I see the title dangerously prepared for X , Y, Z etc

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Andrew
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Post by Robespierre Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:47 pm

So :

Bundesliga 2015-2016: Bayern Munchen
Bundesliga 2016-2017: Bayern Munchen
Bundesliga 2017-2018: Bayern Munchen
Bundesliga 2018-2019: Bayern Munchen
Bundesliga 2019-2020: Bayern Munchen
Bundesliga 2020-2021: Bayern Munchen
Bundesliga 2022-2023: Bayern Munchen
Bundesliga 2023-2024: Bayern Munchen
Bundesliga 2025-2026: Bayern Munchen


Ligue One 2015-2016: PSG
Ligue One 2016-2017: PSG
Ligue One 2017-2018: PSG
Ligue One  2018-2019: PSG
Ligue One 2019 2020 : PSG
Ligue One 2020-2021: PSG
Ligue One 2021-2022: PSG
Ligue One 2022-2023: PSG
Ligue One 2023-2024 : PSG
Ligue One 2024-2025 : PSG
Ligue One 2025-2026 : PSG

Serie A 2015-2016: Juventus
Serie A 2015-2016: Juventus
Serie A 2017-2018 : Juventus
Serie A 2018-2019 : Juventus
Serie A 2019-2020 : Juventus
Serie A 2020-2021: Juventus
Serie A 2021-2022: Juventus
Serie A 2022-2023: Juventus
Serie A 2023-2024 : Juventus
Serie A 2024-2025 : Juventus
Serie A 2025-2026 : Juventus

Premier League = the only exception . But Just 1 !

Liga 2015-2016 - 2025 - 2026 : Just a matter of Barca and Real.
Atletico will end.
There were years of Deportivo and Valencia...
Meanwhile the ppl at Camp Nou not even celebrates the goals anymore. Because it's expected. They act like if they are at theater. An amazing theatrical representation.
They can even experiment new type of penalty kicks.
This football is not balanced. Real and Barca walk in their Liga most number of matches.

Is the football became extremely boring and expected sport ?
Is it a sport basically dead ?
My idea is that the great CL born in 1999-2000 , destroying the other 2 European Cups has created a great gap , and the FFP has fossilized the differeces.
Creating a real status quo in European leagues.
For example Juventus has the double of revenes than the 2nd in Serie A .
PSG, Bayern , Barca-Real , we know it
Football is never been this.
Even in Buindesliga, despite Bayern has often monopolized, you could see anyone winning their league in last 20 years. Kaiserslautern like the German Leicester .... Borussia, Stuttgart, Wolfsburg, Bremen , etc Basically everyone except Schalke 04, and just because Schalke 04 got the greatest bottle job ever in 2000-2001.. otherwise even them.

How can you change this and avoiding 10+ years of written leagues ?
Most number of leagues are decided in December. And even when they are not , then the expected team to win it, it gets the victory.

First Proposal :

It's time to bring down the system and creating the European Superleague?

Basically it's time to send in the attic the leagues, because the football is dead, and carrying out a Revolutionary decision ?

Or what'd be your solution ?

Salary Cup ?

Or do you think it is just matter of cycles, and we'll see the Monaco ffs, the Valencia again , the Borussia and Bremen .. and there is not a status quo


Time to change the football. Time to change the sistem.
Goallegacy, over to you.

I see the title dangerously prepared for X  , Y, Z etc 408549-fifa-99-playstation-screenshot-european-dream-league

Proud
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Post by farfan Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:52 pm

I always maintained that actual " financial fair play " would be implementing a salary cap and a set transfer budget across the board . Laughing
But of course UEFA's version is more concerned about increasing the gap and keeping the little guy down than actual fair play.
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Post by Kaladin Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:56 am

Very interesting topic, and i agree with most of what has been said. FFP is to just stop the nouveau riche clubs and maintain the status quo, personally I think UEFA should be worried about clubs with huge debt. FFP punishes owners like City putting money into football while the Glazers can load United with debt and take money out of United and get away scot free.

Another thing is the purpose of FFP (or what people think is the purpose), is it to level the competition between clubs or is it to stop clubs from going bankrupt? Its certainly not the former, and if its the latter, then where was FFP when Parma went south?

If their is one flaw with FFP, its that it makes it incredibly difficult, if not impossible, for smaller clubs to reach the levels of Real, Barca, Bayern, etc

The general idea behind it is fine in principle, clubs must break even. However, i think could have been better enforced.

@farfarce Isnt a salary cap illegal in the EU? Nevermind enforcing it into into multiple countries with different legal/politcal systems.
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Post by farfan Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:12 am

The rugby super league has a salary cap . hmm
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Post by fatman123 Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:17 am

I've always seen FFP as something set up to stop clubs getting into a financial mess more than something to keep a level financial playing field
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Post by Bellabong Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:06 am

fatman123 wrote:I've always seen FFP as something set up to stop clubs getting into a financial mess more than something to keep a level financial playing field


You don't need to interpret it that way, that's its original purpose.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:23 pm

Been saying this for ages lol, sport as a whole is very boring other than the end of the CL. Otherwise it's all the same old shit.

Playoffs the thread :coffee:
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:44 pm

Yeah it is pretty much like that, aside from big CL games I just watch my Juve games, which I always enjoy but aside from that meh.


Having said that, it would be stupid if the teams with the best squads, managers, facilities and financial power didn't consistently overpower 'lesser' teams. That would make no sense really. That's how the world works.
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Post by Valkyrja Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:44 pm

There's a big difference between now and 15-20 years ago. Money plays the biggest part. in the 90s you had the best players around divided in different teams/leagues . Batistuta is one of the greatest 9s ever, and spend his prime at Fiorentina, a good team but not a top one from Italy. Nowadays it's impossible. A player like that would have been poached by Europe's top 5 after 1 season
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Post by juvealbanian Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:22 pm

Let's just all hope Robes "predictions" are true Very Happy
We got Serie A for the next 10 years ♥️
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Post by Katy Perry Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:09 am

I don't understand the purpose of this thread. Is this supposed to raise awareness that the teams with the most money and with the wisest investment of said money in a certain nation is more likely to win the league?
I don't think there's an alternative to this system. It's always been like this.

There have been some exception when some gems in a playing/coaching/managerial position goes unnoticed from the powerhouse teams and when said powerhouses have a bad season, like the one you listed and more recently Dortmund, Atletico, Montpellier,  and now Leicester but what happens after that is that they get their best players or coach snatched by a team with more financial power.

Do you think that Inter in 06-10 dominated the Serie A without having more money than anybody else? Why do you think Juventus won 10 scudetti's more than anyone else in the 20th century? And Berlusconi's Milan won 5 CLs in 20 years while now they are midtable? And Real has more CLs and Ligas than anyone in both competitions's history?
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Post by DeviAngel Thu Feb 18, 2016 4:50 am

I want to see some kind of control of the teams that overspend like PSG, RM etc but can you blame them? The people invest and get results because they have money.

IF our owners want to compete then they should invest simple as that.

Its like blaming someone for buying a Ferrari because he had money while you drive Fiat Bravo Smile
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Post by farfan Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:12 am

Well , measures can be taken to level the playing field .

The NBA awards the first draft pick to the shittiest teams in the league for example . Laughing
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Post by sportsczy Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:21 am

farfan wrote:Well , measures can be taken to level the playing field .

The NBA awards the first draft pick to the shittiest teams in the league for example . Laughing

And everyone has the same salary envelope to spend since there's a salary cap unless it's players that are already on the team (they allow you to go over the cap to extend contracts for those). They also cap salaries for players in their first 4 years you're in the NBA if they're drafted and they have no choice but to accept the team's offer in the first 4 years. Etc. Etc.

That requires the players to unionize across Europe and the owners of every club accept a "commissioner"to negotiate on their behalf. It will never happen. It's not a franchise model in Europe while it is in the USA for starters...
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Post by Bellabong Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:18 am

Salary caps will never work because football isn't played in just one country.

If one don't understand why that's a problem then don't even bother talking about salary caps.

There are solutions but like democracy any other option would piss even more people off than the current system.

Super League? Who decides who gets to play in it or not and more importantly who gets to stay?


And If you really believe that football is about the titles and who wins the league then you kinda missed the point of it all.
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Post by Adit Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:26 am

The problem is EPL is going to be so far away to become uncontested richest league and that means all other leagues will not be able to hold onto their best players.

Simple economics tells that with out govt restriction there is always scope for atleast two companies for same product. That means one more league can survive. La Liga believes they can become that second league which explains why LFP and Tebas is against a super league. They thinks they can survive in long run and super league won't benefit them and they are probably right. They have the head start and has more growth potential than any other league bar EPL.

Problem is for the other three leagues. Bundesliga, Series A and Ligue 1. They are currently below in the market share and while they are going to improve their numbers the other two leagues are going to improve their numbers even more making them basically feeder leagues. It's not just about revenue, it's about making more revenue than the competition.

It's no wonder Ruminigge (spelling) has been making pro super league pressers lately. Bayern and the top Bundesliga clubs will benefit more financially by that than being part of Bundesliga. Super league means Bayern will be earning more than any other club in the world due to their already top marketing and stadium revenue.

Real problem is for series A clubs. German clubs atleast have rich internal market. What is positive about series A revenue? Extremely poor internal revenue from stadium, Financially unable to up their internal TV revenue bcz of economy of Italy and most important non existent over seas rights.Unlike Germany they don't even have an internal market to back them.

By 2025 Bellerin will be making statements like Hillovic has Arsenal DNA Proud

The wheel is going to turn.






this forum (rofl)
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Post by Ion Creanga Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:30 am

Phritz wrote:Salary caps will never work because football isn't played in just one country.

If one don't understand why that's a problem then don't even bother talking about salary caps.

There are solutions but like democracy any other option would piss even more people off than the current system.

Super League? Who decides who gets to play in it or not and more importantly who gets to stay?


And If you really believe that football is about the titles and who wins the league then you kinda missed the point of it all.


spoiler:
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Post by Andrew Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:49 am

Katy Perry wrote:I don't understand the purpose of this thread. Is this supposed to raise awareness that the teams with the most money and with the wisest investment of said money in a certain nation is more likely to win the league?
I don't think there's an alternative to this system. It's always been like this.


There have been some exception when some gems in a playing/coaching/managerial position goes unnoticed from the powerhouse teams and when said powerhouses have a bad season, like the one you listed and more recently Dortmund, Atletico, Montpellier,  and now Leicester but what happens after that is that they get their best players or coach snatched by a team with more financial power.

Do you think that Inter in 06-10 dominated the Serie A without having more money than anybody else? Why do you think Juventus won 10 scudetti's more than anyone else in the 20th century? And Berlusconi's Milan won 5 CLs in 20 years while now they are midtable? And Real has more CLs and Ligas than anyone in both competitions's history?

Great post as always mate. Couldn't agree more.

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Post by Andrew Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:58 am

Also I would like to add that a few months back when we were struggling in the mid-table while you guys were mocking us and Fiorentina, Napoli, Inter, Roma topped the table at some point during the season, a lot of people were saying how Serie A is more balanced and the gap between Juventus and the rest of the teams isn't existent now and this and that. Why this change all of the sudden ?

Also Juventus hasn't won the league yet, we are just a point ahead and injuries + C.L could cost us, what if Napoli manages to win it ? Will it then be balanced again ? Leicester hasn't won the league either, what if they don't win it at the end, will PL be unbalanced like all the other leagues ?

I honestly don't get it. Perhaps it's disappointment in your teams that caused this.

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Post by Robespierre Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:25 am

This because Juve are definitely stronger than the rest that they can pernitt a false start for the whole first half because they have the means to recuperate this with a streak of 20 wins in a row , and it is not just a way of sayjng.  It is what it is happening.  Is it a normal thing ? Of corse a juve fan doesn ' t care about it , a  neutral must reflect instead.
Or is it a case we are watching so many  football broken records in last 10 years.?
 Getting  a treble now is not difficult like in 80s- 90 years. ( we got it in 2010 , so it is an unbiased opinion).
If I was a child in 2000s I don't know if I 'd follow this sport , became so expected . Even the CL is matter of few clubs, visibile already in semi - finals.
In my first CL  memories Borussia won it and Nantes in semi final.
I don't know if I ' d follow this sport because my passion is heritage of a football that there is no anymore , now.
And it has nothing to do with disappointment given by my team during last years etc lol I have lived worst periods as fan when the victory was an obsession, I won everything 5 years ago.
It has to do with this football.
I haven't the truth in pocket though,  it is just my thought.
For me football became the most boring sport ever and the system must be demolished now , even available to melt the leagues for a superleague if the alternative is to look this Old stor for 20 years in a row ......for you the football is okay it is just cycles..
Anyway , and I conclude with it , it is not a case if Agnelli and Rummenigge are the first men to talk about the need of Superleague.
Even them .. despite on paper ..haven't interests to change the system .
Simply this " sing-song " is counterproductive also for big teams .
And infact if we will get an epocal change in future, it will be because some clubs got tired to way in this way more than others tired to be useless.
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Post by Andrew Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:37 am

I get your point Robes but I'm afraid that even with the Superleague formed there will always be a couple of teams that will dominate it.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:21 pm

Andrew_p wrote:I get your point Robes but I'm afraid that even with the Superleague formed there will always be a couple of teams that will dominate it.


Not if you do it by pure knockout round they won't, which is why various different teams used to win the European Cup. The current format gives a huge advantage to the best teams.

Anyway Super League isn't the answer to me, playoffs has always been the answer for leagues. Just have the  top 8 teams face each other in a KO tournament and the team who wins it all takes the trophy.

Sometimes the big favourite will win of course but not always, as of right now the sport is not only boring but completely imbalanced in favour of the big teams in each league and not really fair to the point it shits on the very idea of the word " sport ".

If we go across each of the major 5 leagues, in the last decade the gap between the best and the rest is so far apart compared to any other sport it's bordering on pointless.

To the point where most teams are just making up the numbers and nothing else? where's the sport in that? Something needs to change IMO, but it won't because that would mean the big teams giving up their ridiculously historic advantage.

Also before anyone says this, i'm not saying all this because of Newcastle as we wouldn't qualify for anything anyway. Laughing
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Post by farfan Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:34 pm

Phritz wrote:


And If you really believe that football is about the titles and who wins the league then you kinda missed the point of it all.


Yeah, to hell with actual competition in a sport .
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Post by juvealbanian Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:20 pm

Robes point is that he wants top teams Real,Barca,Juve,Bayern etc to play on their own league (Superleague) while his dear Inter starts doiminating the LesserLeague (now Serie A)
He's and other interisti are ready to accept Juve are on another level just to get away from a strong opponent.Don't buy this cheap diplomacy guys,they wanna win it underground again


On a serious not I don't think SL is gonna be successful cuz there will be other teams to dominate it again.The problem is with the quality of players,compared to late 90's now we have always less skilled players and the few tgat are really top talent will end up in top and reach teams.Others will be left with mediocre or old players.
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:21 pm

I wouldn't want a super league. The best part about football for me is those handful of MASSIVE games every Year that are a cut above the rest.

If every game was 2 huge teams going at it, it would lose a lot of hype. Too much of a good thing etc etc
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