobin) November 6, 2024

No doubt the center will try to push this false narrative that Kamala was "far-left" but i'm not sure many people will buy it this time.

If Democrats are smart they will use this failure to activate the base and create their own version of the Tea Party.

[sportsczy]

I think people are focusing on idealogues as opposed to what actually won/lost the election.  Each side has 40% idealogues... you don't need to convince those.  They're in the bag.  You need to convince the 20% moderates and independents.  What do they care about?

Their wallet
Their safety
The future of their kids

Saying "Trump is evil" a million times isn't enough.  Say something that appeals to these people's concerns ffs.

Kamala did something unprecedented though, I'll give her that...  she managed to piss off the Jews and Muslims at the same time That took talent.  Likely lost Michigan because the Muslim citizens protested by not voting for her and lost Pennsylvania because 3 percent of the population there is Jewish.

[elitedam]

There is a difference between being perceived as too far left versus actually being too far left. No matter how centrist the Dem candidate is, they will always be branded as a dangerous commie.

So why not run someone with some actual progressive ideas?

I know the US is more conservative than people usually think, but there are some progressive issues that are pretty popular. Stuff like abortion, legalizing the devil's lettuce, affordable health care have had a lot of success as ballot initiatives.

I think running on abortion is smart, but running on just abortion was a terrible idea. It felt like everything else was minimized, an afterthought.

In the end, I think she was just a poor candidate that only got as far as she did because there was no real primary.

[Pedram]

NEWS: Thanks to a provision buried in the tax code, Elon Musk will now be in a position to be eligible for the largest personalized tax gift in the 250-year history of the United States of America. https://t.co/mDKNYazSsh

— David Sirota (@davidsirota) November 6, 2024

This guy is already the biggest winner of the election.

[sportsczy]

There is a difference between being perceived as too far left versus actually being too far left. No matter how centrist the Dem candidate is, they will always be branded as a dangerous commie.

So why not run someone with some actual progressive ideas?

I know the US is more conservative than people usually think, but there are some progressive issues that are pretty popular. Stuff like abortion, legalizing the devil's lettuce, affordable health care have had a lot of success as ballot initiatives.

I think running on abortion is smart, but running on just abortion was a terrible idea. It felt like everything else was minimized, an afterthought.

In the end, I think she was just a poor candidate that only got as far as she did because there was no real primary.

Because you lose. Harris tried desperately to distance herself from progressive policies such as:
- open border
- extreme regulation on fossil fuels (biggest reason for inflation in the US as oil prices went from $2 to almost $4)
- wokeness for lack of a better term

These were the 3 biggest issues for those who voted for Trump per exit polls: 1) the border 2) the econonomy and 3) free speech/cancel culture.

She couldn't do it and lost.

People were fed up with it.

[BarrileteCosmico]

There is a difference between being perceived as too far left versus actually being too far left. No matter how centrist the Dem candidate is, they will always be branded as a dangerous commie.

So why not run someone with some actual progressive ideas?

I know the US is more conservative than people usually think, but there are some progressive issues that are pretty popular. Stuff like abortion, legalizing the devil's lettuce, affordable health care have had a lot of success as ballot initiatives.

I think running on abortion is smart, but running on just abortion was a terrible idea. It felt like everything else was minimized, an afterthought.

In the end, I think she was just a poor candidate that only got as far as she did because there was no real primary.

The problem is that a lot of progressive ideas are unpopular. What's progressive these days? Climate policy, trans rights (to the extreme that the government knows better than the parents), Gaza, affirmative action, cancel culture, student loan forgiveness, MMT, etc.

Are there good progressive ideas too? Yes, absolutely, but just look at where the Biden administration spent their political capital. Their signature bill was the IRA and CHIPS act, which was basically a bill that promoted manufacturing in red states (which didn't help it at all) and that promoted green energy investments. Is green energy important? Yes. Is it in an everyday American's top 5 issues? Hardly.

(There was also a provision in the IRA about lowering medicaid costs - that was really good and popular! I wonder why it was barely mentioned since I forgot about it until I just googled it now)

Imagine if Biden had spent his political capital on a federal minimum wage of $15, minimum parental leave of 12 weeks, and minimum 4 weeks of vacation per year. That would have been really impactful to millions of Americans. What Biden actually chose to focus on? Not so much.

I think this is what Bernie got at in the tweet posted above. The Dems have forgotten about the basics. At this rate in 10 years the GOP will be the party of the working class and the rich while the Dems become the party of the middle and upper middle class.

At any rate I think Kamala was given a very hard hand to play. Biden pretty much set her up for failure, and regardless of who was running or on which platform the damage had already been done. Cumulative 20% inflation and 1.9m illegal immigrants granted asylum. Incumbents lost everywhere in the post-Covid world and it makes sense for the US to follow that trend.

[sportsczy]

NEWS: Thanks to a provision buried in the tax code, Elon Musk will now be in a position to be eligible for the largest personalized tax gift in the 250-year history of the United States of America. https://t.co/mDKNYazSsh

— David Sirota (@davidsirota) November 6, 2024

This guy is already the biggest winner of the election.

He took a huge risk. It was 50/50 going in. The safe bet would have been to keep quiet and let whoever wins, wins. He's already the richest man in the world. But for those who don't know, this is why Musk backed Trump so hard:

Before the age of 18, Musk's son was allowed to transition to becoming a woman without consent from his parents. It happened in 2022. That triggered Musk. You can google it and read about it.

So there is a very personal reason why he's become conservative... and a good one.

[BarrileteCosmico]

NEWS: Thanks to a provision buried in the tax code, Elon Musk will now be in a position to be eligible for the largest personalized tax gift in the 250-year history of the United States of America. https://t.co/mDKNYazSsh

— David Sirota (@davidsirota) November 6, 2024

This guy is already the biggest winner of the election.

He got ridiculed by everyone for over-paying for Twitter, but how much is the power to elect a president worth? At any rate hard to see that relationship last.

[elitedam]

I feel like we're agreeing with each other. I stated some positions that I think are popular. I'm not talking about fringe stuff. Minimum wage increase was another one I forgot to mention. The FL amendment was passed with 60% of the vote, even as it was trending red.

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