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Post by futbol_bill Fri Jun 30, 2023 2:32 pm

The discussion wasn’t who is better Mbappe or Vinicius! It was how will they play together! Sports insisting that Mbappe will come with a demand to play LW where Vinicius is the incumbent! He says Vinicius will have to play elsewhere!

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Post by Myesyats Fri Jun 30, 2023 3:02 pm

sportsczy wrote:Vini can't even reach Mbappe's (or Haaland's or Neymar's or etc.) socks.  He's a product of Madrid overhype.  Just like Ansu Fati at Barca, Rashford at Man U, etc.   It's a forcing exercise.

I was refering to this.

On them co-existing in the same team I'm of a similar opinion to Sportsczy. Mbappe is better and therefore he should plays where he's most comfortable, which seems at LW.

Vini is good but Mbappe is more established as a 'superstar', I think he will request to be played where he wants to play and that's within his right given his quality
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Post by futbol_bill Fri Jun 30, 2023 4:22 pm

Myesyats wrote:
sportsczy wrote:Vini can't even reach Mbappe's (or Haaland's or Neymar's or etc.) socks.  He's a product of Madrid overhype.  Just like Ansu Fati at Barca, Rashford at Man U, etc.   It's a forcing exercise.

I was refering to this.

On them co-existing in the same team I'm of a similar opinion to Sportsczy. Mbappe is better and therefore he should plays where he's most comfortable, which seems at LW.

Vini is good but Mbappe is more established as a 'superstar', I think he will request to be played where he wants to play and that's within his right given his quality


Flo has a reputation of acquiring star players without any consideration as to where they might play nor what team needs and as a result players play out of their position.

If Mbappe does sign, it puts team in situation where all three starters prefer to play LW or at least drift to left side. Mbappe has played well at all three forward positions. Rodrygo has played RW and false 9, but tends to drift to left no matter where he plays. With Vinicius, the few times he has played on right he was horrible.

Some people think when we are talking balance we are talking about defensive responsibilities! Rodrygo does play defensive when required and Vinicius has played some, a lot more than Sports acknowledges, but still his main focus to on offensive. It has been stated that Mbappe doesn’t play defense at all. I say stated as I haven’t seen enough to know otherwise.

But in this situation I am referring to Left side concentration versus practically nothing on the Right. That would leave offense to be too predictable. It’s also the reason, I would prefer the team to sign a RW (other than Brahim) and have Rodrygo as a sub for all three forward positions.

The other alternative would be to sell Vinicius! Makes a lot of sense! Sell the likely 3rd or 4th ranked offensive player to accommodate the 2nd ranked!
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Post by Valkyrja Sat Jul 01, 2023 8:43 am

Mbappe will come and it’s a good thing he knows already how to play second fiddle because the main guy will be Vini Jr. He’ll be the Eto’o to Vini’s Dinho
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Post by futbol_bill Sun Jul 02, 2023 12:57 am

@Turok, suggest you read some posts before making statements about my preferences! You aren’t saying anything different than me.

Joselu is similar to what Salgado was. Late in his career (he is 33) he is finding his niche on a relegated team and as a late sub for NT. He was picked up, ON LOAN, as a cheaper alternative and very much better than Mariano as a BACKUP CF. He wasn’t given #9 as that is reserved for whoever ends up being the CF. Perez is obviously waiting to see how the Mbappe soap opera plays out in terms of this year. And if doesn’t happen in July, he will still have the month of August to buy a CF! I don’t like it anymore than you, but it is what it is!
And also Joselu is not a true Spaniard, he was born in Germany!!
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Post by futbol_bill Sun Jul 02, 2023 3:11 pm

Article today Marca saying Mbappe wants 240M in HIS pocket if he is to move this summer! That is he doesn’t want to lose a penny to leave PSG. That would be 240M plus whatever PSG would demand.

If this story is true, then it’s high time, Flo tells this little greedy x*!? to look elsewhere. There is no way any other club will or could pay that! As I said earlier I believe Mbappe needs Flo far more than club needs him. Let the little prick realize the only clubs that will pay him that amount are his current team and possibly ManU if and when an oil state completes purchase. If Flo meets this demand, he is putting RMad in same position that Barca got in by giving into to Messi’s demands. No single player can be paid such a huge portion of salary budget and survive.

So Flo should reject the option for now, get the best possible CF available now and then see what need is and cost in another year.

This annual soap opera is becoming boring. He is just creating drama for his constant ongoing renewals. And sports said at one time, he wasn’t it for the money!

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
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Post by Perucho21 Wed Jul 05, 2023 2:22 pm

Marca sucks now Bill. Same publication that said Benz was staying before he announced his departure. They are tier negative 1 million.

According to Cortegana (tier 1) we are going to sign the Turkish wonderkid Arda Guler. It seems we are paying a little over 20 million. This eliminates any negative talk about Perez's communication with that random fan when he said "no more signings" he's just covering his bases and moving in silence.

As for Guler, we are signing him for his potential, but I dont see as part of the squad next season. He will likely be loaned out continously like we did with Odegaard
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Post by futbol_bill Wed Jul 05, 2023 6:22 pm

Perucho, Apparently Flo uped the offer when Barca and others got involved. He is said to be with first team for preseason and then it’s either loan him out or perhaps staying with first team. Note he is 2 or 3 years old than Odegaard was and although he is an AM, he has played most of his games at RW. Given we only have 4 forwards on squad at this point plus possibly Valverde, he could stay with team if he impresses.

Original thought was to play at Castilla, but that fizzled out when Castilla lost that final promotion game.

I don’t agree with you about Marca. That story about Benz was actually Benz himself saying that! That last story about Mbappe turned out to be correct, as Sports has confirmed. For sure Marca and others are getting carried away about Mbappe coming and no doubt there is interest by Flo, but that is what all sports media do. Best to treat it as possibilities. My own view is nothing will happen this year and thus I want Perez to get us a starting striker like Kane. This whole drama will start again sometime in 2024! My view is, he won’t be compatible with Vinicius and he likely will resign with PSG after much drama. So getting someone like Kane at his age, could allow the arrival and development of Endick to work.
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Post by titosantill Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:34 pm

I saw a post comparing joselu to Salgado. I'm hoping it's a typo and that bill meant soldado instead. He was no cafu or prime dani alves, but I really liked salgado as a footballer.
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Post by futbol_bill Wed Jul 05, 2023 11:16 pm

titosantill wrote:I saw a post comparing joselu to Salgado. I'm hoping it's a typo and that bill meant soldado instead. He was no cafu or prime dani alves, but I really liked salgado as a footballer.


Oops sorry Tito. I do have problems with names! Yes I meant Soldado. Same position, same age scoring goals for Nt, etc! I don’t have anything against Soldado nor Joselu, they both are good useful BACKUP CF.
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Post by sportsczy Wed Jul 05, 2023 11:38 pm

It's going to get interesting with Mbappe.  FYI...  Neymar's transfer fee was 222 million.  PSG want 240 million for Mbappe.  I know there's only 1 year left.  But Madrid need to get over that.  The way transfer fees are going, it won't seem outrageous in 3 years. I mean you have defenders and goalkeepers getting 100 million transfer fees. Declan Rice just got 120 million fee loool.

There's an opportunity here.   Madrid needs to take it.  Players like Haaland and Mbappe don't grow on trees.  If you can get one, you bite the bullet and pay.
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Post by Perucho21 Thu Jul 06, 2023 12:11 am

Things are on the up now

We will pay the fee whatever psg is asking for at this point. We will get our franchise player and our squad will be set for the next decade. Although next season I expect movements for RB and CB
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Post by Perucho21 Thu Jul 06, 2023 12:25 am

Pedrelol is going on a rant, giving details about the mbappe transfer.

July 31st is the end date, but the club expects to officially bid for Mbappe ASAP. We have 200m at the ready. Not sure if that'll be enough at first.
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Post by Cyborg Thu Jul 06, 2023 12:43 am

442 Diamond

Vini Jr Rodrygo
Brahim
Bellingham Valverde
Camavinga
Fran Garcia Alaba Militao Carvajal
Courtois

Do you think Ancelotti will use something like this.

This seems to suit the currents players, those recently brought in and those to come.

If Mbappe comes, he can slot into the Rodrygo space, with Rodrygo moving to the number 10 position.
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Post by sportsczy Thu Jul 06, 2023 1:33 am

No chance.  For one, Brahim isn't that good.  Second, Valverde was much better as a right winger than a CM as his biggest attribute is to just run into space (with or without the ball) and his shot... no CM ability whatsoever imo.

I think we go mostly like this:

Courtois
Carvajal - Militao - Rudiger/Alaba - Camavinga/Alaba
Tchou/Kroos
Bellingham - Kroos/Modric
Valverde - Rodrygo - Vini

If Mbappe comes, Vini will have to move to the right or go central.  We're not spending 240 mil euros to play him out of position.
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Post by futbol_bill Thu Jul 06, 2023 2:04 am

Neither Alaba nor Camavinga want to play LB. Carlo will go with Mendy and replace him with Fran. I think (or hope) both Modric and Kroos play more a sub role with mF being Bellingham - Tchou - Camavinga and forwards will be Rodrygo - Joselu - Vinicius. Joselu gets replaced by Mbappe IF he comes or other CF Flo will sign if Mbappe deal doesn’t happen.

I love the way you keep putting Vini down. We will see if he has the demand you keep insisting on.

I am also amused that you like to spend others money! You imply just because some owners are rich, they will spend big on their hobby. All of the teams, you mentioned as in contention for Mbappe, don’t have the additional capital you think owners will put forward. Plus there are new FFP rules in EPL this year that several teams are already concerned about. And as for Madrid, who is going to give Mbappe the additional 70M he is asking for! His demand as I understand it went from 70 to 140 if he was to go this year! I think there will be a contract issue aka Neymar, if he leaves and PSG won’t pay him. Also i believe Flo has leverage re price PSG is asking, in that I don’t believe EPL teams will pay what PSG is demanding.
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Post by sportsczy Thu Jul 06, 2023 2:15 am

Man City?  Sure.  They've spent billions and are on the edge of FFP.  Man U?  Maybe.  Although they haven't spent much in past 2 years.   Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool?  They're free.  Have all the room.  Have underspent for years and can go in deficit while having 2 years to catch up if they want.

And keep in mind the massive (and I mean massive) EPL media contract.  Each club is guaranteed over 100 million next season.  City is expected to have made 250 million this past year after winning the league.   It's a bit insane.

The big thing is that, despite spending so much on Mbappe, PSG is not in deficit on Mbappe.  The image rights and revenue they generate from him are massive... as was Messi.  Neymar too until recently.   Clubs lose money on spending big for non-marketable players.  PSG got in trouble for guys like Draxler, Verrati and Icardi... not Mbappe, Messi or Neymar.
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Post by futbol_bill Thu Jul 06, 2023 2:06 pm

Liverpool has backed out of several possible deals due to costs, Arsenal has already spent bigger than they ever have. You may have a case with regards to Chelsea, but they were horrible last year, out of Europe competitions and into a complete rebuild with a very questionable coach!

So I don’t believe there is any competition for Perez and therefore he can play hardball with PSG regarding asking price.

Can you clarify for me what has been agreed with Mbappe and Perez re salary, bonus, image rights etc? I thought it was 70M and then the 140M price tag came out. I don’t believe the extra 70 was on the table and sounds like PSG don’t intend to pay that?
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Post by Cyborg Thu Jul 06, 2023 5:30 pm

sportsczy wrote:No chance.  For one, Brahim isn't that good.  Second, Valverde was much better as a right winger than a CM as his biggest attribute is to just run into space (with or without the ball) and his shot... no CM ability whatsoever imo.

I think we go mostly like this:

Courtois
Carvajal - Militao - Rudiger/Alaba - Camavinga/Alaba
Tchou/Kroos
Bellingham - Kroos/Modric
Valverde - Rodrygo - Vini

If Mbappe comes, Vini will have to move to the right or go central.  We're not spending 240 mil euros to play him out of position.


Dude. Pick a starting 11.

You have the full squad in that lineup

For me. Valverde should start in the middle. Wasted on the right.
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Post by Myesyats Thu Jul 06, 2023 5:43 pm

Perucho21 wrote:Pedrelol is going on a rant, giving details about the mbappe transfer.

July 31st is the end date, but the club expects to officially bid for Mbappe ASAP. We have 200m at the ready. Not sure if that'll be enough at first.

200m seems like just the start. This transfer will end up costing insanse amounts probably

Oil money is ruining football !
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Post by sportsczy Thu Jul 06, 2023 6:18 pm

PSG sent an awful 3 page letter to Mbappe on July 3rd... very aggressive and offensive frankly. Apparently done by orders of the Emir of Qatar. All news outlets in France confirming this letter.

The marriage is over. Mbappe is 100% leaving this summer. Likely to Real Madrid.

Welcome to Madrid Kylian (yes, there are reports that Madrid has already offered 200 million).
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Post by futbol_bill Thu Jul 06, 2023 8:13 pm

I don’t know why Flo or Mbappe have to play ball with PSG! First off, I believe it is Madrid only in possible destination and secondly, Mbappe is just honoring his contract. They can’t force him out, look how difficult it has been with unwanted players; Bale, Mariano, Umtiti! And Madrid can easily offer say 150M and likely noone else will meet that! And Mbappe can easily say i have a contract and won’t go unless you buy out contract.

I do believe he will go to Madrid now, but it should be Flo dictating the cost, terms etc. they, both Flo and Mbappe have the leverage not PSG.

So after all is done, I’m still left wondering how Mbappe and Vinicius will play together. If it was me, I would go with 2 forwards, that way which side, doesn’t matter as much and play 4 midfielders.

Sports, you haven’t answer my question re meeting Mbappe’s demand for 140M?
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Post by sportsczy Thu Jul 06, 2023 8:31 pm

Just to put it all in place:
1-  PSG owes a "loyalty bonus" of €90 million to Mbappe this season, €40 million of which needs to be paid by the end of July.  I believe they can negotiate a one-time payment of roughly €60-70 million if they paid it all upfront.
2-  Mbappe makes €60 million in gross wages a year at PSG.   That's CR's wage at Real Madrid his last year.   I think a wage between €50- 60 million OR some image right concession in lieu of wages.  
3-  Mbappe would get €100 million signing bonus at least if he just played his contract out at PSG.  He will ask to be compensated for this.  Again, taking into account the NPV of money in a high inflation rate environment, he would likely take €60-70 million payout.

Madrid will need likely to pay €250-300 million in fees + €60 million in gross wages a year to get Mbappe this summer.  It's a lot.  PSG is to blame... they didn't have to give Mbappe such a crazy contract that's unsellable.  I don't blame Mbappe one bit for taking it.  

The solution is to pay the money that PSG needs... and then figure out an upfront payment + deferred payment plan + image rights package with Mbappe to get to his €200-250 million.  I think it's doable.  Madrid and Mbappe are the most marketable club and player in the world right now...  there are revenue buckets to work without having to outlay all of it in cash upfront.

This is likely the richest contract that Mbappe will ever sign in his career since he's 24 and given the level at which he plays. Assuming this is a 5 year deal, his next contract is at the age of 29. So he's going to maximize this contract as much as possible. Keep this in mind.
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Post by sportsczy Thu Jul 06, 2023 8:39 pm

And kudos to Madrid for not being like PSG... this club honors contracts. We've had Bale, Hazard, Mariano, etc. that were basically free loaders but the club NEVER smeared the players for simply honoring their contract despite some lack of professionalism. Mbappe is not even a free loader... he is a pro, plays all the time and delivers tremendously. Yet PSG are smearing him left and right to pressure a decision.

Disgraceful.
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Post by futbol_bill Thu Jul 06, 2023 8:47 pm

If Mbappe is confirmed here’s what squad is shaping up as;

Forwards: Mbappe, Vinicius, Rodrygo, Joselu, Brahim, Güler (if he impress as a RW option).

Midfielders: Bellingham, Tchouameni, Camavinga, Modric, Kroos, Valverde, Ceballos

Defense: Militao, Alaba, Rudiger, Nacho, Carvajal, Mendy, Fran, Lucas

Goal: Courtois, Soria

Still to be loaned or sold: Lunin, Odriozola and Vallejo.

That’s an ideal squad size of 23, 24 if you count practice portero. They could add a couple of kids, but I think it is better to call them when needed from Castilla. I.e. try to stack Castilla to try to get promoted.

Next year we need improvement at fullbacks, with Davies already being mentioned for LB. There has been some talk about maybe this year but I doubt it. I think with his speed plus Camavinga as left CB, plus Vinicius and Mbappe that left side will be extremely dangerous.
Right side will be our weakness, but maybe Güler and a better RB can fix that.


I think this sets squad for a number of years with likely retirement of Kroos, Modric, Lucas in a year and Nacho, Carvajal in two years. Only other in near future would be Alaba.

Incoming will be Davies, a RB, maybe 2 and Endick.


Last edited by futbol_bill on Fri Jul 07, 2023 3:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by futbol_bill Thu Jul 06, 2023 9:00 pm

sportsczy wrote:And kudos to Madrid for not being like PSG... this club honors contracts. We've had Bale, Hazard, Mariano, etc. that were basically free loaders but the club NEVER smeared the players for simply honoring their contract despite some lack of professionalism. Mbappe is not even a free loader... he is a pro, plays all the time and delivers tremendously. Yet PSG are smearing him left and right to pressure a decision.

Disgraceful.


Lol Sports, does this mean you are off the PSG bandwagon and back with RMad! If so welcome back.

Re costs, yes I believe club can afford to satisfy Mbappe, but I still feel they can play hardball with PSG. I would like them to offer 150, that’s still top of market and hardball negotiations to keep it under 200. All this in line with budgets capabilities. It’s getting beyond 200 that concerns me (that plus how do Vinicius and Mbappe play together).

And re PSG, they came into futbol throwing money like crazy, IMO breaking all sorts of financial rules, getting a chair seat of FFS at UEFA through corruption with Cerafin and insisting players fulfill their contracts. and essentially accomplishing nothing even with what was proclaimed as a dream lineup. To now force out a player who gave up a lot for career to stay with home team is extremely hypocritical!
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