Quique Setien sack watch, soon former new barca coach

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Post by futbol on Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:54 pm

You can say "rather lose in style than win ugly" only because you support a team that hasn't gone 2 seasons in a row without a major trophy in more than 10 years. Let's not win a single thing for 2 years in a row and you'll ask for Mourinho and a double pivot to secure the defense and "change things up from this past it style".

Also attractive is very subjective. You wouldn't even call it attractive if Barca were to all out attack but concede from stupid counters and long balls all the time and therefore win 0 trophies. Luis Enrique was HOUNDED out after 1 season in which he didn't win La Liga or the CL despite winning the treble and double prior and having an extremely entertaining team with MSN upfront. 2 losses to PSG and Juventus without La Liga and Barca "fans" trashed him.

Pep wouldn't be seen as entertaining either if every season of his went like this current season or his first one in the Premier League.

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Post by Myesyats on Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:03 pm

Enrique was criticised because he had the legendary MSN and it would be unforgivable to not win at least 2 trophies with that attack.

Obviously with Griezmann and Ansu Fati the expectations are lower.
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Post by Myesyats on Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:57 pm

Setién: "My relationship with Messi, Piqué, Busquets? I'm sure it will be very good but everyone has to have their place."

thats what i wanted to hear. Finally maybe he's going to be a real manager and not a yes man who bends over and allows complacency
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Post by Cruijf on Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:14 pm

I’m not sure why there’s discussion about style. Yes Barca don’t play the most attractive football but I don’t think that would have gotten Valverde anywhere near the sack if not for the two CL collapses. Those are what lost him his job. And yes it would be unrealistic if the expectation was that Barca has to win the CL every year or the manager gets sacked, but that’s not it. The expectation is that you don’t choke away a 3 goal lead two years in a row. That’s perfectly reasonable and realistic, even with this Barca squad.
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Post by Casciavit on Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:48 pm

When Barca loses 4-2 but they played an asymmetrical 3-5-2 with two false 9s, had +65% possession, and had more triangles on their pass maps...

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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:03 pm

@Myesyats wrote:I personally don't really care about trophies, i'd be fine being a City fan these days enjoying great football week in week out even if they dont win CL or the leauge.

You say this because, as a Barça fan, you're waded in trophies to your ankles and people always want the things that they don't have.

That's why fans of very successful clubs such as yourself who have gotten used to winning at least one major trophy every year while playing unattractive football tend to have a softer spot for style than they do for trophies.

But just wait. Wait until you've gone two to three years without any silverware. You'll then be willing to trade champagne football for a bag of skittles if it meant you getting back to winning ways.

And in my case, it really doesn't matter how shitty we play, I'll always prioritize trophies over everything else. That's what survives the test of time. That's what matters, really.

Of course ideally I'd like to have both (style and trophies), but if I had to choose, I'd go for the latter every time.
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Post by halamadrid2 on Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:08 pm

And its not like he has them lining up like a Mou team. Barca still averages the most possession in the league and even Europe i think. Thought I'd read that somewhere

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:08 pm

Not really my team has never won a trophy in my life time and i completely agree with him.

What's the point in winning when you're completely bored and soulless the whole time? If all you care about is winning i genuinely question what you get from the sport to begin with.
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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:22 pm

Who says you can only seek the pleasure of watching beautiful football from your favorite team though? If your team is playing really shitty, you can always find amusement elsewhere.

When Pep's Barça was in its prime, I distinctly remember watching them more than Madrid just so I can enjoy their beautiful football being played. But I also still distinctly remember that a trophy would've made me very happy during those dark times when Barça was bitchslapping us at every turn.

If you're fan of football, you'll always find a team with attractive football almost every weekend to enjoy...but watching your team lift a major trophy after so many years of drought? That's a legendary feeling that not only takes time, but commitment from all parties invovled.
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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:25 pm

Now about Valverde.

The sack is justified, I don't think anybody is disputing that. But why now? That's the question.

He was first in the league and still had every chance to win it this year as well since he already won the previous two. The CL was his weakness, but keeping him would've at least guaranteed one major trophy. Then at the end of the season, you would have all the time in the world to let him go and find a better replacement.

By dismissing him now, not only have you destabilized the team needlessly, but his replacement also is not really that great (judging from his previous stints).

Waiting until the end of the season would've been the best solution, I think.
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Post by eelir on Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:30 pm

@Cruijf wrote:I’m not sure why there’s discussion about style. Yes Barca don’t play the most attractive football but I don’t think that would have gotten Valverde anywhere near the sack if not for the two CL collapses. Those are what lost him his job. And yes it would be unrealistic if the expectation was that Barca has to win the CL every year or the manager gets sacked, but that’s not it. The expectation is that you don’t choke away a 3 goal lead two years in a row. That’s perfectly reasonable and realistic, even with this Barca squad.


This + loss of style; he should have been kicked out 6 months ago. I stopped watching this season because many times I was under impression the other teams were Barca. I know VV is not the only one to blame, but it is a step in right direction. We splashed a lot of money, and people complain we do not have players for certain game. Why did we not buy players for that then? Beside Arthur and DeJong no one even tried to bring in such players. Only looking for flashy names all the time.

VV was a coach in his third season, he should have gotten the Barca style going as he promised! What we got under him is two humiliations of giant proportions in CHL and Barca that does not play as Barca.

And for those who mumble about pre-Ronaldinho Barca I tell them to f...-off. Should we now settle for mediocrity?
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Post by danyjr on Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:54 pm

@The Demon of Carthage wrote:The sack is justified, I don't think anybody is disputing that. But why now? That's the question.
I don't think anyone other than Woodward makes poorer footballing decisions compared to the Barcelona board.
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Post by Myesyats on Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:14 pm

@The Demon of Carthage wrote:Who says you can only seek the pleasure of watching beautiful football from your favorite team though? If your team is playing really shitty, you can always find amusement elsewhere.

I try dude, but I just don't feel that special connection with any other club. Apart from CL knockout games, don't really give a shit about any other team and thus not enjoy non-Barca games as much.

And I don't think sacking Valverde is destabilizing the team, IMO keeping him for longer would have just dug the grave deeper with no prospect of improvement.

Before the sack, today and tomorrow would have been "days off" for the players meanwhile Setien called for training sessions every single day so far which is already an improvement.
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Post by halamadrid2 on Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:02 pm

You also have to remember that Valverde did it because the players wanted. Just because Setien starts overworking these guys does not mean they'll start playing better. He may lose the dressingroom when he tries becoming an autocrat. Our players used to have it chilled with Carlo. Benitez came in and tried to throw his weight about with training and performance analyses. Needless, to say it took 2 months and Benitez lost the dressingroom

Setien is a nobody. If he isn't careful he'll lose the support of the older guys when that happens it's curtains for him. Valverde was a popular man amongst the senior players. Setien will start from a disadvantaged position already from the start
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Post by Myesyats on Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:07 pm

Setien is very respected among the senior players, Busquets even personally signed his shirt and gifted it to him after he beat Barca 3-4 at the Camp nou with Betis last season. Which doesnt happen often at home for Barca, a loss.

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Post by halamadrid2 on Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:20 pm

Admiration =/= respect

I am sure many players in the league have been awed by how entertaining his Las Palmas and Betis were but enough for them to want him in their own team? Doubt it or he wouldn't be out of a job for 7 months when countless of coaches have been sacked and hired since he was sacked

Like I said he'll need to be careful or it won't take long till his players lose their believes in him. Far too many question marks
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Post by Myesyats on Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:28 pm

I agree but I don't think the players want another embarrasment in CL. I hope they show some fight and dedication. I can't deal with this shit if I'm not positive
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Post by Doc on Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:21 am

The players don't want another CL embarrassment? I mean, it was their fault they were humiliated in the 2nd leg twice.
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Post by Myesyats on Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:17 am

Yeah so thats what i mean, they have no right to complain if they get training sessions everyday because they've been a failure. If they turn against the coach because of working too hard, then the whole squad needs a revamp and not the coach a sack.
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Post by Kebab on Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:50 pm

Nearly 90% of barca fans celebrate it as if they won CL. Reality is that nothing will change and this guy will not make barca better. From his first training session he behaves like a nerd. I think in 2 months messi will like M.City on instagram, and this guy will be fired

Valverde was a great coach, his loses to Roma and Liverpool was not his fault. Problem was that Barca style never worked against such teams. even Pep's barca got lucky against Chelsea.and that was prime barca with young legs. Valverde did a good job with this old barca
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Post by Myesyats on Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:04 pm

Our brain is wired to remember mostly the good parts and thats why people always want to get back with their ex because they reminisce about the loving moments and not the moments that made you break up.

We are not going to miss Valverde at all.

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Post by Harmonica on Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:52 pm

Just read that Setien has played chess against Kasparov and Kramnik, welcome. :bow:
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Post by Kebab on Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:34 pm

Messi against Quique Setien when he was Betis manager

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Post by danyjr on Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:47 pm

Spanish Maurizio Sarri.

Actually no, worse. Spanish Marco Giampaolo Laughing
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Post by Doc on Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:51 pm

Instead of chess, probably needed to get his team more focus against Valencia.
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Post by danyjr on Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:57 pm

@Doc wrote:Instead of chess, probably needed to get his team more focus against Valencia.

FourFourTwo wrote:The experienced manager is a big admirer of chess and is understood to have played against former world champions Anatoli Karpov and Garry Kasparov, although the results of these meetings have not been disclosed. The strategic style of chess can be linked to football and this is a view shared by Setien, who has long been a fan of the board game.
You can't make this stuff up rofl
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