arguments by football fans that never makes sense

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Post by Adit Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:32 pm

1. "Why do you care about how much club spend on x player? It's not your money"

Clubs don't have unlimited budget. Overpaying on one player affects the transfer budget and forces the team to rely on shet players or simply ignore the more important needs , see Barca CB problem. It also sets bad record for your future transfers.

2."Professional Coach/manager knows better than you, he sees players/knows tactics more than arm chair managers"

Managers and coaches makes mistakes and a football fan is not blind, he can identify problems even if he can't come up with solution(which is a difficult task to do).

Everyone in this forum could see that Pedro was a limited player who made a career thanks to Leo messi and was past it in 2014 but Chelsea paid 30 something million for him. Chelsea scouts were terribly wrong and everybody here were right.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:40 pm

Good thread and good point, however I think the 'arguments' you argue against are worth reminding oneself of, occasionally, now and then, if one finds oneself taking one's internet shit talking and transfer virtual managerdom too seriously.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:42 pm

That Pogba is worse than Ignacio Camacho.
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Post by Luca Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:44 pm

Two commonly used logical fallacies, far from the only ones that football fans and most people alike commonly use.

The first is appealing that there is no personal investment
-while we may not be shareholders that alone does not make a point invalid (like saying player A costs too much)

The second is your classic appeal to authority

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Post by Kebab Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:47 pm

Transfer is a lottery. Alexis shone in Arsenal, pedro flopped. Nobody would predict. You can say Alexis is better footballer, but its only because he made himself better in your eyes after leaving barca. Before transfer nobody knew
You and professional managers do know nothing. Only God knows
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Post by Adit Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:52 pm

Kebab wrote:Transfer is a lottery. Alexis shone in Arsenal, pedro flopped. Nobody would predict. You can say Alexis is better footballer, but its only because he made himself better in your eyes after leaving barca. Before transfer nobody knew
You and professional managers do know nothing. Only God knows


What the hell.
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Post by sportsczy Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:54 pm

The football elite are clearly struggling for cash and need the fans to hold them in line with their spending... especially Madrid. I mean the fact that we're worth 3.3 billion, have revenue of almost 600 million, operating profit of 200 million and our debt coverage ratio is 2,5x clearly shows that Flo is reckless with the finances and he needs to be careful.

Let the professionals decide. We're all amateurs here. As much as we like to think we do... we really don't know shat and have only a small fraction of the info or the understanding of how a club operates.
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Post by Kebab Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:11 pm

Adit wrote:
Kebab wrote:Transfer is a lottery. Alexis shone in Arsenal, pedro flopped. Nobody would predict. You can say Alexis is better footballer, but its only because he made himself better in your eyes after leaving barca. Before transfer nobody knew
You and professional managers do know nothing. Only God knows


What the hell.
yeah you can only say "I said so" after your prediction becomes true. and probably 1 out of 20 becomes true.
which player you want in Madrid next season?
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Post by guest7 Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:46 pm

You pretty much can't disagree with what sportszy said
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Post by CBarca Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:52 pm

Agreed with Sports, let the professionals decide, no point in talking about it imo, think I'm going to retire from GL. Just going to assume that Rosell and Barca management were all being incredibly smart when breaking laws, getting a transfer ban, making shady deals and being corrupt as hell. We're amateurs here

What were any Barca fans thinking to question their authority? Brb not going to question Lucho at all either, everybody and his mother could see that resting any of MSN would have brought doom and we wouldn't have gotten past Atletico even if we did rest. Lucho was correct in playing them 24/7
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Post by Kebab Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:00 pm

Rosell broke laws for profit, it was not a mistake it was a crime.
Lucho wanted to rest MSN. but MSN said no
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Post by rincon Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:02 pm

"Brazil is crap hence the competition must be crap"
^That nonsense being thrown around for the Copa America and the Olympics :facepalm:
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Post by titosantill Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:28 pm

everyone makes mistakes. managers watch these guys in training week in week out, we don't. just cos the managers gaffes here and there doesn't automatically mean ball clubs should start making their decisions based on public opinion and online football website votes.

chelsea knew what they were going for with pedro, i doubt they were telling themselves "we're going to build our team around this guy". a lot of people knew pedro is among many who have been fortunate to have messi, david villa, xavi, xabi et al on their team, yes there are few who fooled themselves into believing he was better than stoichkov, i doubt chelsea scouts and mourinho were among those. but the failure was a failure of chelsea's last year as a whole than the move for pedro....the move was insignificant with respect to their failure last season, there's a feeling it would have happened with or without him.....system player.
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Post by LeBéninois Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:46 pm

One is argument that I hate is when the following situation occurs :

Team A dominates the game and should have been awarded a penalty at 25' for instance. They keep missing so the score is 0-0 at 85'. Then, Team B gets a chance and their player is fouled somehow. Should be a pen but the ref miss it too.

In that situation you'll hear a lot of people say '' Team B didn't DESERVE to win anyways '' or
'' The ref not awarding the 2nd pen even out the situation as Team a didn't get theirs. ''

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Post by zigra Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:50 am

sportsczy wrote:The football elite are clearly struggling for cash and need the fans to hold them in line with their spending... especially Madrid. I mean the fact that we're worth 3.3 billion, have revenue of almost 600 million, operating profit of 200 million and our debt coverage ratio is 2,5x clearly shows that Flo is reckless with the finances and he needs to be careful.

Let the professionals decide. We're all amateurs here. As much as we like to think we do... we really don't know shat and have only a small fraction of the info or the understanding of how a club operates.


hmm hmm hmm
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Post by Adit Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:18 am

I mean it's not like the professionals almost ran the club down in 2003 and had to sell training ground to government in shady deal to survive.


Exactly what I meant by "professionals knows better than you argument" Laughing
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Post by Luca Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:00 am

Adit wrote:I mean it's not like the professionals almost ran the club down in 2003 and had to sell training ground to government in shady deal to survive.


Exactly what I meant by "professionals knows better than you argument" Laughing


Not to mention there's absolutely nothing wrong with giving your opinion or forming an original thought, even if it isn't the route the club takes.

Are we supposed to be mindless drones? Why don't we all just regurgitate what we read and never form an original argument?

It's a spectator sport, not a tyrannical government regime where freedom of thought doesn't exist. I mean it's quite absurd, especially when you consider that what all of us have in common is our subscription to a football based forum to discuss that very topic.

Anyways, that ends my mini rant on that subject

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Post by titosantill Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:30 am

people are allowed to, and do form their opinions, hence the opinion polls that sports journals carry, as well as random interviews with fans they make. hell even on gl, that's what we enjoy. i don't think the argument is that fans should or should not be able to give their opinion, they do, to the point where now some even go on to make a career of it, starting a site, podcast, blog etc...

i may be wrong but i think the argument here is that, coaches/directors have to listen to or take into consideration what fans say and my take, they don't or shouldn't have to. yes, there are times fans are right (even though a lot of times that comes in hindsight) but there are more things that go on behind the scenes that make what's considered the most sensible move difficult to execute. 1 + 1 doesn't simply equal 2

two, even though some pundit may be good at his job calling games it doesn't mean he'll do a better job running a club than the guy who saw them go bankrupt. its easy to sit and critique from the other side, (nothing wrong with that, its part of the love we have for sports) but most of these pundits don't want the risk that comes with coaching or running a ball club...neither do fans
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Post by guest_07 Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:10 am

europe club team NEVER give a damn on intercontinental cup or world club cup


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Post by titosantill Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:51 pm

lol I don't care about the intercontinental or world club cup, hell i for one think the tournament, alongside other "super cups" should be scrapped. it made a little sense when there was some unearthed player that was highly talked about in south america, like when zico's flamengo played liverpool. but these days when we get access to watch all the talent around the world, flying long distances for this imo is a waste of time and energy. footballers already play too many games; time spent playing "super" cups, world club cups, confederations cups could be used for something useful like resting.

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Post by S Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:00 pm

sportsczy wrote:The football elite are clearly struggling for cash and need the fans to hold them in line with their spending... especially Madrid. I mean the fact that we're worth 3.3 billion, have revenue of almost 600 million, operating profit of 200 million and our debt coverage ratio is 2,5x clearly shows that Flo is reckless with the finances and he needs to be careful.

Let the professionals decide. We're all amateurs here. As much as we like to think we do... we really don't know shat and have only a small fraction of the info or the understanding of how a club operates.


This.
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Post by S Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:14 pm

Luca wrote:
Adit wrote:I mean it's not like the professionals almost ran the club down in 2003 and had to sell  training ground to government in shady deal to survive.


Exactly what I meant by "professionals knows better than you argument" Laughing


Not to mention there's absolutely nothing wrong with giving your opinion or forming an original thought, even if it isn't the route the club takes.

Are we supposed to be mindless drones? Why don't we all just regurgitate what we read and never form an original argument?

It's a spectator sport, not a tyrannical government regime where freedom of thought doesn't exist. I mean it's quite absurd, especially when you consider that what all of us have in common is our subscription to a football based forum to discuss that very topic.

Anyways, that ends my mini rant on that subject


Nothing wrong with actually discussing on how a football club operates or the decisions they take but when football fans keep persisting and pretend like they know more, its when where they have a to draw a line.

Most here on this forum at least dont have a background on finances or work in corporations in this case football clubs to have a legit idea on how things work so as Sports said, let professionals decide.

Easy to use hindsight when certain decisions go wrong like always.

At the end of the day, we support a sports team not a business corporation. At best, all you could do is back the management that is running the club ESPECIALLY when things are running smoothly like it is at Madrid for example.
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Post by Doc Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:18 pm

Yeah I'm still gonna question Madrid's nonsensical nonsense because they do nonsense.

I totally get what Sports wrote but if we can call professional footballers who can out run most of us walking and out dribble most of us standing still "useless", "crap", "overrated", why can't we question managers, club decisions, Zlatan, etc.?

If we have the moral authority to do the former, the latter falls in the same realm. That being said, personally find that argument makes sense, the fan's point of view versus the club's point of view.

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Post by Luca Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:20 pm

I'm sorry but that just doesn't fly, in the slightest, in football or with life in general.

I'll break it down very simply on formal logic alone

1. Appealing to authority
2. Appealing to expertise in the field
3. Appealing to personal stake in the claim
4. Strawman- you're presenting a simplified, overstated and completely exaggerated example in order to support your claim and denounce others (not knowing when to draw the line and hindsight)

These are very common forms of flawed logic executed flawlessly by ya'll.

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Post by S Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:39 pm

Whats the point of fandom then ? Are you gonna be a happy fan enjoying the club's success or you gonna remain a disgruntled fan(even when your team is winning) and consistently criticize the club's decisions when you dont agree with it ?

If i have take Madrid as an example, they do this ALL THE TIME(buying star players to alter the balance of the team). People who've been supporting Madrid for long enough should be knowing this so what's the fuss ? When you know the policy wont change, either you stick with it or jump ship. They are not gonna listen to you clearly. You'll just end up being unhappy and disgruntled in the process.
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