CBarca wrote:

Donuts wrote:I agree mourinho isn't a great longterm coach but he is great on getting a team back on the map though, i don't follow much of utd but isn't that what they need?
does his ability to rise a club outweigh the state he leaves the club?

Exactly what club has he risen? He's had incredible amounts of cash and good squads no matter where he's gone. What United need is a manager who has a long term vision who can set the club up for success in forthcoming years. Exactly what is so good if United get back into the top 4 for a couple years with Mourinho if he leaves a team in shambles and they drop right back out again? This is assuming Mourinho can get United in the top 4 a couple times, of course.

You guys act like Mourinho enables short term success and that short term success enables long term success. Where exactly has this ever happened in his career?

And that's why it's short sighted

so much bullshit

at inter his net spend was a few millions. at porto the same.

This whole thing proves that football hasn't evolved as much as one would've liked. It's a closed circle with the same people being fired from one place and hired into another. Then hired into the same place they were fired from in the beginning. Everything rotates among the same people basically, and clubs have to make do with whatever/whoever is available. And as a result, their standards start plummeting so fast, and before you know it, you end up with guys like Martino, Rafa and LVG in the dugouts.

Valkyrja wrote:

CBarca wrote:

Donuts wrote:I agree mourinho isn't a great longterm coach but he is great on getting a team back on the map though, i don't follow much of utd but isn't that what they need?
does his ability to rise a club outweigh the state he leaves the club?

Exactly what club has he risen? He's had incredible amounts of cash and good squads no matter where he's gone. What United need is a manager who has a long term vision who can set the club up for success in forthcoming years. Exactly what is so good if United get back into the top 4 for a couple years with Mourinho if he leaves a team in shambles and they drop right back out again? This is assuming Mourinho can get United in the top 4 a couple times, of course.

You guys act like Mourinho enables short term success and that short term success enables long term success. Where exactly has this ever happened in his career?

And that's why it's short sighted

so much bullshit

at inter his net spend was a few millions

Dont know what you're on about.He inherited a 3 time scudetto winning team that only needed a few tweaks to take them to the next level.
Doesnt matter how much money he spent,fact of the matter is he took over consistent winning team whose next objective was to win a CL.

CBarca wrote:If you want to ignore the context of the conversation you two may have a point to make. It would be a bad one but a fair one nonetheless.

However, Donuts was talking about "rising" a club. To me, that would indicate that someone takes the club to a higher status than they previously were at--however, I think there is a caveat. Does that person leave that club in a good position to continue that success, or does that success in the short term ruin the team/club?

And that's a big difference in Guardiola and Mourinho. Nobody doubts Mou's ability to win trophies, he's been proven at that anywhere he goes. Does he truly "rise" a club? In the first sense, yes, but he doesn't leave them in a good state, this is proven. Guardiola on the other hand is very proactive about promoting youth, integrating them into the team, establishing a philosophy the team can play by (though he has shown to be versatile at Bayern) and he left Barca in an amazing place to continue their success and the same thing will happen at Bayern. He will do so with Manchester City, as well.

Mourinho on the other hand has been a great short term manager but we've all seen what happens as he leaves. That to me is not what United need and why I do think it would be a mistake to hire him, and it is also the same point that makes your comments out of context and nonsensical.

Lets look at the context a bit more then.


He made Porto a CL winning side. When was the last time a club of that size won a CL? ,It is a huge huge huge achievement. Porto isnt a rich club, they develops players and sells them,thats how they survive. They will sell any good player they have at the first big offer that comes. They dont have any continuity because thats what they are as a club,a feeder club. Which coach was going to win CL with Porto any way? ...Mourinho achieved a rare feet with them.


He made chelsea the power house they are now. Lets not forget his core players stayed there for many years even after he left. Even the their CL win was some what connected to him because he made them hard to beat side.You want a club he elevated? Chelsea.


He did exactly what he was asked to do at Inter Milan. Moratti wanted to get a few good years out of that aging squad and Mourinho did exactly that. Moratti no more wanted to invest in inter Milan due to FFP and also due to his financial problems so he wasnt going to improve the team further. Which exactly why no matter how many managers came after Mourinho they couldnt get anything out of that Finished squad. If anything Inter Milan management had no money to spend and build on their success. how is that Mourinho's fault? ,where was the huge money he spent? ...club called it a day,nothing to do with manager.


At Real Madrid, he made us much better from that dark ages of 2009.His major transfers was right to the point and has a huge hand in ancelotti's winning team. He made Ramos a CB, Integrated Varane,made Marcelo a much better LB,Integrated Benzema,Brought Di Maria and Modric. Tried to push out a finished casillas. Least and not least he made Real Madrid relevant in CL again.Won the only league they have won in years.How is that not improving a team.He had to leave because of politics...finished Casillas played games against him and Ronaldo didnt want to track back so that also played a part ( just like it played its part in Benitez's sacking).If anything he couldnt continue because of the politics and player power,blame the club for that.

S wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:

CBarca wrote:


Exactly what club has he risen? He's had incredible amounts of cash and good squads no matter where he's gone. What United need is a manager who has a long term vision who can set the club up for success in forthcoming years. Exactly what is so good if United get back into the top 4 for a couple years with Mourinho if he leaves a team in shambles and they drop right back out again? This is assuming Mourinho can get United in the top 4 a couple times, of course.

You guys act like Mourinho enables short term success and that short term success enables long term success. Where exactly has this ever happened in his career?

And that's why it's short sighted

so much bullshit

at inter his net spend was a few millions

Dont know what you're on about.He inherited a 3 time scudetto winning team that only needed a few tweaks to take them to the next level.
Doesnt matter how much money he spent,fact of the matter is he took over consistent winning team whose next objective was to win a CL.

He is right about the money part. His net spent is very few during his time at Inter.

He did exactly what he was asked to do with that Aging squad. Won the treble.

Further beyond they needed investment ,that never came from Moratti.

Adit wrote:

S wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:



so much bullshit

at inter his net spend was a few millions

Dont know what you're on about.He inherited a 3 time scudetto winning team that only needed a few tweaks to take them to the next level.
Doesnt matter how much money he spent,fact of the matter is he took over consistent winning team whose next objective was to win a CL.

He is right about the money part. His net spent is very few during his time at Inter.

He did exactly what he was asked to do with that Aging squad. Won the treble.

Further beyond they needed investment ,that never came from Moratti.

Ageing squad

Milito 29,Motta 27,Cambiasso 29,Lucio 31,Samuel 31,Sneijder 25,Eto'o 28,Maicon 28.Most of the players in their prime and who were key players for them.


Previous season he bought Mancini and Quaresma who both were giant big money flops.So lets stop with this he dint have money or he worked with little money.

What he managed to do at Inter was incredible in terms of winning the CL but the foundation was already there before he even took over the job and he built on it.
Its nothing different to when Pep agreed to join Bayern in January 2013.

mourinho isn't a bad coach. he has two problems; sometimes his methods and 'us against the world' ideals get exhausting on players who may just want to play, his tendency to become a cult of personality and throw his team under the bus in times of hardship....i had little problem with his focus on defense because for over 20 years, even with hierro and sanchis, our defense was never really feared....i'd get a bit upset when he'd choose to set up defensively at home against a team like gijon though

one thing i admire is the mental edge he can bring. forget the round of 16. for a long time, we seriously flopped in the spanish cup; granted its not as big as the league or ucl, but losing to union, alcarcon, 6-1 to zaragoza, valladolid etc...he threw that lazy mentality out...and sometimes i wonder maybe that's what turned us into scrub killers, but hey, its better than losing to them.

united have little choice in this matter. this is largely a pr move as it is a coaching one, considering city, chelsea are likely to stock up, and their fans see them as lagging behind

S wrote:

Adit wrote:

S wrote:


Dont know what you're on about.He inherited a 3 time scudetto winning team that only needed a few tweaks to take them to the next level.
Doesnt matter how much money he spent,fact of the matter is he took over consistent winning team whose next objective was to win a CL.

He is right about the money part. His net spent is very few during his time at Inter.

He did exactly what he was asked to do with that Aging squad. Won the treble.

Further beyond they needed investment ,that never came from Moratti.

Ageing squad

Milito 29,Motta 27,Cambiasso 29,Lucio 31,Samuel 32,Sneijder 25,Eto'o 28,Maicon 28.Most of the players in their prime and who were key players for them.

Dat ageing squad.

Previous season he bought Mancini and Quaresma for who both were giant big money flops.So lets stop with this he dint have money or he worked with little money.

What he managed to do at Inter was incredible in terms of winning the CL but the foundation was already there before he even took over the job and he built on it.
Its nothing different to when Pep agreed to join Bayern in January 2013.

That isnt aging squad?

I forgot you are a serie A fan, Marchisio when he was 27 was considered a youngster.

Their Average age of first 11 was close to 30, probably over 30 if you add Zanetti who was a starter in the second season. How is that not an aging squad?

Every managers have flops, but he didnt have unlimited budget as some says. He also had some tops like Etoo . His net spent is what matters and that was few millions.

When Pep took over Bayern already won CL and were 3 times CL finalists in 5 year span. When was the last time Inter saw CL semi final before Mourinho came? yeah 2003. That is their biggest achievement in European football in a long time, a semi final.

Comparable indeed

@ S, i think its a bit different. that inter team could beat anyone in serie a at that time with or without mourinho. but they had no business winning the ucl. if mancini had that team, they won't have handled any of those teams remaining in the semis...hell they'd probably not even have made the semis. now i know that's all hypothetical, but i'm just going off mancini's serie a three-peat record.

its similar to guardiola and bayern because they both inherited squads that were plundering the league for talent. different because, one squad didn't have any euro pedigree, the other did....before inter's treble, they never even reached a final. bayern had gone to two and won one recently prior to guardiola.

but besides mourinho, his fan-boys and family, nobody would have bragged about his inter stint if he didn't win ucl....i mean with calciopoli and inter signing everyone in the league, it was expected. the ucl with that team, and ALSO the opponents around, it was a huge coup

Inter signing everyone in the league or maybe we  signed Miilito and Motta  others Felipe Melo and Diego (50 overall there is a reason why S has that sig ) , other overpayed a finished Ronaldinho or Huntelaar etc
Anyway how many Liga has won Real Madrid in last 8 years? One really ? Curious to know who was the coach to get the only victory

and let's be honest...that inter team was actually very ugly to look at. the only uglier team to have won in the ten years prior to that was liverpool...even porto with deco maniche and their striker derlei (Wonder what happened to him) had some 'must see tv' appeal. inter with workhorses (sneijder was good though) and milito and eto'o up front wasn't a team that at the start of the season anyone looked at as favorites...

it was an exceptional achievement, mancine didn't pull it off a year ago, and probably would not have. by the way, despite my frustration with mourinho in his last year at madrid, i thank him for that win.....barcelona were extremely obsessed with winning the champions league in our backyard, i was extremely disgusted by how obsessed they were about it....would have been gut wrenching

Robespierre wrote:Inter signing everyone in the league or maybe we  signed Miilito and Motta  others Felipe Melo and Diego (50 overall there is a reason why S has that sig ) , other overpayed a finished Ronaldinho or Huntelaar etc
Anyway how many Liga has won Real Madrid in last 8 years? One really ? Curious to know who was the coach to get the only victory

to be fair, there weren't many players in the league inter could have gone for at the time. but u also got mancini from roma who were second- but won't have won regardless even if they kept him; u also got pandev i believe (i remember one free kick mourinho asked him to take and he scored). ...and when i said signing everyone, i meant starting from roberto mancini's era. in that sense its similar to pep and bayern...mourinho winning another league title won't have been special; as far as europe is concerned, extremely different. mou's inter were workhorses and underdogs; pep's bayern had reached the mountain before him and won, and some of them even got a world cup after him...so more impressed with mourinho's inter stint than pep's bayern; even if they do win the ucl

Adit wrote:

S wrote:

Adit wrote:


He is right about the money part. His net spent is very few during his time at Inter.

He did exactly what he was asked to do with that Aging squad. Won the treble.

Further beyond they needed investment ,that never came from Moratti.

Ageing squad

Milito 29,Motta 27,Cambiasso 29,Lucio 31,Samuel 32,Sneijder 25,Eto'o 28,Maicon 28.Most of the players in their prime and who were key players for them.

Dat ageing squad.

Previous season he bought Mancini and Quaresma for who both were giant big money flops.So lets stop with this he dint have money or he worked with little money.

What he managed to do at Inter was incredible in terms of winning the CL but the foundation was already there before he even took over the job and he built on it.
Its nothing different to when Pep agreed to join Bayern in January 2013.

That isnt aging squad?

I forgot you are a serie A fan, Marchisio when he was 27 was considered a youngster.

Their Average age of first 11 was close to 30, probably over 30 if you add Zanetti who was a starter in the second season. How is that not an aging squad?

Every managers have flops, but he didnt have unlimited budget as some says. He also had some tops like Etoo . His net spent is what matters and that was few millions.

When Pep took over Bayern already won CL and were 3 times CL finalists in 5 year span. When was the last time Inter saw CL semi final before Mourinho came?  yeah 2003. That is their biggest achievement in European football in a long time, a semi final.

Comparable indeed

More than age its more to do with the fact that most of their players were in the form of their lives.

Sneijder,Milito,Maicon,Cambiasso,Motta etc.It just made it that much easier for him.What he managed to do was remove the choking mentality in the team but that Inter squad even under Mancini always had the potential to win CL or atleast go far in that period.

He took over by far the best squad in the league.They only needed a creative player to compete for CL and they got it in Sneijder.

I am not undermining his achievements.He was among the best managers at the time but lets stop pretending like its some kind of fairytale achievement like winning CL with Nottingham Forest or something.

And people talking about Mourinho making Chelsea a European powerhouse, but dint Chelsea make a semi-final before he took over ? Do remember that Monaco-Chelsea game.

And to think his best achievement for Chelsea in Europe is...wait..making the semis

Chelsea were going to win the league anyway, they finished 2nd the season before with Cech and Robben already agreed and signed.

S wrote:

Adit wrote:

S wrote:


Ageing squad

Milito 29,Motta 27,Cambiasso 29,Lucio 31,Samuel 32,Sneijder 25,Eto'o 28,Maicon 28.Most of the players in their prime and who were key players for them.

Dat ageing squad.

Previous season he bought Mancini and Quaresma for who both were giant big money flops.So lets stop with this he dint have money or he worked with little money.

What he managed to do at Inter was incredible in terms of winning the CL but the foundation was already there before he even took over the job and he built on it.
Its nothing different to when Pep agreed to join Bayern in January 2013.

That isnt aging squad?

I forgot you are a serie A fan, Marchisio when he was 27 was considered a youngster.

Their Average age of first 11 was close to 30, probably over 30 if you add Zanetti who was a starter in the second season. How is that not an aging squad?

Every managers have flops, but he didnt have unlimited budget as some says. He also had some tops like Etoo . His net spent is what matters and that was few millions.

When Pep took over Bayern already won CL and were 3 times CL finalists in 5 year span. When was the last time Inter saw CL semi final before Mourinho came?  yeah 2003. That is their biggest achievement in European football in a long time, a semi final.

Comparable indeed

More than age its more to do with the fact that most of their players were in the form of their lives.

Sneijder,Milito,Maicon,Cambiasso,Motta etc.It just made it that much easier for him.What he managed to do was remove the choking mentality in the team but that Inter squad even under Mancini always had the potential to win CL or atleast go far in that period.

He took over by far the best squad in the league.They only needed a creative player to compete for CL and they got it in Sneijder.

I am not undermining his achievements.He was among the best managers at the time but lets stop pretending like its some kind of fairytale achievement like winning CL with Nottingham Forest or something.

Yes it's true,  I agree about it.
Mancini was incredibly underachiever under us in Europe.
Inter '06-'07 (that of 17 wins in a row in Serie A ) was the best Inter team of Inter cycle after that '09-'10 of course.
It had players iin their prime, for example it had the last great Crespo seen (who saw Crespo , knows how much he was great . That year Crespo scored more than Ibrahiimovic , he declined badly he year then .. it's typical of Argentinian CFs, they collapse - suddenly - when they'are old 33-34 .. ffs I still remind Batistuta, he was immense till 2002 , in '02-'03 he looked like a poor man's Maniero .. Milito had  a similar thing too ) , Stankovic also had a similar season , Materazzi had his best year in career, probably for WC's euphoria.. . then it had Cambiasso, Vieira , Maicon etc in their prime ..
Some underrated that team despite 97 points and 17 in row because " it was got with no contest " ... but indeed that team was really great with prime great players.

... But we were knocked out in 16 rounds against Valencia for double tie , with Burdisso to play as DM
Sign of a weak mentality of Mancini in Europe.

I've always wondered what we could do it with another manager, I don't say Mourinho or Guardiola, but " just" with an Allegri

We were knocked out also under Mourinho at 16th round in his first year, but it was totally different.
We faced Manchester United, and we played a great match at Old Trafford - never seen under Mancini.

I've revalued the Mourinho's job at Madrid anyway.
He took a team who got knocked out from CL in 16th round  for 8 years in a row  (and we're talking about the Real Madrid. Taddei violated the Bernabeu) and made under him    3 semi-finals, 1 lost just in penalty kicks.
Won 1 Liga, in a nothingness period of Ligas for Real Madrid.
It must be revalued imo.
While the real disaster was this year under Chelsea, too bad to be true.

LVG:

“The last two months have been very difficult for my wife, my kids, my grandchildren and my friends to cope with,” he told reporters. “For me too, but I can cope.

"In the Netherlands they know I am too arrogant to doubt myself, but I also know that such a nonsense is being created about me.

"I do not believe that there is already a relationship between Jose Mourinho and Manchester United.”

Mou was at Dortmund game

meanwhile in Toronto Canada

Kristina   28m28 minutes ago
There is a group of Man Untd fans outside screaming "Jose Mourinho is not the answer" and asking me to create a fb page that says so #monday


my buddies girlfriend who works at facebook office in Toronto

jibers

This "sustained success" in modern football is a myth. Which contemporary top club manager has led his team to "sustained success"?

ExtremistEnigma wrote:This "sustained success" in modern football is a myth. Which contemporary top club manager has led his team to "sustained success"?

Simeone.

Lord Spencer wrote:

ExtremistEnigma wrote:This "sustained success" in modern football is a myth. Which contemporary top club manager has led his team to "sustained success"?

Simeone.

Ancelotti

simeone; wenger too, especially considering his cheapskate policies in the transfer market, coupled with the spendthrift  ways of his domestic rivals. its quite impressive how those two have done with little money spent in comparison to their rivals; especially simeone, who tool atleti out of the toilet. i'll throw klopp's 7 year dortmund run in there too, once again where he didn't have the most resources, and wolfsburg with grafite n dzeko, and later bayern (who bought his players) where his rivals

Art Morte wrote:

ExtremistEnigma wrote:This "sustained success" in modern football is a myth. Which contemporary top club manager has led his team to "sustained success"?

A lot of managers can do well with a good squad, but few can sustain that level once the squad needs revamping.

and i agree 100 percent with this...you think of how much ferguson was able to revamp that squad over and over again. they had some poor teams after becks' exit in 04, 05, 06 and then again some seasons before he retired, but he got the revamping process right on most occasions. it seems such attributes are ignored with preference for which coach wins a thousand trophies with the best teams

BREAKING: Jose Mourinho is set to be the next Manchester United manager (@DiMarzio)