Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

He was just as good as Kante in the WC on defense throughout the whole tournament.  But that's because France NT asks him to stay back and play the "Pirlo" role on the attack.  With Griezmann, Mbappe and Coman/Dembele/Lemar to go with Giroud... he's not needed in the final 1/3rd other than opportunistically.

The issue at Man U is that he has to create in the final 3rd (they have no other creators), score some (they have no striker you can count on for 20+ goals) AND defend.  It was too much.  Matic was awful so he couldn't cover him. Herrera was injured too often to really get into a groove. Then you had the wonderful fullback pairing of Valencia/Young. That team is just built like shit.

As long as he plays EITHER B2B or deeper CM, he can defend great.  If you ask him to become a CAM, then his defense suffers.

Even Vieira, who was an incredible defender, didn't attack anywhere near as much as Pogba was asked to.  They didn't need him to.  You had Henry, Pires, Ljundberg, etc on the attack.

That's why he wants to leave Man U.  He asked to do too much. At Madrid, you have Casemiro to cover behind him (like Kante does at France NT). He'll shine. Especially if Ferland Mendy is the fullback on the left and Hazard is in front of him. He doesn't need to try and overdo it.

So you’re saying he replaces Kroos?

If so, that’s a hard sell.

It’s the other side (Modric, Valverde, Isco) that is spot that more desperately needs a replacement.

He plays on the right with France NT.  That's not the problem.  I just think he would fit FAR better with Hazard who likes to link up...  Kroos isn't a CM that can play linkup.  Issue with Hazard is that Kroos doesn't really support him on the attack.  It's left to Marcelo to support Hazard and I don't like the balance that creates with Kroos having to play defensive cover.

I'd move Kroos to the right.  He played there some with Bayern.

So the reason for Hazard's poor performances so far is Kroos

Come on. That's not right.

I get the argument. But Kroos isn't the reason. Hazard needs to adapt faster.

Tbh Hazard is the one who abandons his position and leaves our LB all on his own. Yes Kroos isn't your typical B2B but I've yet to see him anywhere but the left side of the field. If Hazard wasn't so unfit he'd probably adapt faster but the poor guy runs probably 5km a game

a bit funny how Hazard talks about wanting to play for madrid all his life and then shows up overweight in training. then we hear about how it's ok, he does it all the time, and even his NT manager says he can still deliver while unfit, etc... well he hasnt and he needs to pick it up.

So Hakimi plays as a winger these days. Yh, he is deffo getting sold in the sunmer. Plays LB for Morocco and LW for Dortmund. We already have Mendy and Reguillon for the LB spot and we aren't in need of a LW these days especially not a a defender converted into a winger.

sportsczy wrote:He plays on the right with France NT.  That's not the problem.  I just think he would fit FAR better with Hazard who likes to link up...  Kroos isn't a CM that can play linkup.  Issue with Hazard is that Kroos doesn't really support him on the attack.  It's left to Marcelo to support Hazard and I don't like the balance that creates with Kroos having to play defensive cover.

I'd move Kroos to the right.  He played there some with Bayern.

Typical excuse before these guys join the club, their better than everyone on the current team, when that not the case it's one of the scapegoat faults, hazard decision making is bad and slow, still looks out of shape that on him nothing to do with kroos, if hazard wants to do more combination play then stop running head down into the ground  not like he gonna cross it.

I am recalling the seemly constant criticism leveled at Perez for his pursuit of youth talent.

It’s kind of ironic that the most expensive of these purchases, Vinicius, Rodrygo and Odegaard are now starting to look like the promises they appeared to be, yet the critics constantly put them off. In addition several of the other youth are also developing into solid pros. Whether or not they develop into Madrid players or not, they will easily recoup their investment values.

I find it real interesting to look back at the posts from these critics vs the actual results of Flo’s investments!

Bill... do you really want me to do an accounting on this? Hint: You don't.

No, go ahead and be sure to include your past posts.

Ferland Mendy 53,0
Eder Militao 50,0
Rodrygo 45,0
Vinicius 45,0
Kovacic 38,0
Odriozola 30,0
Theo Hernandez 27,4
Dani Ceballos 18,8
Brahim Diaz 15,5
Odegaard 4,0

That;s 326,7 million euros.  The only guy that's a bonafide good La Liga player is Odegaard... and he was the cheapest.  All the other are nothing more than prospects or failures.  Other than Odegaard, Rodrygo is the only other one that has potential to be a regular at RM with Mendy.  Vini won't get there.  The Mendy risk, i understand because Marcelo is getting older and there are no WC Lbs that you can buy period. And he had already proven his quality at Lyon.

So let me ask you this, do you know what we could have bought for 275 mil euros?   Bonafide WC players.  No uncertainty.

There is a lot missing in your "accounting".

Youth players purchased:
Odegaard 3M
Kovacic 38M
Vinicius 45M
Asensio 3M
Ceballos 16.5M
Vallejo 5M
Theo 24M
Rodrygo 45M
Lunin 17M
Kubo ZERO
Odriozola 30M
Brahim 17M
Mendy 53M
Militao 50M
Jovic 60M

Of these the club has only given up on Theo and Kovacic thus far. They sold them for 20M (a 4M loss) and 45M (a 7M gain), thus a 3M gain.  Of all the others, it is way too soon to say they won't be bonafide La liga players. But unlike you I appreciate what is showing thus far with Odegaard, Rodrygo, Vinicius, Mendy and Militao plus the home grown Valverde. All of them will either make it or they will be sold off with a net gain. Of the others the only ones who, at this point won't be sold (if it comes to that) with a net gain is Lunin and Odriozola. so if your accounting looked at it as Investments (in youth), you would realize it has been sound investments and the likelyhood, despite what you say, is some of these will MAKE it with club.

And your accounting is ignoring the in house development which has almost no acquisition costs.

Developed and sold (in past 3 years)
M. Llorente 30M
D Llorente 7M
De Tomas 21M
Mascarell 10M (1.5M net)
Torro 3.5M (1.75M net)
Burgui 3M

and that doesn't include players still out on loans, who all will fetch net gains if they are eventually sold, again if they don't make it with Club.

Achraf, Reguilion, Mayoral, Sanchez, Oscar.

You have been extremely critical of Flo's strategy, yet with your financial background, you shouldn't be able to  deny the soundness of this youth investment strategy. And one thing you constantly ignore is that with any sound investment strategy, you have to allow for time and patience. You can't deny that Flo will recoup all of his investments dollars and at end of day, it is a net gain. That is without the gain from marketing, team performance etc for the ones that do make it.

Your whole criticism is regarding Flo's hesitation of purchasing established pros. That to me is a separate discussion.  I would agree with you if his only acquisitions were youth promises. Granted there were 2 years were he definitely should have done more, but most that was based on his and Zidane's assumption that the current team, at that time was good enough!

It's not about who we didn't "give up" on.  Unless you're talking about a Neymar or Messi level talent OR guys that have already proven it in top leagues (Militao, Mendy, Kova and Jovic)... It's insane to spend 15 million on nobodies.

Of all these guys, how many do you think are actually going to be regulars at Real Madrid?  Odegaard, who was cheap, is the only unproven kid who has a legit argument.  Rodrygo is getting a chance this year until we sign Mbappe... and then that's over.

The other guys who could?  Proven young players... not unproven kids.  Namely, Militao and Mendy.

That's it.  You spent 400-500 million on Mendy, Militao and Odegaard.  All you can hope with the rest is backup time or recoup your cost on resell.

And please don't include castilla players.  They're not part of the argument you're making. We're talking about kids in diapers that Flo bought from other clubs.

And it's not sound investment strategy... how is it sound?  With such risk, you expect a 20% IRR minimum.  So if you're investing 500 million and you wait 5 years to either sell or play, you need to make 20% return annually that compounds... so 1,3 billion or thereabouts if you were to sell them all in 5 years.

It's a shit financial strategy.  Flo just wants to get a rep as a "football man".  It has nothing to do with investment strategy.

in a market where star players and some talents are costing upward of 100 millions euros, and that includes fraudulent wannabes like Coutinho and Dembele, it's always a very sound strategy to invest in young talent for a lot less money and to bet on their potential.

One obvious reason is probability: if you sign a lot of young high level talent, you will strike gold on a couple. you spread the money around as opposed to gambling on a single player when it comes to young players.

I always said it is a good strategy and i maintain that point of view, specially when we had a mature squad in many ways. You can't afford to sign players upwards of 100 millions who are gamble.

When we spend 200+ millions on Mbappe, there will be no fear because he is a sure thing. And at the same time, that youth investment will pay off in the way we are seeing other players like Odegaard, Achraf etc... grow and show a level they can have a career as 1st team players for us.

The others that we struck out on, high resale value still, and we will recoup 80-90% of what we spent on them if not more.

You don’t see a possibility of a future team of

Vinicius (Asensio) Mbappe (Jovic) Rodrygo (Brahim)

Kroos  (De Beek)  Casemiro (Valverde) Odegaard (Isco)

Mendy (Reguilion) Militao Varane Carvajal (Achraf)?

All may not remain and I’m not saying Mbappe and De Beek would be the only new signings, but the rest are definite possibilities.

Look it’s a strategy and with any such strategy, you can’t expect all of them to work out. But you also need patience and time, something you obviously ignore.

As to the exclusion of Castilla, no way. It is a development part of club and plays a big part of staffing the big club as well as every once in a while generates  legit prospects, plus it actually makes money.

And lol on you for trying to put a ROI on just 2 outright sales out of 15 in past past three years. I’m equally sure that those that will eventually be sold will easily reach that 20% ROI you mentioned.

I actually feel, you should exclude Jovic, Mendy and Militao and Kovacic from this accounting as they were more or less established before they came here. And their price tags are higher primarily because of this new escalated market you keep talking about.

If you ignore these 4, the only price tags, you are objecting to are Vinicius, Rodrygo and Odriozola. Two of them are already valued at more than was paid for and definite possibilities of Making it. Odriozola is the only one who hasn’t proven his purchase price. Plus you have Odegaard (who you have continually put down) and Kubo as definitively possibilities who were purchased for virtually nothing.

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