Era of player power is upon us

+4
nasir6371
Great Leader Sprucenuce
FennecFox7
Adit
8 posters

Go down

Era of player power is upon us Empty Era of player power is upon us

Post by Adit Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:02 pm

Gone are the days of clubs having the power. Since the boss man ruling the player power has been gradually increasing. Now with many teams that can offer huge wages to these players they have almost unlimited choices. Now players have to be cuddled and their wishes comes before the contract. Shady deals like Neymar and Pogba are going to be the norm.. Agents getting insane amount because these players have tie up with them.
Adit
Adit
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Borussia Mönchengladbach
Posts : 9544
Join date : 2011-06-06

http://www.realmadridfootballblog.com

Back to top Go down

Era of player power is upon us Empty Re: Era of player power is upon us

Post by FennecFox7 Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:09 pm

The money is killing the competitiveness of the sport. That Ronaldo transfer was the trigger. It just gets worse and worse. I feel sorry for the small teams
FennecFox7
FennecFox7
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 7375
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 26

Back to top Go down

Era of player power is upon us Empty Re: Era of player power is upon us

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:14 pm

Eh? where you been lol, clubs haven't had the power for anything between 5-10 years lol.
Great Leader Sprucenuce
Great Leader Sprucenuce
Forum Legend
Forum Legend

Club Supported : PSG
Posts : 68928
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 32

Back to top Go down

Era of player power is upon us Empty Re: Era of player power is upon us

Post by nasir6371 Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:14 pm

Never understood Big Clubs not owning 100% of a players transfer rights. £20m to Raiola is crazy. Can someone explain why Raiola/Pogba own a % of their own transfer rights?
nasir6371
nasir6371
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Manchester City
Posts : 2167
Join date : 2012-04-11

Back to top Go down

Era of player power is upon us Empty Re: Era of player power is upon us

Post by Adit Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:16 pm

nasir6371 wrote:Never understood Big Clubs not owning 100% of a players transfer rights. £20m to Raiola is crazy. Can someone explain why Raiola/Pogba own a % of their own transfer rights?


Raiola can't own percentage of Pogba as third party deal is banned for years now.

This is some kind of adjustment deal between Pogba and Raiola imo.
Adit
Adit
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Borussia Mönchengladbach
Posts : 9544
Join date : 2011-06-06

http://www.realmadridfootballblog.com

Back to top Go down

Era of player power is upon us Empty Re: Era of player power is upon us

Post by Adit Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:17 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Eh? where you been lol, clubs haven't had the power for anything between 5-10 years lol.


It is getting worse now. Now clubs are sneaking in Money into players pocket as agent money and what not.
Adit
Adit
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Borussia Mönchengladbach
Posts : 9544
Join date : 2011-06-06

http://www.realmadridfootballblog.com

Back to top Go down

Era of player power is upon us Empty Re: Era of player power is upon us

Post by sportsczy Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:18 pm

Neymar was shady because both the club and the player lied to the authorities about the true amount to avoid taxes.

But how is the Pogba deal shady?  Please enlighten me.  The amounts are transparent and everyone will pay their taxes. There is no hidden amount anywhere.

Or are you just against players, agents, etc getting paid a lot of money?
sportsczy
sportsczy
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : Marseille
Posts : 20696
Join date : 2011-12-07

Back to top Go down

Era of player power is upon us Empty Re: Era of player power is upon us

Post by Adit Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:20 pm

sportsczy wrote:Neymar was shady because both the club and the player lied to the authorities about the true amount to avoid taxes.

But how is the Pogba deal shady? Please enlighten me.


In Neymar deal , his agent aka his father got 10 mill euro as agent fee which is just lol.

Same here really. What has Raiola done to get 20 what ever he is getting? What is special about him?
Adit
Adit
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Borussia Mönchengladbach
Posts : 9544
Join date : 2011-06-06

http://www.realmadridfootballblog.com

Back to top Go down

Era of player power is upon us Empty Re: Era of player power is upon us

Post by sportsczy Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:21 pm

That wasn't shady. Nothing wrong with Neymar having his father as the agent, as opposed to Raiola or Mendez, and getting paid for it.

The shady part was the under the table amounts that were never disclosed to anyone and were being hid by both Barca and Neymar to avoid taxes. That's shady and illegal.

Nothing about Raiola, Pogba and Juve getting paid is shady. It's just business.
sportsczy
sportsczy
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : Marseille
Posts : 20696
Join date : 2011-12-07

Back to top Go down

Era of player power is upon us Empty Re: Era of player power is upon us

Post by Adit Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:26 pm

It is dude, only reason Neymar agent for paid 10 million as agent fee is because he is Neymar father and Barcelona wanted to sneak in as much money into his pocket to get him.

Since when did 10 and 20 million agent fee became the norm? Enlighten me.
Adit
Adit
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Borussia Mönchengladbach
Posts : 9544
Join date : 2011-06-06

http://www.realmadridfootballblog.com

Back to top Go down

Era of player power is upon us Empty Re: Era of player power is upon us

Post by sportsczy Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:31 pm

Oh please.  Nothing shady even at the slightest.

Fees... and agent fees... are based on simple market economics. If someone is willing to pay 100 million to an agent to get something, then that agent gets paid. If nobody wants to pay the fee, either the agent drops his number or he gets nothing.

For Neymar and Pogba, the clubs wanted the players bad enough that they paid the fees. They didn't have to. Nobody held a gun to their heads. They could just as easily have passed.


Last edited by sportsczy on Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
sportsczy
sportsczy
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : Marseille
Posts : 20696
Join date : 2011-12-07

Back to top Go down

Era of player power is upon us Empty Re: Era of player power is upon us

Post by Luca Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:32 pm

I agree, agents should have to forfeit all fees... agents are lawyers essentially, they get a percentage of their player dealings.

Is this real life?

On a serious note, I was thinking about this recently too. What do you think about every player having a release clause and that release clause has to be based on some sort of calculation based on the players wages- for example, if a player makes gross 10M per year and has a 5 year contract the cost would be $50M... or if we double the multiplier: 100M. This would mean the only way to increase the release clause would be to increase the player wages. My only issue with my own, hypothetical, idea is that it would still cater for rich clubs but it would still allow somewhat smaller clubs to "franchise tag" a player- what player would not accept a healthy pay raise at the club they're at?

Clubs could still bid for players but at least there is always a way forward without the nonsense we see today.

Luca
J Council Master

Club Supported : Juventus
Posts : 14135
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 29

Back to top Go down

Era of player power is upon us Empty Re: Era of player power is upon us

Post by sportsczy Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:33 pm

That's price fixing.  It's illegal unless the players and agents agree to it... and they never will in a million years.  The only way such things work is if all the football players create a union and give the authority to that union to negotiate a collective bargaining agreement for them.  It exists in the US.  It's impossible in Europe.

The reason it works in the US is that the clubs are obligated via the agreement to spend a percentage of their revenue on players. They can't spend less. For example, I think the NBA salaries floor is 65% or thereabouts. The have max salaries but also league minimums for players.

It's would take a level of cooperation that doesn't exist in Europe.
sportsczy
sportsczy
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : Marseille
Posts : 20696
Join date : 2011-12-07

Back to top Go down

Era of player power is upon us Empty Re: Era of player power is upon us

Post by Luca Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:39 pm

sportsczy wrote:That's price fixing.  It's illegal unless the players and agents agree to it... and they never will in a million years.  The only way such things work is if all the football players create a union and give the authority to that union to negotiate a collective bargaining agreement for them.  It exists in the US.  It's impossible in Europe.

The reason it works in the US is that the clubs are obligated via the agreement to spend a percentage of their revenue on players. They can't spend less. For example, I think the NBA salaries floor is 65% or thereabouts. The have max salaries but also league minimums for players.

It's would take a level of cooperation that doesn't exist in Europe.


Well were already setting release clauses, I believe it's the norm in Spain and it does happen in Italy as well. I just like the idea and basing it off of something like wages allows us to calculate the clause rather than name it.

But just an idea, obviously I would never expect to see it come to fruition. How would you combat the transfer "problem"?

Luca
J Council Master

Club Supported : Juventus
Posts : 14135
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 29

Back to top Go down

Era of player power is upon us Empty Re: Era of player power is upon us

Post by sportsczy Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:48 pm

It's not a problem imo...  it's competition.  It forces clubs, leagues, heck, even countries to get with the times or get eaten by the competition.  I'm a big believer in that.

Regulation won't fix the problem.  Figuring out how to become competitive in an open marketplace will.

The star players were all in Serie A as early as 15 years ago because all the money was there.  Nobody could pay the wages or transfer fees that Serie A was paying back then.  You didn't hear the EPL cry a river about it... they just competed harder and turned the trend to what it is now.  Serie A needs to figure out how they fell behind and adjust.
sportsczy
sportsczy
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : Marseille
Posts : 20696
Join date : 2011-12-07

Back to top Go down

Era of player power is upon us Empty Re: Era of player power is upon us

Post by Luca Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:03 pm

Serie A knows exactly how they fell behind. Calciopoli, outdated stadium and a whole mess of mismanagement.

I just mean more the ridiculous fees, I don't mind the world record fees... they've kind of always been present and are just era adjusted (to quote big Harmonica himself), but it's that the general run of the mill player commands a much higher price tag than previously in my opinion.

But you're right, I'm not sure if I consider it a problem either, but it's very fascinating to analyze and discuss.

Luca
J Council Master

Club Supported : Juventus
Posts : 14135
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 29

Back to top Go down

Era of player power is upon us Empty Re: Era of player power is upon us

Post by sportsczy Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:28 pm

I'm actually happy that the lower level players are getting paid well. It incentivizes kids to stick with football even if they're not amazing. That creates more competition for those spots and it raises the level of the next tier players as a result...

I'm hoping that the gap between the top tier players and the next tier ones tightens so that, even if you have a super team, you can be beaten without it causing a big surprise. Having the same teams get to the QFs ever year in CL is getting very boring to me.
sportsczy
sportsczy
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : Marseille
Posts : 20696
Join date : 2011-12-07

Back to top Go down

Era of player power is upon us Empty Re: Era of player power is upon us

Post by titosantill Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:26 pm

the agent fee is high but NOT illegal. it's very different from the neymar situation. the neymar situation isn't as simple as barcelona wanting to sneak in money to get him. there's more to it than that. and we still don't have all the information about it, cos if i'm not mistaken, santos are still battling the whole thing out. neymar's transfer was declared by barcelona's ex-president at a certain price, 17 million, and everyone was surprised at how cheap the deal was.

but 17 million was what they paid to santos, it wasn't until inquiries were made that people started finding out that they paid neymar's dad 40 million (not 10 million) through N&N agency- a company owned by neymar's parents. and a couple million dollars more to neymar's dad for scouting talent in brazil, and some moneys paid to him even before the transfer....unlike that deal, this pogba one is very transparent, his rights aren't owned by any third party, as was the case with neymar. the club he's at, juventus, pays his full wages, unlike santos and neymar, where his wage bill was split between them and other parties. agents get some commission on transfers, i don't think its included in the fee, but they get something. this one, high it is, but nothing illegal.

everyone knows where the money's going. besides santos, and N&N, there are still at least one or two third parties that barcelona paid money to, to complete that transfer. santos is furious they received only 17 million, compared to the 40 neymar's dad pocketed and the other moneys spent on "scouting",  "foundation", "other payments to dis esporte" all in a bid to sign neymar.....very different scenario from pogba
titosantill
titosantill
First Team
First Team

Posts : 4746
Join date : 2013-09-22

Back to top Go down

Era of player power is upon us Empty Re: Era of player power is upon us

Post by titosantill Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:46 pm

as far as player power, i'm not sure its new. i mean, the talent should always have some sort of say with respect to where he wants to go right? look at de gea; i maintain that it would have been foolish and irresponsible to pay 30 million for a goalkeeper, with a year left on his deal, when we ourselves have a reasonable goalie in navas. BUT, how lvg and utd did him, forcing his hand to signing a new deal was cold. for reasons like that, i don't mind player power (depends what we classify under player power)

neymar's situation wasn't even about player power but rather third party ownership. it constituted a problem for atleti in the sale of falcao, where his contract was owned partly by other organizations including a company owned/funded by his agent mendes. and some leagues are doing well to clamp down on that, e.g. the epl, who had issues with mascherano and west ham....that's not player power

remember one thing with regards player power; clubs and fans will throw mud and insults at a player who in his prime leaves their team to newer pastures. but when that player is past 30 and still feels he has something left in his tank, clubs are more interested in presenting a video montage and waving adios to said player, than keeping him. i don't mind discarding players who are past it, so i also don't mind players having the say-so with regards their exit.....some transfers r foolish, but doesn't mean players should be forced to play where they don't want to
titosantill
titosantill
First Team
First Team

Posts : 4746
Join date : 2013-09-22

Back to top Go down

Era of player power is upon us Empty Re: Era of player power is upon us

Post by LeBéninois Fri Jul 29, 2016 9:16 pm

In 2009 Benzema was joining RM for 35 millions and 7 years later an agent is getting 25 millions . Crazy market.
.
LeBéninois
LeBéninois
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 4026
Join date : 2011-06-09

Back to top Go down

Era of player power is upon us Empty Re: Era of player power is upon us

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum