left vs right views

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Nishankly
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Post by El Gunner Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:14 pm

@Arquitecto wrote:Aye lets just blame capitalism, elites and "inequality" and not a being choosing to be autonomous for their own future but blaming individuals who earned their money by the sweat of their brow.

Capitalism is great, end of. If the polities that ruin it are controlled it'll be even better and taking down elites will serve no one nor are they the enemy.


Societal victimisation is a form of aggrandizement and there is a reason why Communism failed and always will. Society to government to the world owes you or I nothing. I challenge anyone to take self autonomy and realise money is not just about material but how it buys you freedom. And nothing tastes sweeter.


The root of evil is in the individual, not a collective storm of oppressive force.


unbelievable.

how can you ever champion the thought that one can be autonomous for one's own future when you don't even know what tomorrow holds for you, there are variables - infinite possibilities. And more importantly, how can you dismiss that there are collective aspects to life and that we cannot have an influence over those. We can change our ideals and value systems, and so too can we change society and lay the grounds for a more harmonious existence between people, outside of just chasing money. There is nothing wrong about working for compensation, but with it must come a sense of collective unity and equality in society - not inherently capitalising on the misfortunes of others/other communities/other countries.

You keep bringing up communist examples from the past? But this world has actually never realised and achieved communism. Pure communism. Global communism.

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Post by Young Kaz Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:19 pm

@Thimmy wrote:I don’t get the impression that there are any right wingers on this forum. I certainly don’t identify as right-leaning, myself. I thought of myself as quite a liberal, progressive, when I first joined these forums. Nowadays, liberals and progressives are pretty much the same thing. But hey! Let’s continue to talk about how much better the left is than the shameful and whiny right! Or we can scrap the sides idea, as suggested, and call them the non-binaries hmm


We had a person in here say multiculturalism does not work, and made a Eugenics argument for Ethiopia earlier in this thread. In what world is that not right leaning? Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Do we have to have someone on here advocating the gassing of jews before our right credentials are granted?

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Post by Babun Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:23 pm

Please discuss here issues related into categorisation of leftist or right views. What is from your point of view right or far right? What is left or far left? Which direction are you heading to? What is your identity on the political map from your POV?
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Post by Myesyats Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:36 pm

I would consider myself a centrist. I'm liberal when it comes to most issues: guns, abortion, gay rights/marriage,religion, environment, healthcare but when there is BS, i call out the BS. I find it alarming when people are radically to the left or to the right because both perspectives are needed, in moderation of course.

This is what i got on politicalcompass, if anyone has a better test i'd gladly take it.
left vs right views - Page 2 Chart?ec=-3.38&soc=-3

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Post by Babun Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:16 am

left vs right views - Page 2 Chart?ec=-3.63&soc=-2
Our diagrams are similar, an interesting website.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:05 am

See threads:

https://goallegacy.forumotion.com/t40196-your-political-ideology

https://goallegacy.forumotion.com/t38416-where-in-the-political-spectrum-do-you-stand

Even though only 2 variables is quite simplistic (still far better than speaking of " left vs right")
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Post by Warrior Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:50 am

I did it 3-4 times before and always ended up in the green square too Laughing a little closer to the very center than you guys

I doubt it's accurate

How would they know what % of importance each category has in my mind ? As example i see pro-lifes/guntards/anti-gays as total melts yet these fights are already won where i live. But then i would reform our healthcare system, reduce welfare, reduce taxes, reduce government subventions, increase prison terms for serious crimes... and all that matters much more if i must vote. On the test it has equal importance.
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Post by El Gunner Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:37 pm

mine

https://i.servimg.com/u/f69/18/75/76/10/my_pol10.png

but like Warrior said, i don't think it's a 100% accurate representation of all my views. The market questions are simple, but political ideology gets a bit muddy when social dynamics enters the question. Especially when we truly don't know yet of the all the possibilities of how a truly global communist landscape would look like and feel like. How free we could be, could make some questions on that list irrelevant.
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Post by Robespierre Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:08 pm

I'm leftist, tbf right just to write.
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Post by rincon Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:40 pm

@Myesyats wrote:I would consider myself a centrist. I'm liberal when it comes to most issues: guns, abortion, gay rights/marriage,religion, environment, healthcare but when there is BS, i call out the BS. I find it alarming when people are radically to the left or to the right because both perspectives are needed, in moderation of course.

This is what i got on politicalcompass, if anyone has a better test i'd gladly take it.
left vs right views - Page 2 Chart?ec=-3.38&soc=-3

This compass is made from a US perspective, mine is exactly the same result as yours. Which very much makes us US leftists in these categories.

The centre is different in Europe. Universal healthcare and education, gay rights, caring for the environment, things like this are center in our countries, so the compass axis would be shifted down and to the left from a European perspective.
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Post by VivaStPauli Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:11 pm

We did the diagram thing here years ago.

I've moved a bit.

left vs right views - Page 2 Chart?ec=-8.75&soc=-8
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Post by Warrior Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:57 pm

@El Gunner wrote:a truly global communist landscape would look like and feel like. How free we could be


What a Face
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:12 pm

Maybe we should give this test a shot:

https://8values.github.io

My results:

left vs right views - Page 2 KRC0I6Z

Roughly where I expected to be placed, I'd say this is fairly accurate for me (although perhaps a bit too extreme in some placements)

There's also this one, which is like the traditional PoliticalCompass but adds a variable for conservative-progressive:

https://sapplyvalues.github.io

Where I scored

left vs right views - Page 2 LRaYlbc

This one made me a more centrist than I usually score, especially on the authority scale, but maybe it just reflects my getting older.

In the OG PoliticalCompass I typically score somewhere around 0, -5


Last edited by BarrileteCosmico on Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Myesyats Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:16 pm

@rincon wrote:
@Myesyats wrote:I would consider myself a centrist. I'm liberal when it comes to most issues: guns, abortion, gay rights/marriage,religion, environment, healthcare but when there is BS, i call out the BS. I find it alarming when people are radically to the left or to the right because both perspectives are needed, in moderation of course.

This is what i got on politicalcompass, if anyone has a better test i'd gladly take it.

This compass is made from a US perspective, mine is exactly the same result as yours. Which very much makes us US leftists in these categories.

The centre is different in Europe. Universal healthcare and education, gay rights, caring for the environment, things like this are center in our countries, so the compass axis would be shifted down and to the left from a European perspective.

Then I'm right to consider myself a centrist I guess.

@Warrior wrote:
@El Gunner wrote:a truly global communist landscape would look like and feel like. How free we could be


What a Face

If you understand communism as rule of one party, then it can never work while being completely free and liberal.

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Post by Robespierre Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:23 pm

left vs right views - Page 2 Chart?ec=-5.5&soc=-6

I hope Gramsci will appreciate it.
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Post by Warrior Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:25 pm

I made the effort of actually give answers... only 2 questions i reply idk/neutral

left vs right views - Page 2 D9a3ee10
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Post by Arquitecto Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:29 pm

@El Gunner wrote:
@Arquitecto wrote:Aye lets just blame capitalism, elites and "inequality" and not a being choosing to be autonomous for their own future but blaming individuals who earned their money by the sweat of their brow.

Capitalism is great, end of. If the polities that ruin it are controlled it'll be even better and taking down elites will serve no one nor are they the enemy.


Societal victimisation is a form of aggrandizement and there is a reason why Communism failed and always will. Society to government to the world owes you or I nothing. I challenge anyone to take self autonomy and realise money is not just about material but how it buys you freedom. And nothing tastes sweeter.


The root of evil is in the individual, not a collective storm of oppressive force.


unbelievable.

how can you ever champion the thought that one can be autonomous for one's own future when you don't even know what tomorrow holds for you, there are variables - infinite possibilities. And more importantly, how can you dismiss that there are collective aspects to life and that we cannot have an influence over those. We can change our ideals and value systems, and so too can we change society and lay the grounds for a more harmonious existence between people, outside of just chasing money. There is nothing wrong about working for compensation, but with it must come a sense of collective unity and equality in society - not inherently capitalising on the misfortunes of others/other communities/other countries.

You keep bringing up communist examples from the past? But this world has actually never realised and achieved communism. Pure communism. Global communism.



And do explain to me how contemplating variables and things out of my control will benefit myself or others. Autonomy is taking control of what you can take control of rather than expecting failed ideologies and a victim mindset to gift to straight into your hands. This is the way I choose to live my life and will influence my progeny in the same way. What is the result? Me to all whom I know in similar vein fucking love our life since we influence what is in our control rather than what is out of it, such as the world or countless variables.


I bring up examples of communism because countless countries have tried and are trying it and it has failed each and every single time. Similar to how Capitalism brings out some unwanted consistencies, communism is far worse and you only need to speak to former Soviet citizens to Cuba to Vietnam to Laos.


So why in the bloody hell do you think a world incapable of being united would work under a totally utopian rule?

What is your basis for that. And provide reasoning not subjective reason.


I can assure you that if one has money, thus enough for philanthropy and builds a foundation for it their clean spending on it is worth 10 times as much as any virtue signalling protest of political protest because it pays for what people actually want, not what many think they should have.


Greed whether good or not there is a reason we evolved from the barter system to the universal system of trust that is money. One should learn to value money not obsess over it otherwise they will indeed be lost.


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Post by VivaStPauli Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:38 pm

I remain unsurprised.

left vs right views - Page 2 JrSpEcKgzRTHrA1AhlOoDxXgeHM_m_8h_4ONd8FS1VEcBcvZsLfruoLGgPKnxmqVKbteT8dT12sZACfkG-sQjG1rGu3sIoc8qYmFkRX1VTtmWhRLR9VTf0Uo1AVVsWOLVjDcFrCxE_phhHy-TqxOgeexNX9QGWppxLa-9GFQuoRl_NU3TVEeGZTvAqQzfIqDZJfB0NKRXWmWdz12KbrZRzI8BkNDW4MjeN577Xip4blUPHOoieuyyk3CadIM4bLA6kfGRU_I7_vF-Fx81_MXTkrWFhSGqU4S_QeQYwTGhADN5Vxug8mD_EsrWb9215AxRRG6pbm44qNi_mxM_nf7E41QLh58Ap72qkufFS5Pm5t8JYaknnKy9HwPmF-UKh9IDPkToInrTpGNK--RyZDz516BRJ2lm_KV4qZvmO42ItNkm0Mu9lb_Q1qDX5yf8cehYGGeogQwVE9J-gcP-WBgsR88qXsjVsaxAdjyxvWN4_RwTgtV1_yDg-pCwTHJLCW4d5JjzEsrbrWCbvFvj_UkB5qcDy3Ty8PG_9IpJ-jP0KruRCDN0iJ-ESQZ7ircfsY8AYHkFKA1Ui1U7gyfvTIsHJF2qi4zhx2OEJqrzw80jckH6q0fhgyBvddtmNVOO-6auiZ1Hkz3K1WzEgg_xTjiPHGCr3YfSgpyQ2HCyTzD3afAfvlX0XBUnRJXsZwH2bY=w800-h650-no?authuser=0
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Post by Myesyats Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:38 pm


hmm

left vs right views - Page 2 Indeks10

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Post by Robespierre Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:44 pm

I feel it's correct.

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:46 pm

Seems like GL only moves on the economic scale, and not that much. Other than warrior who is a true centrist.

Echo chamber: confirmed
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Post by Warrior Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:47 pm

On the GL scale i am a fucking nazi Laughing Laughing
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Post by rincon Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:58 pm

Warrior is the man to unite us all Molenation

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Social democracy, nailed it for me.
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Post by VivaStPauli Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:26 pm

I mean we're in an international internet forum, not surprised we score high on Progress and Internationality.
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Post by Babun Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:06 pm

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I am a centrist.
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Post by Warrior Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:57 pm

To be a centrist master you must have all scores between 40-60 anyone else is a disruption in the Tao

Only your perfect balance on diplomacy prevents me from calling you a communist :coffee:
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