UCL Ro16 2020/21 | Barcelona Vs PSG

Had an absolute shitter of a match against RM a few years ago, as well. But I’ll stop mentioning him anymore before I give Sports a stroke. The whole world can disagree for all I care, ever since he burst onto the scene, I find myself wishing he had more impact in matches where you want players of his status to step up. That’s my impression based on actually watching his performances.

That’s not me saying that he’s bad or not great, I do think he is an exciting player, but I’m not entirely convinced as far as his quality of decisiveness is concerned - judging within the framework of his status as one of the best players in the world, of course.

I would also like to add that I don't give a raging, flying fuck about what anyone on that World Cup winning, France squad ever did for France. I am sick and tired of hearing about it. Fantastic, collective achievement, but it means fuck all outside of that tournament.

Thimmy wrote:I would also like to add that I don't give a raging, flying fuck about what anyone on that World Cup winning, France squad ever did for France. I am sick and tired of hearing about it. Fantastic, collective achievement, but it means fuck all outside of that tournament.  

So let's ignore the performances in the biggest and most pressure-laden tournament by far in sports looool.

Good one.

So Maradonna, Pele, Zidane, R9, Iniesta, Xavi, etc. shouldn't get massive kudos based on their world cup performances and it shouldn't have contributed greatly to their respective legends.  It obviously didn't matter.  Nobody should give a fuck, as you put it.

@Dani.  This happened a week before the tournament last summer before the Atalanta, Leipzig, and Bayern games
...he actually was likely not to make the trip at all.  He played with an immobilized ankle and in pain.

Yes, let's ignore it as a yardstick or reference for how capable some players may be at club level. It doesn't make sense.

Thimmy wrote:I would also like to add that I don't give a raging, flying fuck about what anyone on that World Cup winning, France squad ever did for France. I am sick and tired of hearing about it. Fantastic, collective achievement, but it means fuck all outside of that tournament.

Hames rodriguez agrees. People thought he was going to be a generational player after his 2014 WC performance.

Mbappé is held to a truly ridiculous standard by some people.

There shouldn't be talks about you didn't do enough right after you scored 4 out of your team's 5 goals in a tie.

I'm not sure what you mean by "you didn't do enough". He certainly did do enough in those two games. No one's arguing against that. How are those two matches relevant, though?

To me, PSG looked like the convincingly better team in the first leg, where he scored a hattrick. Barca were improved in the second leg, but it still looked very much like an open game where both sides had plenty of chances to score. Call it high standards if you will, but those aren't the games where I expect him to step up.

Those are games where PSG would be wasteful with their chances if they didn't win, and to some extent, I think they were. They're a better team than the current Barca. The second leg performance from Barca is actually one of the better performances I've seen from them in recent time, and they still didn't look likely to score outside of that Messi screamer.

So far, in Mbappe's career, I would have hoped that he'd be more decisive in the matches where PSG don't look like they're about to win, independently of his inclusion. You all seem to consider that statement some kind of brutal criticism, but it's just the only flaw that I've observed in him, and it's got nothing to do with the last two matches where he excelled. Not the World Cup either.

I simply don't expect him to be decisive when PSG play against tough opposition. They typically lose when they do. I have yet to see it happen, but I hope he becomes more decisive in those matches in the future. It’s not like Messi and CR7 managed to evade the «big game flop» tags earlier in their careers, and they were both older than him when they still had it. I think Mbappe will end up at Real Madrid at some point, and in the big matches, I hope he can step up his game like our past greats have done when we’ve been successful.

Have to stand up for the French Walcott here. A knockout tie against Barca is always relevant. This is the big stage, and Sports' nephew rose to the occasion and scored 4 goals.

PSG, of all teams, know what it's like to blow a tie vs Barca.

Anyway, if it serves of evidence for what you asking @Thimmy, Mbappe was definitely the most dangerous player when we played Monaco, and we surely were significantly better than Monaco. He was one of the few player that looked threatening to us and actually scored, unlike someone like Lemar who was an absolute scrub.

sportsczy wrote:

@Dani.  This happened a week before the tournament last summer before the Atalanta, Leipzig, and Bayern games


...he actually was likely not to make the trip at all.  He played with an immobilized ankle and in pain.

Indeed. I saw it at the time but had since forgotten.

rincon wrote:

Anyway, if it serves of evidence for what you asking @Thimmy, Mbappe was definitely the most dangerous player when we played Monaco, and we surely were significantly better than Monaco. He was one of the few player that looked threatening to us and actually scored, unlike someone like Lemar who was an absolute scrub.

I actually didn’t watch that match, but thanks for bringing it up. I’m not quite convinced based on a single performance, but I’ll see if I can find and watch it somewhere. Thanks for sticking to the topic of the point I raised, Rincon

@Thimmy that's such a specific requirement though. Would it have been better had he decided this tie with a cagey last-minute goal instead of 4 goals and a 10/10 performance in the first leg?

@Rincon I guess just like the World Cup, his time at Monaco shouldn't count either Everything they say he can't do he already did in that first season. Not only were his goals against City and Dortmund decisive, but they also came at crucial moments of the game too.

Im enjoying what Thimmy is doing. He seemed apprehensive i hyping Haaland like he did Ødegaard and Ole because he was accused of being biased to Norwegians but our man is letting it out now.

And as phenomenal as Haaland is Mbappe still is the more established if not better player.

World Cup should indeed not be a measurement of anything as its a tournament for casuals as well and living off its glory day. Last great WC was in 2006 and the general quality of International does not compare to club level.

So therefore the WC of Mbappe is not the best argument but what he produces for his teams in a larger scale and and little individual moments compared to Haaland.

Haaland I see as a more limited, but more effective and natural goalscorer than Mbappe but the latter for me is a more complete package.

Though both do heavily rely on their pace I must say but the Frenchman is my pick if I would want a player in my team.

I definitely did anticipate that someone would turn this into a "you're just trying to hype up Haaland at Mbappe's expense". I don't know what to say. It doesn't have to be A compared to B every single time. At least, that wasn't my intention. As much as I enjoy watching Haaland in the Bundesliga, I can't imagine a likely scenario where he transfers to Real Madrid, all things considered. Mbappe, on the other hand, likely will. And that makes the latter more relevant to me.

Back to Mbappe. I don't think Sports needs to worry, because it's clear that Mbappe has the full support of GL, and that's great. I do think he'll become a Real Madrid player at some point, and I think people on here are conveniently overlooking what I think is a bottleneck to his capability at present time. I had thought that someone else would chime in on this discussion and share their thoughts, as his lack of impact in big games has been a discussion on here more than once in the past, but I suppose it doesn't matter now.

I'm not going to agree with ya'll that performing in big games is something he already excels at. That would mean that my eyes are cheating me. He has yet to convince me of that he can step up his game, rather than step down, when the going gets tough. I rarely watch PSG in ligue 1 these days, but I do try to analyze his performances in the CL, and I just can't ignore that he always seems to leave me quite underwhelmed against tougher opposition. I don't consider Dortmund much of a tough opposition, for that matter. He should've had a field day against their defense, but he didn't.

Part of me wanted Barcelona to be the test where he would finally show his quality against a tough side, but I also knew how poor they are these days, and I feel like you could replace him with a lesser player, and they'd still advance at Barca's expense - perhaps with less bravado and goal difference. Barca were the underdogs, and I definitely imagine Real Madrid would've been the same.

It's something I genuinely hope he improves on, because I can't motivate myself to watch Real Madrid these days, and we absolutely need someone who can be a difference-maker when it looks like we're in trouble. CR7 used to be that guy, even Bale and Ramos have made themselves stand out from the pack in matches where we've struggled. I don't see Mbappe as that type of player, the way he is now. As far as I'm concerned, you all have rose-tinted glasses

I think the number of players who would have done that to us in the 1st leg, is extremely small. Him, Ney and Messi himself are probably the only 3 players who would have put on that kind of domination, even if Barca were that poor.

We was even worse vs Juve in the final group game and no individual caused anywhere near the trouble.

Our overall tactics and effort were at horrifically low standards in that 1st game, but still, very few players would have put on that kind of performance in my opinion.

farfan wrote:@Thimmy  that's such a specific requirement though. Would it have been better had he decided this tie with a cagey last-minute goal instead of 4 goals and a 10/10 performance in the first leg?

@Rincon I guess just like the World Cup, his time at Monaco shouldn't count either Everything they say he can't do he already did in that first season.  Not only were his goals against City and Dortmund decisive, but they also came at crucial moments of the game too.

Again, I'm not sure what you're referring to. Requirement? I wish he was more impactful against the tougher sides that PSG tend to struggle against. That's not a requirement, not a demand. Call it a hope for the future, if you will. I think part of the reason why Messi and CR7 are as great as they are, is that, throughout their respective careers, they've been relied upon to decide difficult matches relatively often. It's not Mbappe's fault that PSG played against a decimated Barcelona side, but I don't count them as a tough opposition based on what I've seen over these two legs. They've got a single goal threat ffs.

What's with the bingo lady- style sarcasm, asking Rincon for agreement when you're talking to me?

I don't even know what we're debating here. Who even has the record Mbappe has at his age?

Messi, C. Ronaldo, Ronaldo Nazario, Haaland? That's it. And neither Messi or Ronaldo even had the record/achievements of what Mbappe has at his age. Although those two are definitely better players.

He's a transcendent talent.

Tough match impact was the initial point I wanted to discuss, but I give up. Did you see that goal he scored against FC Peugeot? World cup winner too. Amazing!

Thimmy wrote:Tough match impact was the initial point I wanted to discuss

He made an impact in his first two CL starts against a much superior opponent (City)

@Thimmy, i feel for you, being an army of one with your argument!

However, as you don’t consider Dortmund nor Barcelona as a tough opponent plus you seem to ignore the games he was injured, as well as games with France NT as irrelevant (possibly with Monaco as well), it seems the only possible games that would fit your criteria are only Bayern or City as practically ever previously ‘big’ team are having off season.

So how about you tell us exactly what games Mbappe has played in that he didn’t make the impact you expect.

futbol_bill wrote:@Thimmy, i feel for you, being an army of one with your argument!

However, as you don’t consider Dortmund nor Barcelona as a tough opponent plus you seem to ignore the games he was injured, as well as games with France NT as irrelevant (possibly with Monaco as well), it seems the only possible games that would fit your criteria are only Bayern or City as practically ever previously ‘big’ team are having off season.

So how about you tell us exactly what games Mbappe has played in that he didn’t make the impact you expect.

I would have to go through all of the CL matches he's played in, and point out matches that I think PSG looked uncomfortable in, and he ghosted through, like he did when he played against us. And to what end? He won the World Cup, bro! cool dribbler too. And fast! 5 goals against Barcelona, what more does he have to do? Nah, I think I'll eat some French fries instead.

For the record, I do think Dortmund are a fairly strong opponent, in terms of their attacking prowess. Aside from Haaland, they have some quite talented, young, offensive players. They also have Marco Reus, who's quite inconsistent these days, but undoubtedly has the talent to be decisive. However, their defense is simply just bad. Their best defender is Mats Hummels, who's far past his best. I'd fancy Sheffield United to score against them. I think Dortmund are quite unique in that they have to score a lot of goals, because unless they dominate possession, they will concede. This is also what makes them entertaining to watch.

What are the chances that @Thimmy doesn't like Mbappe because he seems to be the direct competition to his favorite boi Halaand? Don't get me wrong I like the curve he is going for.

I wholeheartedly disagree with Thimmy. I can agree with your Pogba agenda to some extent but not Mbappe. How can you not call him a big time player after his performance against Barcelona? Barcelonas performance this season shouldn't be an issue. They are still a top club with top players and scoring a hat trick at their home turf is nothing that should be looked over. Also let's not ignore his performances in the 16/17 CL with Monaco.

The world cup shouldn't ignored br either. I get the club football has risen but the world cup in my opinion is still a major trophy and the top competition that every player wishes to be part of and potentially win.

Perhaps your agenda is because of Haaland which tbh is understandable. Haaland is a massive talent and either signing would satisfy Madrid.

You are all a bunch of retards, I swear

You criticized modern-day Jesus and you expect people to let it slide without giving you a proper witch-hunt? Good god man, might as well go to church naked

No but seriously though, I agree with you about Mbappe. I think he's a great player but not as good as many people portray him to be. I don't think he's as good as Messi or Ronaldo nor will he ever reach their ceiling, and I completely agree with you about the fact that he sometimes tend to go missing in Europe's biggest stage (still remember the unbelievably shitty performance he gave against Madrid like it was yesterday).

I also completely get your "meh" reaction after he buried Barça. After all, and this is something that many posters here don't know or purposely choose to ignore, this is a shitty, shitty Barça side that is so shitty it has developed a habit of getting roflstomped every time they go up against a heavyweight. So beating them in their current state doesn't and shouldn't qualify as him beating a top side, because they no longer are. Same goes for Madrid - if PSG draws Madrid in the quarters (assuming we don't bend over to Atalanta), I won't be impressed if he runs circles around our shitty players and score another hattrick.

Because all things considered, it seems to me that some people still consider beating Madrid, Barça and Atlético a great achievement and have forgotten that those three are nothing like they used to and can't in any way shape or form be considered elite. Beating the current Bayern or City team on the other hand would definitely catapult him to a status where everybody including the most skeptics of us would gladly admit that the kid is finally a force to be reckoned with.

To me, Mbappe is a great player. Granted, he's nothing like Ronaldo or Messi, but there's nothing wrong with that. People like Thimmy get disappointed watching him because they feel his talent doesn't live up to the unbelievable hype they hear beforehand about him. And so they build this image about him of another prime Messi or Ronaldo based on the hype they hear to only get that same very image shattered to pieces later when they see him play.

And please oh please, stop comparing him to Haaland, they don't even play in the same position. I don't even think Thimmy gives a crap about which player between the two is better. He just voiced his opinion that Mbappe might be a tad overrated and not as efficient as many claim him to be and supported his view with sound arguments. There's nothing wrong with that as far as I'm concerned.

#OleOut

Thank you, DoC! You're the voice of reason in this jungle of tunnel vision supremacy

Thimmy can dish out the criticism but doesn’t like anyone poking holes in his rationale. If he was taking about overhyping (most probably by Sports, Farfan), the answer is maybe somewhat, but nothing like the Pogba hype!

Thimmy’s issue is specifically that Mbappe hasn’t “stepped up” in big, tough CL games. Given that Mbappe has played in only 33 (with PSG), and some of them he was injured, how many of them were “big games” - using his selective criteria?

His GPG ratio is 0.6 at PSG and 0.4 at Monaco, these stats included games played while injured and games at Monaco before he was established. If you want to look at how these stats compare, consider, Ronaldo’s stats at ManU, RMad and Juve are 0.6!

From a Madrid perspective, I’ll be happy with either one and ecstatic if Flo could somehow end up with both.

Both are already great players and who knows if either one will end up as good as Messi or Ronaldo. At their ages, noone knew if Ronaldo or Messi would turn out as dominant as they both have been.