Casemiro vs. Kante

Both have about one season under their belts

Who is better?
Who would you rather have in your team?
Who is better in what way?

halamadrid2 wrote:Casemiro played for Porto too or does that not count?

Up to you brother

Again, it depends on the set up. In a 3 man mf with a DM Casemiro any day. Better at positioning himself when he has a bigger ball park to guard, better at distributing the ball, stronger and better passer. Wasn't impressed with him in a 2 man MF, when he played alongside Modric/Kroos iirc.

In a 2 man MF with a lot of ground to cover Kante. He can run all day, is a cleaner tackler than Casemiro and his positioning isn't that important when you have half the pitch to guard.

It would alos depend on the kind of players around them but what I wrote above is general. Both can play in the same team so for me they are not the same type.

this is a real tough one. and a debate that makes sense, unlike some of the other ridiculous head to head debates we have unfortunately witnessed. both stellar seasons- kante as part of leicester's cinderella story and casemiro - a revelation after we did away with the foolish move of playing 4 midfielders with no defensive bone in their body....taking my girl and kids out, i'll need some time to come back and get in on this. Good one luca

Casemiro is better.I would rather have Weigl in my team. More accurate passer, not risky tackler and overall more rounded and smart than these two.

titosantill wrote:this is a real tough one. and a debate that makes sense, unlike some of the other ridiculous head to head debates we have unfortunately witnessed. both stellar seasons- kante as part of leicester's cinderella story and casemiro - a revelation after we did away with the foolish move of playing 4 midfielders with no defensive bone in their body....taking my girl and kids out, i'll need some time to come back and get in on this. Good one luca

The 4 Mfs you refer to I'm guessing are when you played Hames Kroos Modric and Isco in MF. It worked to perfection when Bale was injured and that was when CR had hsi best GS form and Madrid went on their unbeaten streak. It failed once Bale came back and Carlo tried using Bale in Hames role but Bale couldn't carry the ball from the back and he never defended then it ended up being a 4-3------------3 with the front 3 not defending. With that team minus Bale Madrid would have retained the CL for me but Bale has to play.

You smashed Barcelona with that formation and dominated their MF. The defence was great because all 4 became compact after trying a soft press which is why Madrid conceded so few goals even with san Leaker in goal. Isco and Hames were ball carriers which allowed Marcelo in particular to defend and attack properly.

@jibers, i hated that midfield, my opinions have been made clear in various madrid threads. i felt the 22 game run that they went through masked underlying problems. playing many la liga and ucl underlings made them look like they knew what they were doing...yeah we beat barcelona, but i've always felt there was more to that win, i won't go deep into it to avoid any over-analysis. i've always liked balance, not a team with attacking mids who can't mark or tackle to save their skin. and we've played with that four afterwards and haven't looked good...you don't know how much i absolutely hated that set up. very disrespectful to the dm position

back to the topic. i'm basing my opinion on this season and this season alone. never saw casemiro at porto, i don't watch porto nor care to follow the portuguese league. i only began watching kante say around december, cared little for leicester, but when it was like "these guys are still around"? i began watching them.

it depends;i'd probably go with casemiro. maybe i'm being biased here, but if i simply want a rough house defender to do the dirty work, which is primarily what i look for in my defensive mid, i'm going with casemiro. if you want a ball playing dm, kante's probably the better bet, i think he's way more comfortable on the ball. just that i prefer my DMs to carry out ugly operations

titosantill wrote:@jibers, i hated that midfield, my opinions have been made clear in various madrid threads. i felt the 22 game run that they went through masked underlying problems. playing many la liga and ucl underlings made them look like they knew what they were doing...yeah we beat barcelona, but i've always felt there was more to that win, i won't go deep into it to avoid any over-analysis. i've always liked balance, not a team with attacking mids who can't mark or tackle to save their skin. and we've played with that four afterwards and haven't looked good...you don't know how much i absolutely hated that set up. very disrespectful to the dm position

But there was balance precisely because of what I said. Di Maria carried the ball into attack from MF and provided the width because CR is a false winger who occupies CFs position. In the defensive phase Madrid where not broken down because Isco and Hames ball carrying meant Kroos and Modric could stay central and both go deep in a pair together and they cut of passing lanes. They compressed the spaces betwen the lines across the field that Messi literally couldn't do anything. It was great to watch. Again, Bale's presence transformed it from a 442 to a 433 and destabilised it. You m=not liking it seems irrational becaue it produced Madrids best patch of form in their history and allowed 4 fantastic technicians to be on the field and contribute. More importantly, they covered for CR which allowed him to do what he does without being a tactical liability.

Except Kante was a horrible DM for France and couldnt 'ball play' at all. He kept shifting to his left and was terrible positionally as he kept tilting to his left and at points France had no mf whatsoever. You picking Kante of Casemiro is literally based on nothing he has displayed.

At Leicester he played in a double Pivote and just covered a lot of ground and only had to defedn the left and the team was compact anyways. There is little evidence based on any of his displays as a DM that he can cover a wide ball park. Kante might look better in EPL where it is end to end but Casemiro for me is better on the ball and better at distributing.

lol if you followed some of my posts during that "best patch of form" i was never convinced by those wins. big wins, don't get me wrong, but i always felt those were games we could have won in our sleep regardless (besides the barcelona game, i have my reservations on that game and that barca side we met btw). even with bale in the 4 3 3, if there's no dm i'm not a fan. i expect we can handle ourselves against the espanyols and granada's of this world. but in crunch time, and against teams that know what they're doing i want at least 1 dm in place.

the midfield trio of di maria modric and alonso i liked...but even when that just started, i hated it on paper. i grew to like it cos of di maria's work rate....something isco and james do not have. we can field isco jese and ramos in midfield against granada espanyol et al and i still expect us to win. i maintain that team just had the calendar smile on them on that win streak (bar barcelona), i hardly rate any of those teams we met, not villareal, not bilbao (i expect us to beat them, especially villareal, who are prone to play an open game)...was disappointed when they beat us away this past season

back on topic, i'm not trusting at all with casemiro on the ball, he just looks shaky at times. i think my description of kante being more comfortable is based on him probably being more daring to go forward...however it doesn't matter, i rate my DMs mainly for their defensive attributes, which is why i'd take casemiro. but i know many football fans for whatever reason like for every player on the pitch, even the goalkeeper to have ball playing skills. i was never a fan of the "goalkeeper good with the ball at his feet rhetoric"...btw kante being s scrub for france is a bit of a stretch i think

jibers wrote:

titosantill wrote:this is a real tough one. and a debate that makes sense, unlike some of the other ridiculous head to head debates we have unfortunately witnessed. both stellar seasons- kante as part of leicester's cinderella story and casemiro - a revelation after we did away with the foolish move of playing 4 midfielders with no defensive bone in their body....taking my girl and kids out, i'll need some time to come back and get in on this. Good one luca

The 4 Mfs you refer to I'm guessing are when you played Hames Kroos Modric and Isco in MF. It worked to perfection when Bale was injured and that was when CR had hsi best GS form and Madrid went on their unbeaten streak. It failed once Bale came back and Carlo tried using Bale in Hames role but Bale couldn't carry the ball from the back and he never defended then it ended up being a 4-3------------3 with the front 3 not defending. With that team minus Bale Madrid would have retained the CL for me but Bale has to play.

You smashed Barcelona with that formation and dominated their MF. The defence was great because all 4 became compact after trying a soft press which is why Madrid conceded so few goals even with san Leaker in goal. Isco and Hames were ball carriers which allowed Marcelo in particular to defend and attack properly.

I liked that midfield too.

@ how you rate Casemiro in particular not related to Kante or any other DM ?

titosantill wrote:lol if you followed some of my posts during that "best patch of form" i was never convinced by those wins. big wins, don't get me wrong, but i always felt those were games we could have won in our sleep regardless (besides the barcelona game, i have my reservations on that game and that barca side we met btw). even with bale in the 4 3 3, if there's no dm i'm not a fan. i expect we can handle ourselves against the espanyols and granada's of this world. but in crunch time, and against teams that know what they're doing i want at least 1 dm in place.

the midfield trio of di maria modric and alonso i liked...but even when that just started, i hated it on paper. i grew to like it cos of di maria's work rate....something isco and james do not have. we can field isco jese and ramos in midfield against granada espanyol et al and i still expect us to win. i maintain that team just had the calendar smile on them on that win streak (bar barcelona), i hardly rate any of those teams we met, not villareal, not bilbao (i expect us to beat them, especially villareal, who are prone to play an open game)...was disappointed when they beat us away this past season

Except I already disproved this and they did when they played. Hames and Isco tracked the FBs all the way to their halves and Isco was covering for Marcelo whilst also Ball carrying himself. They were a big reason that Madrid had that record and improved defensively. Saying that Isco and Hames did not defend is just quite baffling. Bale came back and destabilised it. When you say a DM do you mean like Alonso? A guy that was repeatedly raped in classicos and by every dam competent mfer over the course of his Madrid career? He was terrible defensively and iirc was the most dribbled player in a particular la liga season.

So by a competent team you mean like, let's say Bayern and the 4-0? Madrid played a 442 and battered Bayern and defended well BECAUSE the team was compact. No player, no matter how good they are can destabilise a compact team that is spread across the line which is what Atleti do. In that 442 as I said Kroos and Modric where allowed to stay quite deep and 2 players covering space is always greater than 1 player. The problem with 2 dms is in the attacking phase and the build up but Madrid alleviated that with having 4 ball players.

Casemiro easily the guy is actually way more proven, tje things that he is good at get downplayed and a lot of his faults are exaggerated, cause some posters don't know nothing outside of YouTube, he is very close to being elite just because he wasn't pre hyped, like others doesn't mean he doesn't >

kante has done sod all as far as I'm concerned and no I don't care about winning a crappy prem title cause everybody decent sucked ass, couldn't even get a game in the finals lol, I bet in a couple seasons kante doesn't pan out at a bigger club, and the same kneejerkers gonna be the first to bash him.

Respect to jibs for going in deep and teaching the youtubers a lesson.

Kante was an integral part of the team that won the PL. The same team that most expected to get relegated. Yet, he's done sod all.

Chadito pls.