The Zidane-Iniesta Parallel

There is a strange parallel between the international careers of Zinedine Zidane and Andres Iniesta. Consider this :-

World Cup 1998 - Zidane scores in the final and wins the trophy.
World Cup 2010 - Iniesta scores in the final and wins the trophy.

Euro 2000 - Zidane wins the trophy as player of the tournament.
Euro 2012 - Iniesta wins the trophy as player of the tournament.

World Cup 2002 - France (and Zidane) exit in the group stage
World Cup 2014 - Spain (and Iniesta) exit in the group stage

Euro 2004 - France (and Zidane) start off great but are beaten in the first knockout round
Euro 2016 - Spain (and Iniesta) start off great but are beaten in the first knockout round

World Cup 2006 - Zidane just fails to win the trophy but ends up as player of the tournament
World Cup 2018 - Can Iniesta do likewise? I wouldn't even dare to hope for that much but I definitely find this parallel interesting.

I don't think Iniesta will finish as player of the tournament to be honest. Anything is possible in football, but I can't see that one happening.

The Demon of Carthage wrote:I don't think Iniesta will finish as player of the tournament to be honest. Anything is possible in football, but I can't see that one happening.

Fair enough. I didn't so much bring this up to ask if it could happen. Mostly did it just to show this interesting parallel between their careers. You may recall that before world cup 2006 France and Zidane weren't given much of a chance either. The world couldn't think beyond Brazil and Ronaldinho at that time. What happened after that made football history though.

But France was the second most talented team in the 2006 tournament....  and Zidane only played for that NT the last 3 qualification games (and saved our ass since we were out before then).

They were given a good chance once Zidane came back... not before.

Barthez
Sagnol-Gallas-Thuram-Abidal
Vieira-Makele-Zidane
Ribery-Henry-Malouda

It was a crazy talented team.  We just had no creative midfielder (all DMs and B2Bs) until Zidane came back.

Iniesta plays nowhere the role that Zidane did for that France team. We were a complete headless chicken without him.

sportsczy wrote:But France was the second most talented team in the 2006 tournament....  and Zidane only played for that NT the last 3 qualification games (and saved our ass since we were out before then).

They were given a good chance once Zidane came back... not before.

Barthez
Sagnol-Gallas-Thuram-Abidal
Vieira-Makele-Zidane
Ribery-Henry-Malouda

It was a crazy talented team.  We just had no creative midfielder (all DMs and B2Bs) until Zidane came back.

Iniesta plays nowhere the role that Zidane did for that France team.  We were a complete headless chicken without him.

Second most talented team in the 2006 tournament? I remember clearly that before the tournament started no one saw it that way. France were no higher than #6 favorites before a ball had been kicked.

Yes I remember that Zidane saved the qualification for France.

It was a talented starting XI certainly but many of the players including Zidane were considered over the hill when the tournament started.

You make a very good point that there was no other central creative midfielder. The closest that anyone has come to doing that aspect of Zidane for France is probably Pirlo for Italy.

One of the yardsticks with which players are sometimes measured is the quality (or lack of) around them especially in similar positions and roles as them. There is a difference between being first among equals and head and shoulders above the rest.

That said Iniesta has been an immense part of whatever Spain has done in this era :-

Euro 2008 - Man of the match in the semi final and in the team of the tournament
WC 2010 - Man of the match in three matches including the final and in team of the tournament
Euro 2012 - Player of the tournament
Confed 2013 - Second best player of the tournament
Euro 2016 - Man of the match in the first two matches

That's not true dude.  France was seen as likely the only team that could compete with Brazil in terms of talent.  The question was whether they'd show up.... and if Zidane had enough left in the tank to lead them.  Domenech was a train wreck... so that created doubt too.  But NEVER the talent.

So you remember distinctly wrong.

We were the only other team that had WC players at every position.

Zidane was the best player in that WC.  Iniesta won't be.  In fact, as great as Iniesta is, he's not in the same category as Zidane.  It's a false comparison.  Zidane is the in the category of Maradonna, Pele, Platini, Messi, Ronaldo x 2, Cruyff, etc.  Iniesta is in the category just below that.  In fact, I rate Xavi higher than Iniesta tbh...  Zidane defined his era along with R9.  Messi and Ronaldo define the current era. There was a 3-4 year gap there and, imo, Ronaldinho was the king of that small gap in time.

I too also recall France not being the "2nd best squad" in 2006 so that makes it two guys who "remember distinctly wrong" I suppose.

Sports not only overhyping France currently but retroactively as well

Doc wrote:I too also recall France not being the "2nd best squad" in 2006 so that makes it two guys who "remember distinctly wrong" I suppose.

Argentine were the best team in 2006

Hapless_Hans wrote:

Doc wrote:I too also recall France not being the "2nd best squad" in 2006 so that makes it two guys who "remember distinctly wrong" I suppose.

Argentine were the best team in 2006

2002, not 2006

Doc wrote:I too also recall France not being the "2nd best squad" in 2006 so that makes it two guys who "remember distinctly wrong" I suppose.

2nd most talented team... not the 2nd best team.  Remember, we had Domenech as the manager.  That automatically dropped us.  And Zidane saved our arse in the qualifiers late.

We were the super talented maverick team that nobody knew what to expect from. Very much like a lot of Madrid teams... talent was never a question. Completely dysfunctional.

Again, totally do not recall anyone (of importance) saying France had the 2nd most talented squad in 2006 either. That seems like it was a French media opinion. I mean, France NT are usually full of talent, duh, it's France but I feel this is history revisionism a bit.

Barthez
Sagnol-Gallas-Thuram-Abidal
Vieira-Makele-Zidane
Ribery-Henry-Malouda

(Ribery was young while Barthez & Zidane were old; all the others were in their prime years or beasting regardless such as Thuram)

Bench:
Trezeguet
Alou Diarra
Sidney Govou
Sylvain Wiltord
Jean-Alain Boumsong
Louis Saha
etc.

I was member on french forums back in 2006, and no, France wasn't rated as possible winners that year. The guys started believing after the win over Spain i remember precisely.

Brazil was the favourite
Spain, Germany, Argentina and even England were seen as most credible challengers

France was not that super talented maverick team, proof being, it needed Zidane, Thuram and Makelele coming back of retirement to qualify.

That is definitely not the 2nd best talented team in 2006 Sports. Warrior's post actually is more realistic. I remember Spain were the favourites to beat France and after the beating France put on them (a section of Spain fans even resorted to monkey chants if I recall), it is when most commentators realised that France were a legit challenger.

Besides what Warrior wrote, you had butterfinger Barthez as your no. 1 goalie.

Thuram wasn't retired lol.  He was an absolute beast at club level.

Same with Makele... beasting with Chelsea.

They all (including Zidane) hated Domenech so much that they stopped playing for him.  But we were flopping and there was mutiny (precursor to 2010) and the LFP begged them to come back and stop a complete crisis. They came back the summer right before the WC to save us.

As soon as Zidane, Thuram and Makele came back, we were now a contender.

Never said we were favored.  But they were the 2nd most talented team in that tournament.  You guys can say whatever you want.  That's why all the NT fans were all both worried we'd flop... but also excited because we could win.  It just came down to whether Domenech could stay out of our way and Zidane played like Zidane.

Spain, the perennial NT flop, was never seriously considered a contender.  Germany was absolutely NOT (it;s even crazy to say this if you were around back then; Germany was in midst of a massive transformation and results were all over the place).  

Argentina were one of the favorites....  with Brazil.  England was another one.  France was the joker card due to the talent level. Germany because, despite all the uncertainty, were the hole team.

ffs people.

In fact, here were the odds:

Brazil 5/2
England 8/1
Germany 8/1
Argentina 8/1
Italy 19/2
France 14/1
The Netherlands 14/1
Spain 16/1
Portugal 23/1
Czech Republic 32/1

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0606/S00154/odds-to-win-2006-world-cup-from-pinnaclesportscom.htm

Damn people have short memories.

Nobody saw those performances coming from Zidane coming at the time at all.

He was coming off a couple of sub par seasons for Madrid and the expectation was it was just the last tournament for a legend.

Nobody really expected anything from him, which is why the performances were so celebrated. Part of it was because it was that great but it was also nobody expected it.

I say this because of the ruling out of Iniesta having a swansong tournament, some are acting like Zidane was expected to perform like that and that wasn't the case at all.

Difference Mole is that Zidane was handed the keys to running the team... I don't think Iniesta will have that luxury.  That's the only reason I'm saying that it will likely not be the same.

Also... this for you Mole...  Domenech was like Pardew.  Even if Newcastle had Ronaldo, Messia and prime Suarez as the forwards... tell me you wouldn't think that Pardew would f it up.  That's the same feeling everyone had (and rightly so) with Domenech.

Sports, repeating the words "2nd most talented squad" is not gonna magically make it so. And yes, Thuram did retire from International duty after Euro 2004, so did Makelele. They only came back because of Zidane. Henry and Trezeguet were legit shells of their club selves anytime they got called up to France.

Seriously, Warrior actually spoke the actual scenario, France were not some super maverick team. But you were a team and played like one. Mostly made possible because Zidane actually knows, even back then, how to run a team.

sportsczy wrote:Difference Mole is that Zidane was handed the keys to running the team... I don't think Iniesta will have that luxury.  That's the only reason I'm saying that it will likely not be the same.

Also... this for you Mole...  Domenech was like Pardew.  Even if Newcastle had Ronaldo, Messia and prime Suarez as the forwards... tell me you wouldn't think that Pardew would f it up.  That's the same feeling everyone had (and rightly so) with Domenech.

I don't disagree, I don't think it will happen but Zidane is living proof you shouldn't rule it out tbh.

Also I'm very well aware of all this as I'm old enough to remember it all, although I still think Domenech was better than Pardew lol.

But I understand what you mean lol.

Doc wrote:Sports, repeating the words "2nd most talented squad" is not gonna magically make it so. And yes, Thuram did retire from International duty after Euro 2004, so did Makelele. They only came back because of Zidane. Henry and Trezeguet were legit shells of their club selves anytime they got called up to France.

Seriously, Warrior actually spoke the actual scenario, France were not some super maverick team. But you were a team and played like one. Mostly made possible because Zidane actually knows, even back then, how to run a team.

Thuram and Makele were beasts.

Henry had 33 goals... and was tops in EPL that season with 27 goals (RVN was second with 21).

Trezeguet had 29 goals... and second only to Luca Toni (31) in Serie A with 23 goals.

again, i said "talent".  I'm not saying what they did or did not do with their talent on NT... which is why the odds I posted above had us at 14/1 as opposed to better (due to Domenech largely btw).

France was certainly not the second most talented team. That's part of why Zidane's tournament is so highly rated. He actually carried the team like few could. Argentina, Brazil and Italy had much more talented teams. Then, not on paper but when it actually came to it, there is also Germany.

I don't even want to hear about Germany tbh.

They were a very young team and flopped at the Euros.

Nobody considered them even close to favoured before the tournament aside from "it's Germany" and "they hosts".