The one time next Spanish generation of midfielders

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Post by futbol_bill Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:17 pm

There was a time when Thiago, Isco and Canales were the best of Spanish youth seleccion and these three were viewed as the successors of Xavi, Iniesta and Alonso!

What happened?

Thiago has had some bad injuries at inconvenience times, but otherwise has had a good career but not at a Xavi level. Other than Hans, he is probably underrated, but he has had more success than the other two.

Isco has flashes of brilliance, but he is inconsistent and never able to assert himself as a full time starter. He is not a Iniesta, more like Guti.

Canales was projected to be best of all, but a torn ACL killed that aspiration. However 10 years later and having played for almost half of la liga teams, he has returned to national team and is surprising performing very well.

It’s my conclusion that we may very well see Thiago and Canales as starters in next summer’s Euros and outside chance that Isco could join them (imo, if he does get called upon, he isn’t likely to start).

So 10 years later, this trio may well make up the seleccion midfield despite having overall disappointing careers (in comparison to initial assessments)!
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:28 pm

You can argue that Thiago should've become a household name, but it's hard to argue he's had a bad career. Won everything everywhere he's played. Always played for a top European side. And always played well, as long as he was fit. Would take him back in a heartbeat at Barca.

The disappointment is Rafinha who had similar levels of talent and hype but never materialized.
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Post by Arquitecto Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:22 pm

Thiago's early career was simply unlucky as I never will get why Pep refused to use him and credit to Bayern for unearthing his talent and giving the respect he deserved, and look at him now.

Isco remains who he is but wasn't even as talented Guti, if not anywhere near. I supported him a lot during his youth but rather find him limited now.


Canales is not the least bit surprising. In terms of raw talented likely above the both mentioned and no doubt needs to start for the Euros for us. His time at La Real was superb.
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Post by Thimmy Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:04 am

I feel like Thiago was always highly rated on here. I still remember how let down some of our Barca supporting members were, when they let him go.

I'm not comfortable with the Guti and Isco comparison. The way I see it, Guti was far more talented than Isco will ever be. He was perhaps even more inconsistent and nonchalant in his approach to the game, but Guti could casually stroll onto the field as a sub and have immediate impact without stepping into second or third gear. He just wasn't an enthusiastic type of player.

Isco can run his socks off and still have 0 impact. Guti seemed to perform better when the team needed him to. I don't know what makes Isco tick. I've always had a feeling that, like with Pogba, he needs the momentum or flow of the game to cater to him, rather than him influencing the flow of the game through his own efforts. And that's the difference between a talented player and a world class performer, in my opinion. I'm no expert on Thiago, but he seems like the type of player who can produce something, regardless of his team's form. Isco has never been that type of player. All my memories of his greatest performances, were in matches where we were comfortably dominating the opposition.
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Post by Arquitecto Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:06 am

Isco-Guti comparison is just bad because Guti was an enigma and from a football perspective a genius. Another similar one was Antonio Cassano in similar vein.

Isco is what he is and won't improve from here by just trying and is a fully developed product
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Post by futbol_bill Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:24 pm

My point was all three of these guys have never achieved the level of play, their early promise showed. None of them turned out to be the Xavi, Iniesta, Alonso replacements that at the time (team mates on youth seleccion), they were projected to be.

Their careers fell short for various reasons; major injuries, injuries with bad timing, Barca hiding back Thiago, Isco not ever finishing his development or maybe playing at a club that didn’t maximize his true talent and position.

My other point is 10 years later, they are playing well enough to be consideration for the starting midfield of the same team, they were expected to be dominating 5 or 6 years ago.

Before you restart dishing Isco, consider he was considered the automatic starter of this same team under Lopetequi in 2016 and in 2017/18 under Luis Enrique.
You may not consider the comparison to Guti, but both were primarily bench players at club level and Isco is far above Guti in terms of NT callups.

But I’m not here to defend any of the three, I just find it amazing that that dream some people had some 10 years ago may be happening. That to me is impressive, particularly Canales.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:08 pm

Let's be real, only a very small amount of people ever expected isco and canales to become xavi/Iniesta level players. If that's your problem the I think this is an issue of expectations management.
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Post by futbol_bill Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:55 pm

I’m talking about 10 years ago when these three were dominating the youth NT. Canales was at Racing, Isco was at Malaga (and soon to be European youth of year) and Thiago was a promising academy player making senior team. Certainly the Spanish media was making a big deal of them replacing at some point, the then current midfield on the senior NT.

I don’t have any problem as you suggest! I just find it incredible that some 10 years later they just might together make it onto the field with the senior NT despite their careers not hitting the level, they were projected to achieve. Only Thiago has come the closest to that ambition. But the amazing story of this (to me) is the reemergence of Canales.
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Post by Arquitecto Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:22 pm

They were never going to compare, Bill.

It was just our media trying to replicate the golden generation.


Thiago has turned his career into a memorable one but Canales simply suffered due to injuries. His renaissance is only surprising given few players come out this high again and this late into their careers but relative to his raw talent it is not the least bit surprising.


Isco of all of them has performed the least and that is not hyperbole.
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Post by futbol_bill Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:48 pm

I don’t disagree, but it was more than media ten years ago. That youth team was dominant and led by those three at same time the senior team was also dominant led by Xavi, Iniesta and Xabi.

As I said before, i just find it incredible that 10 years later that dream of some might happen after all.

And not to defend Isco but it was he (of the three) who was. The European youth player of year and he has far more seleccion starts and callups than the other two.
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Post by Arquitecto Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:50 am

Isco had an incredibly strong start but mostly impressed before he was in Madrid and naturally players being in the Top 2 obvious teams will get more calls out of their attention and political frontage behind it. He's has a respectable career individually just not what we had hoped as one Thiago has truly come through in that regard. All of them are in their prime now so the coming Euros will be their swangsong.
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Post by futbol_bill Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:57 pm

Arquitecto wrote:Isco had an incredibly strong start but mostly impressed before he was in Madrid and naturally players being in the Top 2 obvious teams will get more calls out of their attention and political frontage behind it. He's has a respectable career individually just not what we had hoped as one Thiago has truly come through in that regard. All of them are in their prime now so the coming Euros will be their swangsong.


I agree.

Thiago is the only one that has had a good career, not a Xavi level, but good nonetheless. But in terms of NT, his appearances have been limited, as our DEAR friend Hans has pointed out numerous times. I really don’t know why as he (IMO and Hans’) is our best.

Canales gets high marks in my book because his career was all but over with that torn ACL and now in the late stages of his career after playing for half of the teams in la liga, he has finally been given the opportunity on the big stage and he has capitalized on it.

Isco has had flashes of greatness, both at club and NT, but his overall game is inconsistent. With the number of options at MF for Enrique and his limited unimpressive performances at Madrid, Enrique appears to have changed his mind on Isco, who not too long ago, was an automatic choice.
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Post by futbol_bill Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:23 pm

breaking news:

Isco has asked to leave Madrid in January and the club has said they are open to the idea. He wants to play more and hopefully convince Enrique that he can play in next summer's Euros.

do you think he actually read my post from yesterday?
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Post by futbol_bill Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:29 pm

a bit early but I'm predicting the following starting lineup for Euros, cheers

Morata
Canales, Thiago, Isco
Rodri
Gaya, Ramos, Torres or Garcia, Carvajal
Unai Simon
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Post by Arquitecto Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:31 am

Isco's time in Madrid is finished. He failed to repay Zidane's faith and in a new transitional phase he must be shafted out, in my opinion.

Our line-up posted looks good just very shaky backline bar Ramos and and Morata can drop form in a flash knowing him. Unai in the back is a risk despite his talent but De Gea wont pick up any time soon so appreciate that inclusion.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:55 am

futbol_bill wrote:a bit early but I'm predicting the following starting lineup for Euros, cheers

Morata
Canales, Thiago, Isco
Rodri
Gaya, Ramos, Torres or Garcia, Carvajal
Unai Simon


groundbreaking 4-1-3-1 formation :bow: :bow:
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