Re: Zidane = Best manager ever if he wins 3333!!! CLs in a row

by Luca Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:57 am

The fact that Real is so dominant with Benzema is testament to the rest of the team

The guy has literally been stealing a living and a place in that team for a good few seasons now

They’re basically playing 10v11 ffs

by sportsczy Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:44 am

You can say the same thing for Real Madrid

Before this year, Ramos was just as big a clutch scorer as CR in big moments. Modric and Kroos were absolutely stellar. Casemiro keyed the ball recovery. Marcelo and Carvajal were crushing it as fullbacks. And Navas saved us in big moments time and time again.

Isco had amazing moments as well.

Benzema saved us in one tie... and that was Atleti last year. He's sucked otherwise and so has Bale mostly.

So in short, you're talking out of your arse futbol.

Messi actually has a lot more influence on Barca overall than Ronaldo does. We create the chances and get the ball to Ronaldo to finish. Messi is both creator and scorer for Barca. He has more help with Suarez in terms of scoring... but he has far less help everywhere else imo.

by S Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:36 am

Del Piero credits Zidane's Italian football education for Real Madrid success

Exclusive interview by @petermstaunton pic.twitter.com/ON4mFGuelP
— Goal (@goal) April 9, 2018

by futbol Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:45 pm

sportsczy wrote:

Messi actually has a lot more influence on Barca overall than Ronaldo does. We create the chances and get the ball to Ronaldo to finish. Messi is both creator and scorer for Barca. He has more help with Suarez in terms of scoring... but he has far less help everywhere else imo.

This is SO overstated. Ronaldo scores at a much higher rate than Messi scores and creates when it matters.

In the past 5 seasons in the CL quarter finals:

Messi: 0 goals, 1 assist
CR7: 10 goal, 2 assists

I'm certain if I look up semis and finals it will look even worse.

Pls tell me again how Messi is more influential just because he is lingering around the midfield circle more à la Benzema. Laughing

Touching the ball more often doesn't make you more influental.

Messi's creativity is overrated, he does the same pass to the left wing (used to be Neymar, now it's to Alba) and waits for the return pass. Sometimes he has his moments like against Pep's Bayern or in the Bernabeu last season when he is unstoppable, his peak is higher than anyone elses but that happens like once a season.

Ronaldo turns the easiest chances into goals. Simple crosses, aerial balls, counterattacks, second balls. Kroos or Modric do not create unbelieveable throughballs between 5 defenders that no other midfielder can. Ronaldo simply scores from every situation.

If I'm Ronaldo I would be livid that Messi is earning twice as much now.

by Myesyats Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:53 pm

I usually agree with you Fussball but this post is a load of shit

by futbol Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:55 pm

It is the truth. The sooner we accept Kommander >>>>> Messi, the better.

by Myesyats Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:36 pm

'Truth'.... First statement is already BS

Messi's all-time goal ratio is 0.81 compared to 0.72 for Ronaldo. Assist ratio difference is basically the same.

But Ronaldo scores at a MUCH higher rate?

Rest of the points you bring up don't make sense either. Cristiano is a much better athlete in general but when it comes to football Messi is simply better without question.

by Thimmy Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:55 pm

futbol wrote:
If I'm Ronaldo I would be livid that Messi is earning twice as much now.

Is he really earning that much more? I understand the wage gap considering Messi is 3 years younger, and you wouldn't expect your average 33 year old to be as influential as C. Ronaldo still is, at this point in his career, but the gap shouldn't be that substantial.

by Myesyats Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:02 pm

Messi is on $667,000 a week while CR is on about $515,000 a week. That's not twice as much...

by Kebab Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:28 pm

futbol stop talking bs. "Ronaldo turns the easiest chances into goals"
So messi cant turn easy chances into goals? Messi's goal per shoot ratio is higher than ronaldo's, means he scores his chances more than him. Dont come up with "ronaldo shoots from anywhere" because Messi has the most goals from outside of the box in the world for past 4-5 seasons. This is just first hint that Messi is better finisher. Second fact is that Messi's goal per game ratio is higher too.

Stop selling Ronaldo as best ever finisher and saviour of Madrid because he isnt and bycicle kick will not change that. that kick can only change you. He has to thank Benzema because if there was Lewandowski or Suarez he would not score as much, because everybody would not only feed ronaldo, they would share the food with lewa and suarez because they are great scorers too. and then we would see how ronaldo looks without his endless tapins. so thank benzema because he is not hungry for goals and accepted to be slavezma

Anyway if Messi always did what he did yesterday he would outscore ronaldo easily. Yesterday he cleary wanted goals and went for it, in some moments he didnt pass to suarez or coutinho he just wanted goals, maybe because he woke up after ronaldo's great goal and wanted to show the world that i'm still the king. But i didnt like that messi because he just scored and did nothing else. We love Messi when he owns the pitch with dribblings passing and goals. If he focuses on scoring and nothing else he will score 91 goals in a year. He has some advantages at scoring because he is better finisher, he can use his team mate for one-two's to open chances and score, if there is no clear chance he can dribble and turn it into goalscoring chance and score. Ronaldo needs servants to prepare kebab for him
Stop calling messi overrated and respect the king

by Mr Nick09 Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:53 pm

Myesyats wrote:Messi is on $667,000 a week while CR is on about $515,000 a week. That's not twice as much...

Messi makes twice as much actually. CR contract now is 21 mil net per season while Messi signed an extension to make 40 to 50 mil net per season with bonuses.

When you look at the tax barca also pay, Messi is essentially costing Barca 100 mil per season. He is the highest paid player ever.

CR fought to get an extension this summer and Madrid will increase his deal to about 30 mil net, but still below Neymar and Messi.

by Thimmy Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:07 pm

sportsczy wrote:So he's already done something NO OTHER MANAGER HAS DONE in CL... and the only way to redeem himself is to be a 3-TIME CONSECUTIVE CL WINNER.

And the tactics argument is absurd. It only comes because guys like Pep and Mourinho look to be overly clever to brand themselves as tactical geniuses... yet they're not even registering in Europe anymore as their great tactics actually destabilizes the players at the worse times.

Guys like Valverde and Zidane keep it simple and adjust the base tactics or with personnel... but keep everything mostly familiar so the players don't need to worry about where they're supposed to be when they have elite competition in front of them... it's already ingrained in their minds. The biggest focus is on their play.

I mean wow lol.

The issue Zidane has had in La Liga this year is that the veteran players partied too hard in the summer.... that simple. They weren't ready to play. No manager can tell Marcelo, Ramos and CR what to do. None of them showed up until January. Could he have benched the struggling players? Sure. But then he would have lost the team and we would have been worse off and never had a chance in CL either.

Players didn't show up hungry for work to start the season. And it's not a switch that can just turn on. It took 4 months to get themselves going.

If he wasn't french, I'm sure you wouldn't have been so easily won over by him. Regardless of whether or not he wins a third Champions League in a row, he's already made his mark in the history books by winning it twice in a row in the modern format. Achievement- wise, I think we all can agree that he's already been a massive success at the club. I appreciate the times when his tactical setups proved successful, and he deserves praise for getting it right against some of the thougher opponents we've played against under his stint. I don't doubt that he's a capable coach, I simply don't think he's exceptional, and I certainly don't think his success at Real Madrid reflects his actual coaching ability.

What I'm worried about, is his long-term performance, and the core of that worry is the actual level of his coaching ability. How will he handle an inexperienced squad that hasn't played together for several years, with players that may, or may not actually live up to their hype? I'm not at all surprised that you're conveniently pointing towards his trophy haul in the CL as a reference to his merit, and while that's all good and dandy, a realist would remember that his only success has come with a team that has the talent and experience to win on the grandest stage of them all, even when the tactics are working against them - as was evident last season, when we managed to win despite ZZ's nonsense choices of substitutes, and stubborn reliance on a tactic that, like him, did not always work in our favor although we somehow still managed to win consistently, even when we were looking substantially worse than my local team on occasion (I'm not even exaggerating). He's been successful, only with a team that was successful before he arrived.

Benitez dug his own grave when he caused unrest in the dressing room soon after arriving, but I, for one, still consider him a more able coach than Zidane, based on what I've actually seen from the two. A comparison that is admittedly unfair, considering the difference in experience. Then again, you're suggesting that achieving success with a single squad, is sufficient to be considered "the best manager ever".

by sportsczy Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:16 am

Depends what your criteria is for "best manager". If it's results, Zidane certainly up to this point. If it's tactical influence, of course not... he's a pragmatist, not a visionary.

Then you bring in longevity, squad development, etc. We won't know these things for years.

If he wins 3 CLs, he'll already be tied with the most ever in the competition with 3. Nobody can ever take that away from him.

And there's no way in the world Rafa is a better tactician... none.

by Thimmy Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:51 am

I don't, and have never liked Benitez' style of football, but I genuinely do think he's got more tactical nous than Zidane. Again, I'd love to hear your opinion on him if he were french.

Best manager based on results, eh? I suppose that's fair. Personally, I wouldn't make such a sensational claim about anyone who's only just started coaching.

by sportsczy Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:10 am

Rafa was good at Valencia. No doubt. Madrid were shit and Barca wasn't the Barca of today... but they still had to overcome Super Depo and the likes. Kudos to him there.

But he lost the plot at Liverpool. His early success got to his head and, like most egomaniacs, he was more intent on making himself look like a genius than actually figuring out the best way for his team to win. He fought with EVERYONE... and he was an idiot with man management and tactics.

I respect the Rafa of Valencia. But after that, he was a complete trainwreck in every way.

His "tactics" at Real Madrid were beyond idiotic.

by futbol Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:28 pm

Why do you come to me with Messi's overall goalscoring ratio? Yes, it's higher but not when it matters.

Answer this:

In the past 5 seasons in the CL quarter finals:

Messi: 0 goals, 1 assist
CR7: 10 goal, 2 assists

We can do it for the semis and final, too:

In the past 5 seasons in the CL semis + finals:

Messi: 2 goals, 1 assist
CR7: 10 goals, 1 assist

So in the past 5 seasons in the CL from the quarters onwards it is:

Messi: 2 goals, 2 assists
CR7: 20 goals, 3 assists

Yeah, but Messi is more important for Barca. Laughing

by Myesyats Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:43 pm

Messi has 38 goals in UCL knockout stages while Ronaldo has 58

That is indeed a 20 goal difference in favour of Cristiano. He's a machine in this competition but he has not led his team to more CL triumphs than Messi, in fact he has one less CL trophy than Messi, so does it really matter that he scored a couple goals more?

Also, let's ignore the fact that Messi led Barca to more than 1 trophy in all seasons he also took Barca to CL triumph.

Cristiano could never carry his team to a La Liga triump in a CL winning season (edit: sorry, he did that once, last season - still doesnt change anything), let alone a goddamn treble which Messi also managed to do -- more than once.

by Kebab Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:29 pm

Again CL quarter finals. Why you dont talk about CR flopping in la liga. 1 la liga in 8 years is just a big shame. Means he cant play against spanish teams that play in tight spaces

As for CL Messi played 1 semifinal in last 5 seasons. how can he score in matches which he didnt participate?

If we talk about quarter finals ronaldo faced average teams in quarter finals between 2012 and 2016
Quarter finals
2012 - 2 goals vs Apoel (tie result 8-2)
2013 - 3 goals vs Galatasaray (6-2)
2014 - 1 goal vs Dortmund (3-2)
2016 - 3 goals vs Wolfsburg (3-2)

Messi would score 10 in those 8 games.

You know that Messi scores in big games, i dont know why you argue about it to proove that ronaldo is better player. You cant even prove that Ronaldo is better scorer let alone he is better player.

stop finding more excuses because messi has better results and stats and you cant beat messi with those stats. instead appreciate him

by futbol Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:39 pm

Classic Messi performance again when his team needs him the most.

by Thimmy Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:50 pm

Kebab wrote:
As for CL Messi played 1 semifinal in last 5 seasons. how can he score in matches which he didnt participate?

If we talk about quarter finals ronaldo faced average teams in quarter finals between 2012 and 2016

Messi would score 10 in those 8 games.

You know that Messi scores in big games, i dont know why you argue about it to proove that ronaldo is better player. You cant even prove that Ronaldo is better scorer let alone he is better player.

stop finding more excuses because messi has better results and stats and you cant beat messi with those stats. instead appreciate him

Yes, let's talk quarter finals and assumed average teams :coffee:

by The Madrid One Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:53 pm

by Doc Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:09 am

So...futbol actually made a whole lotta sense with that troll post of his. Not sure if it was coincidental.

by Myesyats Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:41 am

futbol wrote:Classic Messi performance again when his team needs him the most.

He also needs the team. Look, when Madrid are playing bad they're still creating chances where Ronaldo can score, we barely got close to Roma's penalty area last night.

And Messi is a different type of player, he drops deep to help distribute the ball from the back so obviously he can't be in 2 places at once.

If only he could be at the end of his own passes.

by sportsczy Sat May 26, 2018 9:42 pm

quickly becoming as legendary a manager as he was a player....

by Firenze Sat May 26, 2018 9:47 pm

Greatest tactical mind of the modern era. His trophy cabinet ffs. Remember it was thought damn near impossible to retain a CL. Stats are real, everything else is subjective. Salute to the GOAT.

by Luca Sat May 26, 2018 10:04 pm

sportsczy wrote:quickly becoming as legendary a manager as he was a player....

Becoming? It's done. 3 in a row, utter dominance. Beat everyone, untouchable in finals

Defied a motif of splashing 100s of millions each summer on new players as every big club does but rather assembled a fine squad and reaped the benefits in more ways than one

The guy is a winner, plain and simple

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