Summer 2016: Copa America, Euro & Olympics Watch

alexjanosik wrote:It really is a shame for Suarez, although excellent news for us. Just saw a stat about Uruguay in major tournaments(CA and WC) with and without Suarez.

10 wins, 3 draws, and one meaningless loss with Suarez. 1 win, 1 draw, and 7 losses without Suarez.

Quite clear how important he is to them. They are a completely different beast with him. With him, I am positive they would have been one of the contenders for the tournament. He just has that intangible ability to raise the level of the entire team when he plays. Can make even pub teams like Liverpool and Uruguay punch above their weight and become championship contenders. And for a super team like us, he raises our level to the point where we almost become unplayable.

It is a rare ability and difficult to put an exact finger on( ability to raise the level of the entire team and make them punch above their weight). Few very players in history have had this ability and Suarez is one of them. Part of the reason why I rate him so highly.

Bankz wrote:
So after scoring 59 goals, and winning the double, suarez gets to loose out on the BDO to messi and CR7, yet again? That guy has no luck whatsoever.

alexjanosik wrote:Remind me again why we sold Sanchez? Had another outstanding game for Chile.
We really should have kept him. He struggled in his first season for us and a bit in the second season too. But he constantly improved and was very good in his third season. Should have kept him as he is an elite attacker and has another 4-5 years ahead of him. Even if we were to sell, should have gone for way more. We should have gotten 30 mil more than we got for him(given some of the amounts scrubs are going for).

alexjanosik wrote:What haters? The criticism is well grounded. You can dress up the pig as much as you want. Fact remains that he flopped in the knockouts of the WC.

He is being compared to the GOATS. The standards he is going to be judged by are also going to be different.
All the GOATS have had legendary NT performances. So should Messi. Failed at WC 2014. I thought he arrived in the form of his life at CA '15. Unfortunately for him, it was a very cynical and brutal tournament where the refs offered him little protection. So his dribbling wasnt as effective. He barely moves off the ball and the Chileans closed him down well so he couldnt get the ball in dangerous areas.

The way he plays is not conducive to great NT performances in the modern era. He plays like an old school 10 who walks around as if owns the pitch waiting for the ball in areas where he is dangerous. That might have worked in the era of Maradona and Platini but not now. The modern game requires the entire team to move and cant afford a luxury player like Messi against other elite sides. Especially at NT level.

The question naturally is why then it works for us at club level. Few reasons. At club level, teams can develop tactics to work around this problem. We enjoy 70 % possession and give Messi 50 touches of the ball a game in areas where he can inflict maximum damage. Secondly we have developed tactics where Rakitic does a lot of the work Messi should be doing. He occupies the spaces Messi vacates on the wing, makes sacrificing runs to open up space for Messi. Suarez too does the same. Plus at Barca, we have developed tactics and certain movements to take advantage of Messi's passing. He is exceptional at that diagonal over the top throughball. As a team, we have perfected the art of maximising the effect of that play.
Messi gets the ball wide right, Suarez makes a darting dummy run inside pulling CB's with him. Neymar or Alba makes the outside to in run and Messi picks them out with alarming regularity.

So tactics, possession(enabling him to get maximum touches in dangerous areas) and certain fixed plays that have been practiced to perfection help us overcome the tactical problem caused by Messi's lack of movement.Even then in some games against the big sides, it is a clear problem as it was in some CL games and the return Clasico this season.

Now coming to Argentina. Argentina didnt have these specific tactics to counter the problem. They dont enjoy 70 % possession in games. They dont have a Xavi or an Iniesta who can get him the ball 50 times in dangerous areas in a game. At best, he gets maybe 10 touches of the ball in dangerous areas compared to 50 for us. And because he doesnt move, he wont change that voluntarily. If he moved well, he would be able to change that.
Plus they dont have tactics that can make use of Messi's specific strengths . They dont have a Rakitic who does the dirty work and makes the tactical runs and plays to open up space for Messi. They also dont have forwards and fullbacks who make the type of runs that Messi can pick out with his passes. So his play gets severely limited. He isnt an unpredictable genius like Maradona or Ronnie and when his specific plays are cut off, his effectiveness is reduced at NT level.

UNTIL NOW. What has changed in this tournament? A couple of things. For one, Tata has focused more on possession. Messi is a poor counter attacking player and the 2014 WC model of counter attacking was never going to bring the best out of him. Tata has emphasized possession which means Argentina see more of the ball which means Messi sees more of the ball. Now it is not Barca level possession but it is still more than they used to have. So Messi now sees more of the ball in dangerous areas than he used to see in the past for his NT.
Secondly Tata has clearly worked on incorporating the specific plays to take advantage of Messi's strengths. The over the top diagonal throughball play is clearly a tactic they have worked on in training and they have utilized it to great success throughout this tournament.
You see a lot of players making the sort of runs Messi likes for his passes. eg: The Rojo run against Panama for the Aguero goal. The Higuain run against Venezuela for his goal. There were a couple of other runs in that game. Same today.

So credit to Tata for getting the best out of Messi. He has gotten Argentina playing well even without Messi and has finally helped Messi have a great NT tournament. Tata is a better coach than he is often given credit for and deserves a lot of praise for this.
Lastly credit to Messi for an outstanding tournament. His FK goal today was sublime and the fact it came in the SF of a major tournament makes it even more special.

alexjanosik wrote:Crunch game for Messi. It is certain that Chilea wont give him the space USA did. They will be a lot more physical. If he can have a good game and help Argentina win, his standing will improve in the minds of a lot of skeptics(including myself).

Marcus Aurelius wrote:Pretty foolish on Messi's part. He could still have had a shot at the next World cup

Also he's still relatively young and hes the captain of the team which makes this decision a little awkward at the moment

All this is mostly down to Tata Martino imo doe, what a shitty and uninspiring ''coach''

windkick wrote:I don't think his team mates are up to the task to wear that jersey yet, allot of them are pretty young

(Except african teams obviously )