Doctor Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

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Post by Harmonica Sat May 14, 2016 8:54 pm

Kebab wrote:
Harmonica wrote:I would probably rank it in actual involvement.

Carrying 1000 points
Best player 600 points
Top 3 player 200 points
Team Player 150 points
Squad player 100 points
Fake player 5 points

actually good point.it explains why Pedro will never be considered better than R9

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Post by Kebab Sat May 14, 2016 8:55 pm

the actual trophy cabinet is eyes for me. other than that all are fake
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Post by Harmonica Mon May 23, 2016 2:01 am

Most competitive team titles (no fixed or invitational)

35 D.Alves
34 Giggs
33 Iniesta
31 Eusebio
30 Messi
29 Pele
...
23 Cruyff
22 Di Stefano
21 Beckenbauer
17 Ronaldo
16 C.Ronaldo
15 Zidane
12 Maradona
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Post by McLewis Mon May 23, 2016 2:26 am

So what is the narrative here?

That Dani Alves knows a good thing when he sees it so he stays to be a part of it and reap the treasure trove of rewards?

That's what I got out of it. He'll go down as one of the best full-backs of his generation, but that's about it for me. Great player, but I'm not sure what this topic is trying to prove.
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Post by Harmonica Mon May 23, 2016 2:49 am

Prove? Only thing I can think it proving is that futbol is a corpse. Other than that it's mostly informative.

Being good enough staying part of something great is still millionbillion miles better than running after money like a hog.
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Post by Peccadillo Mon May 23, 2016 3:01 am

I certainly feel better informed having read this thread. Very insightful Harm
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Post by McLewis Mon May 23, 2016 3:23 am

Harmonica wrote:Prove? Only thing I can think it proving is that futbol is a corpse. Other than that it's mostly informative.

Being good enough staying part of something great is still millionbillion miles better than running after money like a hog.


You'll have to forgive me as I support a club who has won only 3 trophies in the last 15 years. In real-life terms, I'm the guy who makes 50K a year with a wife, kids and a house in the burbs. This talk of who won how many 30-something titles is akin to me reading about which billionaire just made the most money off the latest in a long line of mergers and brokerings. Roma are the middle-class schlubs of the football world after all. All of this talk of titles and such is way above our heads as we simply don't live in that same world. That's where I'm confounded.

To put it simply when it comes the purpose of what this topic is trying to discern: It does not compute.
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Post by CBarca Mon May 23, 2016 4:55 am

Of his generation?

Dani alves is one of the greatest right backs of all time, and you don't need any count of titles to understand that. When he's done it's certainly up for consideration that he is the greatest right back of all time. Disrespect from Mclewis right now imo
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Post by Lord Awesome Mon May 23, 2016 5:00 am

You'd pick Dani Alves over Cafu, CBarca?
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Post by CBarca Mon May 23, 2016 5:13 am

I avoid saying that he is the greatest because I did not have the pleasure of watching Cafu, and therefore feel unqualified to make that judgement properly.
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Post by Lord Awesome Mon May 23, 2016 5:18 am

I kept forgetting you're actually younger than a lot of the posters here. And yet you seem more mature than most of the posters here.

Just proof that common sense in GL is not limited to age. Laughing
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Post by CBarca Mon May 23, 2016 5:31 am

Just don't say anything about Pep or I'll fanboy your ass
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Post by rincon Mon May 23, 2016 10:11 am

This is probably the most appropriate topics for the Right Back section Very Happy but in my opinion calling Alves one of the best RBs of all time is a huge stretch. Depending of course of how big the list is.

Also depending on how we rate things like prime vs longevity Alves could feature. Its a good discussion. I follow the Brazil NT really closely (my dad is a fan) and Alves has always been pretty poor. At Barca he works like magic but outside he gets exposed. You have to think about why Barca's RB in their most succesful era, with him being a key player and a superstar, doesn't start for his NT?

He is the best RB I've seen in terms of his link-up play with the midfield and forwards, he combines extremelly well, but IMO he is too incomplete to be among the best outside his generation. Maicon always out performed him for Brazil and was first choice. Then you have Lahm, Cafu, Zambrotta, Maldini, R. Carlos, etc. And thats just players that actually played at the same time as him.
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Post by eelir Mon May 23, 2016 10:57 am

rincon wrote:This is probably the most appropriate topics for the Right Back section Very Happy but in my opinion calling Alves one of the best RBs of all time is a huge stretch. Depending of course of how big the list is.

Also depending on how we rate things like prime vs longevity Alves could feature. Its a good discussion. I follow the Brazil NT really closely (my dad is a fan) and Alves has always been pretty poor. At Barca he works like magic but outside he gets exposed. You have to think about why Barca's RB in their most succesful era, with him being a key player and a superstar, doesn't start for his NT?

He is the best RB I've seen in terms of his link-up play with the midfield and forwards, he combines extremelly well, but IMO he is too incomplete to be among the best outside his generation. Maicon always out performed him for Brazil and was first choice. Then you have Lahm, Cafu, Zambrotta, Maldini, R. Carlos, etc. And thats just players that actually played at the same time as him.


IMO longevity is a huge factor when deciding for "the best ever" lists. I think he is one of the best as it is similar to CR7 situation. CR7 was rarely the best player of the season constantly, but he was among top three all the time, and this consistency and longevity puts him among the greats of all time (not the greatest). I mean I'd take prime Dinho anytime before CR7, but you got to be fair and consider who made a bigger impact constantly. It is similar with Alves at RB position. He has been among the top ones for so long that he has to be considered among the best RB of all time (not necessarily the greatest). Of course he has his shortcomings, but he also brought some new stuff to the game too.

Back on topic, this is a records topic and people should view it as that. We constantly have such topics here and no one complains about it. I simply do not see a reason why is this an issue with Alves?
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Post by farfan Mon May 23, 2016 11:39 am

Alves in his " prime "  was clearly inferior to Maicon ( who deservedly  started ahead of him  ) Laughing

Not even the greatest brazilian RB Post Cafu , yet he's in the conversation for the greatest of all time ?   b**** please...
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Post by futbol Mon May 23, 2016 12:00 pm

He's miles better than Maicon ever was. Maicon had 1 great season in a Mourinho park-the-bus scheme, got wrecked 1 season later by Bale (rofl) and then disappeared. Alves is bossing it at a high level for 10+ years now in proper football teams.

Maicon starting for Brazil doesn't prove anything. Since when is the judgement of Brazil NT coaches the ultimate truth in football? Remember Filipe Luis not even making the squad when he was the best leftback in the world in 13/14 or starting Fred and not nominating Diego Costa? rofl

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Post by farfan Mon May 23, 2016 12:26 pm

We're supposed to believe that you actually watched Maicon outside of the CL in 09-10 ? Laughing Maicon declining faster doesn't mean Alves was better prime for prime . hmm
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Post by rincon Mon May 23, 2016 1:18 pm

Prime Maicon is certainly better, thats why I said about prime vs longevity. Alves' long run is what can put him up there, but then guys Maldini or Cafu had insanely long careers at top level so there's that.
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Post by Valkyrja Mon May 23, 2016 1:47 pm

Maicon might be better than Alves, but sure as hell the latter is better than freaking Philipp Lahm Laughing

Seeing that overrated German in the same breath as the likes of Alves is cringe worthy :facepalm:
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Post by rincon Mon May 23, 2016 2:00 pm

Why? What is Lahm bad at? the guy has been doing everything right for 10 years. A defender doesn't have to be showy, he has to be consistent and there are few more consistent performers than Lahm.
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Post by farfan Mon May 23, 2016 2:23 pm

Lahm was actually better at defending than both Alves and Maicon . Laughing
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Post by Dark Knight Mon May 23, 2016 4:03 pm

futbol wrote:Without much research: Xavi, Iniesta, Gerd Müller, Paco Gento and the likes are probably the most decorated. Alves, Messi, Giggs just have inflated amount of Community Shield/Super Cup trophies. Giggs has 9 Community Shields and 4 League Cups, that's more than a third of his entire trophy haul. No one cares.


I agree.

BTW where does Alfredo Di Stefano stand in this list?
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Post by futbol Mon May 23, 2016 9:01 pm

farfan wrote:Lahm was actually better at defending than both Alves and Maicon . Laughing


Actually he wasn't. Lahm's hype stems from the fact that no one watches Bundesliga (even less so in pre Heynckes era). Laughing Alves was keeping prime Ronaldo and other elite wingers in his pocket in deep CL runs for years while Lahm was getting rekt by Altintop in Euro 2008. Laughing

One of those players who has insane reputation based on being part of a big club and one of the most successful national teams of all time but actually no one remembers any special Lahm performances against any elite wingers.

Lahm hype is on the same level as "Müller = German Pelé" thing while in reality he's a glorified Pedro.

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Post by CM Pep Tue May 24, 2016 10:55 am

Speaking of Pedro, a young Pedro completely owned Maicon iiirc. I can get defenders having a momentary lapse (happens to Alves also), but he got owned an entire 90 minutes.
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Post by Kaladin Tue May 24, 2016 11:01 am

futbol wrote:Lahm was getting rekt by Altintop in Euro 2008. Laughing



I remember that rofl

Remember when Madrid signed him Laughing

Mou Proud
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Post by Harmonica Tue May 24, 2016 2:18 pm

I wonder if Doctor Alves is going to be the next Zanetti, he probably has physique to do it. hmm
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