World Cup 2022 - Group C

Let the tears flow, I'm here for the salt

El Gunner wrote:still changes nothing... what a sorry ass team... depending on a half-injured 35 y.o. Messi to carry them

They really aren't particularly good.

El Gunner wrote:still changes nothing... what a sorry ass team... depending on a half-injured 35 y.o. Messi to carry them

true... The performances are absolutely shambolic overall, Brazil would surely beat them if they met along the way

Argentina need to finish 1st. It would be a shame to have France v Argentina in the round of 1/8 (again). Need to get these two teams to the 1/4 stage at least.

Brazil is not very good either without Neymar... similar to France with Mbappe, he's the only "magic" they have on that team. Otherwise, not that great.

Messi now has the same number of WC appearances AND goals as Maradona. GOAT

sportsczy wrote:Brazil is not very good either without Neymar... similar to France with Mbappe, he's the only "magic" they have on that team. Otherwise, not that great.

I kinda disagree, brazil have much more talent. Even without Neymar they have Vini, Rodrygo, Gabi Jesus, Richarlison, Paqueta, Guimaraes, Casemiro, Raphinha, Antony, Martinelli

much better depth and also superior defense, Argentina play with 40 year old Messi and Di Maria, cmon

No man.  I mean talent is very high with France NT, just very young and not proven on NT because there's a lot of competition.  You're not going to tell me that Brazil have a better defense than Kounde, Varane, Konate, Upamecano, Theo Hernandez.

Also, I know Paqueta and Guimamaraes very well from Ligue 1.  They are very very inconsistent... either world beaters or completely absent.  That's why Lyon actually did not control games while both were on the team.  Casemiro is the only top class midfielder there.  Tchouameni, Rabiot and Griezmann (he's playing the AM) is better than Brazil's midfield IMO... not worse in any case.  

Mbappe >>> Vini
Giroud > Rodrygo (currently, Rodrygo is just learning to play as a CF; he obviously has more talent)
Dembele and Coman >>> every RW on Brazil

France and Brazil were pretty much even if Neymar was healthy.  Without Neymar, they are markedly not as good.

Brazil is pretty loaded though, Vini is elite, then u got Martinelli, Jesus, etc.. Anyway, Neymar should be back latest after group stage right?

Still now on for Bra/Arg Semi n then v Fra final hopefully... Messi to beat Neymar n then Mbappe to win would be such a wet dream

I think Neymar, at best, returns for the semis. The pic of his ankle looks like minimum of 2 weeks.

How does de Paul go from being MOTM against Brazil at the Maracana 15 months ago to... whatever it is he's doing now? @robespierre what's up?

@BC... i haven't watched Argentina (or Poland to be honest) enough. What's your feeling on this one?

sportsczy wrote:Argentina need to finish 1st. It would be a shame to have France v Argentina in the round of 1/8 (again). Need to get these two teams to the 1/4 stage at least.

They have changed the knock outs sports from other years. You don’t cross to the other side by finishing 2nd. Groups A,B, C &D are one half and the others in the other side. That means Argentina and France (assuming both progress) meet before the final. Plus looking at those top half groups, it’s hard to imagine anyone else other than those two making it to final. Bottom has Brasil, and likely Spain, Portugal, Uruguay, Belgium, Croatia as possibilities. Brasil IMO, clearly the favourites, but I think the bottom half is a lot tougher.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:How does de Paul go from being MOTM against Brazil at the Maracana 15 months ago to... whatever it is he's doing now? @robespierre what's up?

He looks so out of form, gets so much wrong it's weird to see.

After Messi's goal the team looked much more relaxed and confident. They were too tense before, let's if they carry the confidence to the next matches.

In general it seems like Arg players all declined in form since last season. Bad timing for the WC but they can still click into place. In the end what matters is getting out of the groups, and then a new tournament starts.

sportsczy wrote:No man.  I mean talent is very high with France NT, just very young and not proven on NT because there's a lot of competition.  You're not going to tell me that Brazil have a better defense than Kounde, Varane, Konate, Upamecano, Theo Hernandez.

Also, I know Paqueta and Guimamaraes very well from Ligue 1.  They are very very inconsistent... either world beaters or completely absent.  That's why Lyon actually did not control games while both were on the team.  Casemiro is the only top class midfielder there.  Tchouameni, Rabiot and Griezmann (he's playing the AM) is better than Brazil's midfield IMO... not worse in any case.  

Mbappe >>> Vini
Giroud > Rodrygo (currently, Rodrygo is just learning to play as a CF; he obviously has more talent)
Dembele and Coman >>> every RW on Brazil

France and Brazil were pretty much even if Neymar was healthy.  Without Neymar, they are markedly not as good.

Sports, he was referring to Brasil better than Messi and co, not France. In any event, Brasil won’t play either until the final!

futbol_bill wrote:

sportsczy wrote:Argentina need to finish 1st.  It would be a shame to have France v Argentina in the round of 1/8 (again).  Need to get these two teams to the 1/4 stage at least.

They have changed the knock outs sports from other years. You don’t cross to the other side by finishing 2nd. Groups A,B, C &D are one half and the others in the other side. That means Argentina and France (assuming both progress) meet before the final. Plus looking at those top half groups, it’s hard to imagine anyone else other than those two making it to final. Bottom has Brasil, and likely Spain, Portugal, Uruguay, Belgium, Croatia as possibilities. Brasil IMO, clearly the favourites, but I think the bottom half is a lot tougher.

Ah.  I'll have to read up on what it is they're doing now.  Thanks Bill.

Good luck re Germany.  I like how Spain play.  Much better than when you were winning trophies IMO. I think you'll eventually win trophies this way too.

I wish France had a manager that wasn't 90s style Serie A ffs. With the talent we have, we should play a much better brand of football. We win trophies... but that has more to do with the talent than the manager. DD really gets on my nerves. Zidane won't be better either IMO though. Same style.

Luis Enrique gets the credit. There is no breakout player in squad, half of them kids, most are bench players and yet, they and France are the only ones of the Europeans that have looked decent.

There had been a lot of criticism of Enrique, particularly after he had almost 70 or was it
80 players on his ‘possibility’ list, but he apparently is pretty creative, using technology etc in getting players to play his way. It is possession still, but much more direct.

And it looks like he could have made any of the ‘possibilities’ work in his system. Very impressive! Luis Enrique gets the credit. There is no breakout player in squad, half of them kids, most are bench players and yet, they and France are the only ones of the Europeans that have looked decent.

But they have to beat Germany tomorrow and will eventually have Brasil to deal with!  

futbol_bill wrote:

sportsczy wrote:Argentina need to finish 1st. It would be a shame to have France v Argentina in the round of 1/8 (again). Need to get these two teams to the 1/4 stage at least.

They have changed the knock outs sports from other years. You don’t cross to the other side by finishing 2nd. Groups A,B, C &D are one half and the others in the other side. That means Argentina and France (assuming both progress) meet before the final. Plus looking at those top half groups, it’s hard to imagine anyone else other than those two making it to final. Bottom has Brasil, and likely Spain, Portugal, Uruguay, Belgium, Croatia as possibilities. Brasil IMO, clearly the favourites, but I think the bottom half is a lot tougher.

Looking at the schedule, and I definitely could be wrong since its kind of confusing, it looks like France and Argentina meet in the final if they both progress and win the groups.

For example, if all favorites win:

R16 - 50: 1C vs 2D (Argentina vs Denmark)
QF - 57: W50 vs W49 (Argentina vs Netherlands)
SF - 61: W57 vs W58 (Argentina vs Brazil)
F - 64: W61 vs W62 (Argentina vs France)

I guess I read it wrong then. Looks like the cross over happens for the semis!

sportsczy wrote:@BC... i haven't watched Argentina (or Poland to be honest) enough.  What's your feeling on this one?

My sense, which I have said repeatedly over the past few years, is that we suck and the win-streak seriously overrated us. This is not a RJ, this is my legit opinion on this team.

We are over-reliant on Messi and Di Maria as our difference makers, 2 aging and (in Dima's case) injury-prone players. Lo Celso used to provide another spark of creativity but he was left out injured, and de Paul not playing up to his standards of a year ago, leaving us with no creativity in the midfield. This has become painfully obvious over the past 2 matches.

As for goal threats, it's only Lautaro and Messi. Messi is often marked out in later-stage matches, leaving only really one goal thread. Again, this is a fragile set up that is easy to expose.

Messi has been picking up the ball in his own half like he did in 2010, and is then forced to get through the entire opposing team to get a chance at the goal. Not a recipe for success here either.

On the flip side, Scaloni is very much a coach in the Lippi tradition that a strong and united group can outperform, and this group has quality and is very united. And for the first time in a long time we actually have quality in the back. This is important, but I don't think important enough to make us go the distance.

As for the group, the logical thing is that Argentina beats Poland, who haven't impressed too much in either game. But the match to watch will be Saudi Arabia-Mexico. If Mexico prevails by few goals, even a draw will likely see both Argentina and Poland go through. I don't rule out a 2nd place finish, but think we will go into the game looking to win and seal the 1st place.

If we do end up facing France, I think that's the end of us again, but will obviously hope for the upset.

rincon wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:How does de Paul go from being MOTM against Brazil at the Maracana 15 months ago to... whatever it is he's doing now? @robespierre what's up?

He looks so out of form, gets so much wrong it's weird to see.

After Messi's goal the team looked much more relaxed and confident. They were too tense before, let's if they carry the confidence to the next matches.

In general it seems like Arg players all declined in form since last season. Bad timing for the WC but they can still click into place. In the end what matters is getting out of the groups, and then a new tournament starts.

We looked better after the goal because Mexico could no longer park the bus and were forced to attack, giving us space to work with. I don't think teams in the knock-out stages will be happy to park the bus (or at least from quarters onwards)

Call me crazy but I still have very good feelings about Argentinas chances. I’m getting very strong vibes of the last 4 winners (Italy, Spain, Germany, and France). All of them started slowly and unconvincingly but (this is the key part) clearly had quality in the squad and had shown it before the tournament. It’s rare for the teams that start strongest (in this case France and Spain) to keep that up and go all the way.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:How does de Paul go from being MOTM against Brazil at the Maracana 15 months ago to... whatever it is he's doing now? @robespierre what's up?

lol son is not a footballer, im convinced

futbol_bill wrote:

sportsczy wrote:Argentina need to finish 1st. It would be a shame to have France v Argentina in the round of 1/8 (again). Need to get these two teams to the 1/4 stage at least.

They have changed the knock outs sports from other years. You don’t cross to the other side by finishing 2nd. Groups A,B, C &D are one half and the others in the other side. That means Argentina and France (assuming both progress) meet before the final. Plus looking at those top half groups, it’s hard to imagine anyone else other than those two making it to final. Bottom has Brasil, and likely Spain, Portugal, Uruguay, Belgium, Croatia as possibilities. Brasil IMO, clearly the favourites, but I think the bottom half is a lot tougher.

are you sure bc I filled out the brackets and if Argentina finish 1st they'll face brazil (if they finish 1st) in the semis whereas if they finish 2nd and france finishes 1st they'll meet in the 1/16. Argentina and France will meet in the finals if they both finish 1st and win out

These Argentina games are too stressful. Messi FC is suffering out here.

Casciavit wrote:These Argentina games are too stressful. Messi FC is suffering out here.

True