Cavani banned for 3 matches by FA for social media post

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:40 am

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/nov/30/edinson-cavani-fa-investigation-social-media-instagram-post

Sigh... Here we go again

No trust the fa will get this call right either


Last edited by BarrileteCosmico on Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Arquitecto Mon Nov 30, 2020 10:16 am

If he is banned for this I do not know what to say given context clearly will escape their heads as that term is used endearingly in Latin America.

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Post by Myesyats Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:24 am

Arquitecto wrote:If he is banned for this I do not know what to say given context clearly will escape their heads as that term is used endearingly in Latin America.


The article states that Suarez used the same argument in 2011 and received a 8 match ban so.... I wouldn't bet on that excuse. It's just weird to refer to someone by their color and perhaps it need adjustment on the cultural level.
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Post by Thimmy Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:10 pm

Myesyats wrote:
Arquitecto wrote:If he is banned for this I do not know what to say given context clearly will escape their heads as that term is used endearingly in Latin America.


The article states that Suarez used the same argument in 2011 and received a 8 match ban so.... I wouldn't bet on that excuse. It's just weird to refer to someone by their color and perhaps it need adjustment on the cultural level.


It was the wrong decision then, and it would be the wrong decision now, as well. I assume the FA just want to appease and quell the rage from people who are quick to shout racism, even when they aren't familiar with the details of the situation, and the result is a verdict that is unjust, and hasn't been thought through well enough. The Suarez incident is a prime example of it. These situations need to be investigated properly before such decisions are made.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/oct/26/luis-suarez-am-i-a-racist-no-absolutely-not-i-was-horrified
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Post by rincon Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:35 pm

There is 0 racism in what Cavani wrote. Among many terrible things, one of the great things in parts of latin america is the lack of racism in these actions. Not that there isn't racism, but it's not expressed in the same way as the english speaking world.

For the most part in Venezuela, for example, few give a crap about discriminating due to skin color. We are all mixed and there is no tension in using these nicknames because of this. Everyone uses these terms in an endearing way, it's common that you call your spouse/partner/friend negro/negra affectionately, regardless of skin color. Everyone has a friend called "el negro", who doesn't even need to be black (and it goes for everything else like "el chino", or whatever characteristic you want to choose).

Shoutout to one of our independence heroes, El Negro Primero (The First Black), famous for his role in our independence war due to his prowess and becoming the first black officer of Bolivar.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Camejo

or the very famous venezuelan singer "chino" who is in no way chinese, as
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chino_%26_Nacho

Mi negra/negro is such a common term for a thing you like, that a populist proposal by a presidential candidate back in the 2000s was a black cash card called "Mi Negra" to distribute public funds to people.

This is a case of projecting English sensibilities onto Cavani and (possibly) punishing him for it.
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Post by futbol_bill Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:09 pm

Not to mention they call an expresso, negrita (little blackie) or maroncita (little brownie) for expresso with a little milk.
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Post by Arquitecto Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:23 pm

Glad to see no one here is freaking out similar to what happened during the Suarez incident. Very informative by Rincon, there. (Whom all this time I assumed was Italian-American).
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Post by RealGunner Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:29 pm

Hope he gets banned till ender da season

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Post by Lord Spencer Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:49 pm

It is so on-point for the British empire to police the cultural terms of the resort of the world.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Nov 30, 2020 4:24 pm

Myesyats wrote:
Arquitecto wrote:If he is banned for this I do not know what to say given context clearly will escape their heads as that term is used endearingly in Latin America.


The article states that Suarez used the same argument in 2011 and received a 8 match ban so.... I wouldn't bet on that excuse. It's just weird to refer to someone by their color and perhaps it need adjustment on the cultural level.


We do this by all sorts of traits. We call people fat, skinny, bald, hairy, dark, light, tall, short, etc. We also call people all sorts of nationalities that are completely inaccurate. We will call middle easterns "Turks", east asians "Chinese" (this blue eyed girl calls herself "La China Suarez" because she is 1/4... japanese), Jews "Russians", etc. We call one of my aunts "la negra" simply because she's the darkest in the family, but she's barely darker than any of her siblings. Fortunate or unfortunate it's a cultural trait. It's a very non-PC culture, and if you're coming from a PC culture as the anglosphere is then it can be a bit of a shock.

I will say "negro" can change a lot based on context though. It can be used endearingly (as it was by Cavani in this case), and 90% of the time it is used this way. But it can also be used as an insult or a hateful manner. However, there is an important distinction here in that if it's used insultingly then most of the time it's a reference to class and not race. This is because when it's used hatefully it's shorthand for the phrase "cabecita negra" or "negro villero", defined by wiki as:

"a term used in Argentina to denote, contemptuously, people belonging to the working class, who are typically associated with dark hair and dark skin."

So while on the face it's a reference to looks, it's mostly used as a reference to class. You could absolutely be a pale, blue eyed blond and still be called a "negro" if you grew up in the slums .

This is by way of explanation, I don't excuse it and think no one should refer to poor people in this way. But I think it's important to explain to foreigners who might understandably think someone from Argentina/Uruguay is a racist if he uses this kind of language, that the cultural context is different. Most people who use the term insultingly use it believing they are referencing class. It's 1000% inexcusable, but for different reasons.

Although undeniably there is a small minority of actually racist people who do use it in a racist way (typically referring to the indigenous population).

/rant
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:52 pm

United and Cavani have handled the situation quite well, but will the FA listen to them? We'll see I guess.

Cavani's statement on United's official website:

Cavani wrote:The message I posted after the match on Sunday was intended as an affectionate greeting to a friend, thanking him for his congratulations after the game. The last thing I wanted to do was cause offence to anyone. I am completely opposed to racism and deleted the message as soon as it was explained that it can be interpreted differently. I would like to sincerely apologise for this.

United's statement:

Official Announcement wrote:It is clear to us that there was absolutely no malicious intent behind Edinson’s message and he deleted it as soon as he was informed that it could be misconstrued. Edinson has issued an apology for any unintentional offence caused. Manchester United and all of our players are fully committed to the fight against racism.

[ Source ]
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Post by Lord Spencer Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:12 pm

United were the ones who dragged the Suarez situation way out of proportion, so it is hilarious to see the contradiction now.
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:36 pm

Suarez was clearly being racist though. When Evra asked him why he kicked him, he replied by saying "Porque tu eres negro". And then when Evra told him "Say it again and I will punch you". Suarez replied with: "I don't speak to Blacks". There was clearly malicious intent here and Suarez was using the word in a non-affectionate way.

In Cavani's case, it's totally different as he was thanking someone for congratulating him for his great performance. As BC and rincon very well explained, there was no malicious intent behind it and it all depends on the context in which the word is being used.
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Post by Arquitecto Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:28 pm

As much as I hate to relate this to Suarez given he was in Liverpool and here I am defending a United player, on the whole circumspect the clubs are irrelevant, here.

Suarez said Negrito not Negro but the context was malicious and to provoke him.

Cavani, who's a saint used it in only the most friendly terms.

Its hilarious to see people freaking out at this along with their tone deaf nature to any culture outside of theirs.

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Post by Myesyats Mon Nov 30, 2020 10:46 pm

Thimmy wrote:
Myesyats wrote:
Arquitecto wrote:If he is banned for this I do not know what to say given context clearly will escape their heads as that term is used endearingly in Latin America.


The article states that Suarez used the same argument in 2011 and received a 8 match ban so.... I wouldn't bet on that excuse. It's just weird to refer to someone by their color and perhaps it need adjustment on the cultural level.


It was the wrong decision then, and it would be the wrong decision now, as well. I assume the FA just want to appease and quell the rage from people who are quick to shout racism, even when they aren't familiar with the details of the situation, and the result is a verdict that is unjust, and hasn't been thought through well enough. The Suarez incident is a prime example of it. These situations need to be investigated properly before such decisions are made.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/oct/26/luis-suarez-am-i-a-racist-no-absolutely-not-i-was-horrified

You know I'm usually last to take a PC stance but this time I have mixed feelings. In this particular situation however I'm inclined to agree that Cavani should be absolved having read Rincon's and BC's arguments.

Though I still believe Suarez isn't a nice guy and was definitely abusive toward Evra back in 2011. And even without malicious intent, I still think it's quite weird to make someone aware of their color as if to make them feel bad about it.

To me, saying "gracias negrito" to a complete stranger is indeed weird anyhow no matter the culture, place or time.

You can be racially insensitive sometimes without really being racist IMO, this term should be used as a last resort toward people who are really awful aka segregationists or whatever.

I would imagine that's common speech among friends but I don't think that should be the norm when speaking to strangers.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:31 pm

Myesyats wrote:
Thimmy wrote:
Myesyats wrote:
Arquitecto wrote:If he is banned for this I do not know what to say given context clearly will escape their heads as that term is used endearingly in Latin America.


The article states that Suarez used the same argument in 2011 and received a 8 match ban so.... I wouldn't bet on that excuse. It's just weird to refer to someone by their color and perhaps it need adjustment on the cultural level.


It was the wrong decision then, and it would be the wrong decision now, as well. I assume the FA just want to appease and quell the rage from people who are quick to shout racism, even when they aren't familiar with the details of the situation, and the result is a verdict that is unjust, and hasn't been thought through well enough. The Suarez incident is a prime example of it. These situations need to be investigated properly before such decisions are made.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/oct/26/luis-suarez-am-i-a-racist-no-absolutely-not-i-was-horrified

You know I'm usually last to take a PC stance but this time I have mixed feelings. In this particular situation however I'm inclined to agree that Cavani should be absolved having read Rincon's and BC's arguments.

Though I still believe Suarez isn't a nice guy and was definitely abusive toward Evra back in 2011. And even without malicious intent, I still think it's quite weird to make someone aware of their color as if to make them feel bad about it.

To me, saying "gracias negrito" to a complete stranger is indeed weird anyhow no matter the culture, place or time.

You can be racially insensitive sometimes without really being racist IMO, this term should be used as a last resort toward people who are really awful aka segregationists or whatever.

I would imagine that's common speech among friends but I don't think that should be the norm when speaking to strangers.


he's not a stranger, he's a friend

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Post by Perucho21 Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:44 pm

There is nothing wrong with what he said but for some reason England act weird when culture shocked. In Latin America, terms like that as well as other terms that describe a persons appearance are all used in a non-racial matter. Negrito, flakito (skinny), chato (short), all accepted in Latin America and arent meant to discriminate usually but if its used in a different tone then you would know when that person is actually being an asshole.

For instance my aunt's nickname is negra, I don't call her that but my family does, even around white and black people, but I guess they understand the culture more than the English Laughing

Anyways, there is nothing wrong here.
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Post by FennecFox7 Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:08 am

Not just Latin America. We get called “negro” if we look black in Algeria. I don’t really look it too much but my cousin and a friend of mine are sahrawi and we call them negro all the time.we call Amazigh “zwawi” or “berber”, white people “byeda” which is white skinned in Algerian Arabic. PC culture is just wtf in these western countries, everything is about race to them
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Post by danyjr Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:45 pm

What a load of crap. I'm sure FA will punish it off course, regardless of the context otherwise they will face backlash from the PC crew.

Like most have said, these things have been normal in America with no underlying racism (especially the Spanish-speaking countries). People even have surnames like Moreno and Pardo ffs. Is their surname racist towards themselves? Laughing
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Post by Arquitecto Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:38 pm

Anglo countries have the tendency not to stfu in making it about race yet at the same time ironically are immune to knowing anything outside of their circle or culture.

Cavani getting banned will further highlight what a joke he is especially given it did not even happen on the fucking pitch.


But since he is a United player, objectively speaking I will agree if he is banned for the season.
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Post by Lord Spencer Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:29 pm

The Demon of Carthage wrote:Suarez was clearly being racist though. When Evra asked him why he kicked him, he replied by saying "Porque tu eres negro". And then when Evra told him "Say it again and I will punch you". Suarez replied with: "I don't speak to Blacks". There was clearly malicious intent here and Suarez was using the word in a non-affectionate way.

In Cavani's case, it's totally different as he was thanking someone for congratulating him for his great performance. As BC and rincon very well explained, there was no malicious intent behind it and it all depends on the context in which the word is being used.


That's how the case was presented, but not actually how it happened though.

It is a ridiculous statement to believe in the first place since Suarez had never shown before or since any form of racist behavior when a statement like "I don't speak to blacks" would suggest otherwise.

Not that the truth matters when the media the narrative was already decided.

Suarez knows that well enough:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/oct/26/luis-suarez-am-i-a-racist-no-absolutely-not-i-was-horrified
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Post by CBarca Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:54 pm

Arquitecto wrote:Anglo countries have the tendency not to stfu in making it about race yet at the same time ironically are immune to knowing anything outside of their circle or culture.

Cavani getting banned will further highlight what a joke he is especially given it did not even happen on the fucking pitch.


But since he is a United player, objectively speaking I will agree if he is banned for the season.


Mate I agree with you, but why don't you wait for the FA decision before you launch into your fifth tirade about the FA and the Anglo speaking world?

I don't doubt they'll manage to mess it up, but it seems like you're acting as if they've already made a decision here. "They didn't even have to investigate it" -- sure, they didn't have to, but they would have been crucified if they didn't by the english speaking world that doesn't understand the context. So they pretty much had to.

If they investigate it and then absolve him of any wrongdoing, all sides win here.
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Post by Arquitecto Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:02 pm

CBarca wrote:
Arquitecto wrote:Anglo countries have the tendency not to stfu in making it about race yet at the same time ironically are immune to knowing anything outside of their circle or culture.

Cavani getting banned will further highlight what a joke he is especially given it did not even happen on the fucking pitch.


But since he is a United player, objectively speaking I will agree if he is banned for the season.


Mate I agree with you, but why don't you wait for the FA decision before you launch into your fifth tirade about the FA and the Anglo speaking world?

I don't doubt they'll manage to mess it up, but it seems like you're acting as if they've already made a decision here. "They didn't even have to investigate it" -- sure, they didn't have to, but they would have been crucified if they didn't by the english speaking world that doesn't understand the context. So they pretty much had to.

If they investigate it and then absolve him of any wrongdoing, all sides win here.



I have nothing against the Anglosphere as otherwise I would be attacking the British Empire and their race in any apparent tirade I have made. Just because I have my annoyances with them does not mean I have any such prejudice. My prejudice is against the FA and as a whole for their overall conduct.

Why? The Suarez ban catalysed that but when I took my bias off I realised his provocative use of it was just plain bad since the man himself is questionable.

But as a whole their decisions are akin to the FIA from the Formula 1 world. Poorly handled and in bad faith.

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:07 pm



Beautifully made case. Fuck the FA and their 21st century colonialism.

I hope Cavani takes them to court (but very much doubt that he will).
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Post by Arquitecto Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:20 pm

Hr. Holm :bow:
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