From all evidence we have most Spanish players who become long term captains in Madrid start weilds great considerable power and it does not end well usually

cos we usually go by seniority, which is understandable, and since its a spanish club, its no coincidence the most senior players will be spanish. but that's not what causes the problem

@doc that sounds like something toshack would have said. don't know if he did, but i could see him saying that. he was a very 'keep it real' type of coach.

It does feel more like a Toshak thing to say so we'll go with Toshak. Point is, Madrid does give their captains a bit too much leeway. Yes, he should have some say but the way Ramos talks (or Raul in his time), you'll swear they were helping Bernabeu sort through the rubble of the old stadium post Spanish Civil War. Or sorting out with financial policy would keep the club afloat while being able to sign players, negotiate sponsorship and ticket prices.

What I am saying is that I kinda side with Flo here. Does this team need Neymar, Mbappe, Griezmann, Icardi to beat Eibar, Ajax, CSKA, etc.?

If we're going to get technical then I'd argue that Florentino is responsible for most, if not all, the problems we're having right now.

The team created many chances against Barcelona and a fair amount against Ajax, but we simply weren't clinical enough. The strikers he's providing his manager with weren't good enough to get the job done.

He's delusional if he thinks he can win any silverware with that front three.

Also, Solari didn't appoint himself. Florentino did.

At some point he has to take responsibility for the bad decisions he's made.

Fully behind Ramos on this one. Being the president shouldn't and doesn't allow you to run the club into the ground. If you're not as ambitious as before or feel you can't keep up with the other clubs, then step aside and let someone else try.

The Demon of Carthage wrote:If we're going to get technical then I'd argue that Florentino is responsible for most, if not all, the problems we're having right now.

The team created many chances against Barcelona and a fair amount against Ajax, but we simply weren't clinical enough. The strikers he's providing his manager with weren't good enough to get the job done.

He's delusional if he thinks he can win any silverware with that front three.

Also, Solari didn't appoint himself. Florentino did.

At some point he has to take responsibility for the bad decisions he's made.

Fully behind Ramos on this one. Being the president shouldn't and doesn't allow you to run the club into the ground. If you're not as ambitious as before or feel you can't keep up with the other clubs, then step aside and let someone else try.

Florentino Perez made the wrong decision. But saying he was delusional is something i dont agree with. Look at it like this, Ronaldo was sold and Perez had 2 options, buy a player to replace him or hedge your bets on players on the current squad who can play LW. He decided on the latter but it didnt work out. Thats just how business goes. He made a decision and it was the wrong one. All im saying is i personally believe it was a REASONABLE decision to make. Isco was playing on the left with Spain with good results coming and Asensio who also had played well, and you had a potential future top player in Vinicius. I believe anyone would look at that and say "Okay, perhaps we do not need to shell out hundreds of millions for a top player when we have 3 who can fill the role" Now you look at the rest of the squad and even without Ronaldo you still had your top players that have brought championships in past 5 years (Modric, Ramos, Marcelo etc) and its completely understandable that you would place your bets on those same players. But as i said, it was the wrong decision. Delusional? No, but I guess the only delusional decision was trying to make Gareth Bale the main man when he never has and possibly never will be in Madrid.

According to Jugones, Zidane's return will be official tonight

God

Who stays & who goes?

My quick guess is:

Ceballos, Vallejo, Valverde, Brahim, Llorente, Bale are gone either on loan or sold.

FalcaoPunch wrote:Who stays & who goes?

My quick guess is:

Ceballos, Vallejo, Valverde, Brahim, Llorente, Bale are gone either on loan or sold.

Lol, that’s changing the bench strength only. How in the world can that be considered revamping this team.

If he is coming back to keep playing the over the hill starters, how will that improve team?

I think most of you are not reading Zidane correctly. He didn’t play Ceballos, Llorente, Vallejo, Hernandez, Achraf because they were unproven kids and as Sports said he wasn’t necessarily involved or agreement of their signings.

At this point, Ceballos, Llorente, Reguillon have shown they can play, so I think they are keepers, as backups. Also Vinicius will stay, but whether as starter depends on who is signed.

The rookie issues applies to Odriozola, Brahim, Valverde.

I agree Vallejo (and Bale) plus James are definitely out.

Biggest decisions for Zidane are who to get plus what to do with Isco, Asensio, Kroos, Modric and Marcelo.

futbol_bill wrote:

FalcaoPunch wrote:Who stays & who goes?

My quick guess is:

Ceballos, Vallejo, Valverde, Brahim, Llorente, Bale are gone either on loan or sold.

Lol, that’s changing the bench strength only. How in the world can that be considered revamping this team.

If he is coming back to keep playing the over the hill starters, how will that improve team?

Lol I never said that was considered “revamping” the team. That’s just my guess on the much easier choices.

I think we will see surprises.

I can see Vasquez, Bale, Nacho, Modric, Kroos, Vallejo all leaving. Navas as well probably

Militao, Hermoso, Kante, Hazard, a CF and a RW coming in. Lunin for GK

Nacho was his absolute best under ZZ, there was even talks of him being a first teamer. Not like this season. ZZ will get the best out of him again. Lucas is deffo staying, if Benz is ZZ' child, Lucas is his nephew

Vallejo is leaving 100%, don't think either Kroos or Modric will leave but if Juve go out today expect them to make a push for anyone with remotely a toe out the club, that could entice the guys who've won basically everything there is to win at club level

Bale will leave too if Bayern still want him or Utd

I am more interested in who could come in; Hazard for sure, but who could we get for the striker and RW positions. We need a deep bench to survive the whole season.

I think we are set ar the FB positions. We need a new CB, someone who can bench Varane. We need a new CM and let Modric move on and a whole new frontline

Hazard, Cavani, Jovic, RW, Hermoso, CM and we are set for next season. I think James should come back too. The more the merrier

I'm not so sure about James, hala. A couple days ago, Rummenigge said that he's confident he'll be playing at Bayern next season as well.

Remember, Bayern can veto any move for James, even from Madrid. They have that in the contract binding the three parties.

So, I don't really think James will ever come back. And now with Z at the helm, it's an even smaller chance for him to return.

Doc wrote:Not sure who it was, I'm thinking either Toshak or Juup once said Sanchis is the worst person he ever met and he was Captain supreme too. Hell, Sanchis' old man played for about ten years with the club too so you can imagine the ego on him. Madrid has a tendency of making the captain basically a high ranking board member which, I mean, it's fine until it isn't.

Don't think Jupp has a bad relationship with Sanchis at all

Maybe time has healed old wounds but I don't think that was him

I can almost guarantee no Hermoso, James, or Cavani. We are bringing in Militao so Hermoso doesn't make sense unless we sell both Vallejo AND Nacho. James left because he wasn't getting playing time under ZZ, now that ZZ is back, why would he suddenly get more playing time with Isco AND Hazard being here, not to mention Asensio? Cavani- Benz has stepped it up, we don't need another veteran striker, and obviously ZZ favors Benz.

vanDEEZ wrote:I can almost guarantee no Hermoso, James, or Cavani. We are bringing in Militao so Hermoso doesn't make sense unless we sell both Vallejo AND Nacho. James left because he wasn't getting playing time under ZZ, now that ZZ is back, why would he suddenly get more playing time with Isco AND Hazard being here, not to mention Asensio? Cavani- Benz has stepped it up, we don't need another veteran striker, and obviously ZZ favors Benz.

Deez - that hurts!! You mean Benz is starter, but no backup!!! If Zidane is coming back to play with same old, with Hazard in as the Ronaldo or Bale replacement, we are still in trouble. What I see posted here is mostly bench changes. We need at least another scorer!!!!

Hapless_Hans wrote:

Doc wrote:Not sure who it was, I'm thinking either Toshak or Juup once said Sanchis is the worst person he ever met and he was Captain supreme too. Hell, Sanchis' old man played for about ten years with the club too so you can imagine the ego on him. Madrid has a tendency of making the captain basically a high ranking board member which, I mean, it's fine until it isn't.

Don't think Jupp has a bad relationship with Sanchis at all

Maybe time has healed old wounds but I don't think that was him

It was Toshak:

https://books.google.co.za/books?id=SeA_AQAAQBAJ&pg=PA164&lpg=PA164&dq=sanchis+is+the+worst+person&source=bl&ots=5v1kO0vPNX&sig=ACfU3U1hfBxsiG6BdB770qTzlI9Ucr0otw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiIx9-Wu_3gAhUjQxUIHfQgA6IQ6AEwB3oECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=sanchis%20is%20the%20worst%20person&f=false

futbol_bill wrote:

vanDEEZ wrote:I can almost guarantee no Hermoso, James, or Cavani. We are bringing in Militao so Hermoso doesn't make sense unless we sell both Vallejo AND Nacho. James left because he wasn't getting playing time under ZZ, now that ZZ is back, why would he suddenly get more playing time with Isco AND Hazard being here, not to mention Asensio? Cavani- Benz has stepped it up, we don't need another veteran striker, and obviously ZZ favors Benz.

Deez - that hurts!! You mean Benz is starter, but no backup!!! If Zidane is coming back to play with same old, with Hazard in as the Ronaldo or Bale replacement, we are still in trouble. What I see posted here is mostly bench changes. We need at least another scorer!!!!

I think we get a new striker. If ZZ is invested in the player he will play, and Benz will be backup. I just don't know who it will be. Could be Jovic, Martial, Gabriel Jesus, Andre Silva, Werner, Maxi Gomez, Dybala, Santi Mina, Mousa Dembele it could be almost anyone outside of Kane, Mbappe, and the obvious ones we won't go for.

So almost certain ST will be changed and Benz will be rotated, Bale will be replaced (though I don't know if we just get Hazard and have Vinicius/Rodrygo play RW), Modric will be replaced, then the rest will just be operational- if we can't hold on to Marcelo or Ramos then they will have to be replaced too but I think they stay.

Honestly I don't think there is much to do about the rotational players like some are claiming. Our depth is actually not horrible, apart from the forwards (which will be changed).

I guess I am in the middle of the spectrum on what I think ZZ will do. I disagree with those who feel we will only have bench players change and keep the exact team he left last summer, and I disagree with people who think we will basically blow up the team and start from scratch.

With Zidane I think we need to change 3 starting positions, and possibly add or rearrange 1-2 players to improve the depth.

Watching Ronaldo today and comparing his efforts at 35 to Bale's or Asensio's

We wont win shit until we bin lifeless players like them and to some extent Marcelo and Kroos

I still can't believe we lost 4-1 at home after coming in to the game with a 2-1 away lead. I am so jealous of all the other teams going through. We probably had one of the easiest draws and still failed.

I don't care how long these guys have served us we need to bin at least 1/3 of this team. Instead of pulling together these guys were bickering all season. Didn't help that they were coached by a petty teenage baby. The passion that Juve showed today I only saw from Benz, Reguillon and Ramos. Noone else. Starting with that lanky clown qe have in goal we need to have a garage sale

Hope ZZ cleans house and starts to build this team up brick by brick

Modric showed, for the very least, professionalism in the Ajax tie. He really tried...

Why are you comparing Ronaldo to Asensio or Bâle, Its a waste of time. They completely different category of players

I'm ready to sign up Jovic to be honest. I've been speaking with a friend who follows the bundesliga very closely and he just can't speak highly enough of Jovic. His words- "he can do it all, press, dribble, has a good eye for a pass, and most importantly is finishing like crazy."

Apparently Frankfurt have an option to buy for something silly like 5m? 7m? I cannot imagine them holding on if we offer somewhere between 40-60m especially if they don't make the CL spots.

I've only watched a bit of him, but from what I have seen he looks like the best available forward by a long shot.

Well they sre the ones we bet our future on when we sold Ronaldo

halamadrid2 wrote:Well they sre the ones we bet our future on when we sold Ronaldo

and that's why Florentino should have his head checked for brain damage.