Higuain vs Maradona at Napoli

changes nothing. even if they spent a gazillion pounds, there wasn't a gap between the teams financially and the talent was there at the top sides....i'd take someone battling the likes of matthaus costacurta than any of the scrub dms/ defenders that grace that league today...difference between "can't spend" and "won't spend"...and btw that city comparison is rubbish. don't bother posting your stats or cuts from magazines, i've heard that tune before on a bunch of your "player x isn't as great, so let's by default crown messi" threads....what's next? a "pele played against mechanics" thread? save it, stick to your giffs, and the assists to the guy who assisted the assist thread; that's actually very good for comic relief and humor on this forum

titosantill wrote:changes nothing. even if they spent a gazillion pounds, there wasn't a gap between the teams financially and the talent was there at the top sides....i'd take someone battling the likes of matthaus costacurta than any of the scrub dms/ defenders that grace that league today...difference between "can't spend" and "won't spend"...and btw that city comparison is rubbish. don't bother posting your stats or cuts from magazines, i've heard that tune before on a bunch of your "player x isn't as great, so let's by default crown messi" threads....what's next? a "pele played against mechanics" thread? save it, stick to your giffs, and the assists to the guy who assisted the assist thread; that's actually very good for comic relief and humor on this forum

You're not actually understanding this at all. It's relative comparison, to the team performance, so opponents doesn't really matter. It's the same if you win awful (on paper) opponent 1-0 scoring the goal or good (on paper) opponent 1-0 scoring the goal, because your whole team was better (on paper) in the latter, relatively. Individually it's the same, in relation to team performance and individual importance, which this thread is all about.

titosantill wrote:changes nothing. even if they spent a gazillion pounds, there wasn't a gap between the teams financially and the talent was there at the top sides....i'd take someone battling the likes of matthaus costacurta than any of the scrub dms/ defenders that grace that league today...difference between "can't spend" and "won't spend"...and btw that city comparison is rubbish. don't bother posting your stats or cuts from magazines, i've heard that tune before on a bunch of your "player x isn't as great, so let's by default crown messi" threads....what's next? a "pele played against mechanics" thread? save it, stick to your giffs, and the assists to the guy who assisted the assist thread; that's actually very good for comic relief and humor on this forum

Almost threw up laughing

jibers wrote:

titosantill wrote:changes nothing. even if they spent a gazillion pounds, there wasn't a gap between the teams financially and the talent was there at the top sides....i'd take someone battling the likes of matthaus costacurta than any of the scrub dms/ defenders that grace that league today...difference between "can't spend" and "won't spend"...and btw that city comparison is rubbish. don't bother posting your stats or cuts from magazines, i've heard that tune before on a bunch of your "player x isn't as great, so let's by default crown messi" threads....what's next? a "pele played against mechanics" thread? save it, stick to your giffs, and the assists to the guy who assisted the assist thread; that's actually very good for comic relief and humor on this forum

Almost threw up laughing

LMAO

the peculiarly fitting mixture of statistical 'objectivity' fixation and certified bat shit craziness never ceases to amaze me tbh.

Hapless_Hans wrote:the peculiarly fitting mixture of statistical 'objectivity' fixation and certified bat shit craziness never ceases to amaze me tbh.

That's just matter of perspective. New ideas have always been accused as crazy by conservative views. Views like earth isn't flat or center of universe, and you were burned in the middle ages.

"Am I or are the others crazy?" - Albert Einstein

And wtf is with that signature? You've some serious problems.

Atm against League 2-4 opponents (excl. penalties taken not won):

Maradona 86-87

2. Juventus W 1-3 (0+0), W 2-1 (0+1)
3. Inter D 0-0 (0+0), L 1-0 (0+0)
4. Verona D 0-0 (0+0), L 3-0 (0+0)

Total W-D-L, (G+A)/Team Goals
2-2-2 33% win, (0+1)/5 = 20%

Higuain 15-16

2. Juventus W 2-1 (1+1)
3. Fiorentina W 2-1 (1+0)
4. Inter W 2-1 (2+0)

Total W-D-L, (G+A)/Team Goals
3-0-0 100% win, (4+1)/6 = 83%

Harmonica wrote:
And wtf is with that signature? You've some serious problems.

Nothing wrong with acknowledgeing someone who has touched our life in many ways and made us believe in ourselves imo. I support Hans and his adoration of Justin Bieber.

Pirloisjesus wrote:

Harmonica wrote:
And wtf is with that signature? You've some serious problems.

Nothing wrong with  acknowledgeing someone who has touched our life in many ways and made us believe in ourselves imo. I support Hans and his adoration of Justin Bieber.

Slightly disturbing tbh.

I beliebe in beaver IMO

Isn't this comparison, based entirely on output, inherently flawed as Higuain is a 9 and Maradona an AM?

Good question BC.

Another question I have is this.
If Higuain is more influential and effective than Maradona as the stats do prove, how come he couldn't win a WC while Maradona could?

The answer has to be that Higuain had weaker teammates.

Just imagine what Maradona and Higuain could have achieved for Argentina together.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Isn't this comparison, based entirely on output, inherently flawed as Higuain is a 9 and Maradona an AM?

Yeah that's true, although AM should be involved in goal scoring, and more assisting than striker, which numbers also suggest. But it isn't completely balanced. If we added "involvement" as being part of attacking move of the goal, it would be better, and closer comparison.

I may still revisit the goals if I find time, and check "involvement".

Hapless_Hans wrote:Good question BC.

Another question I have is this.
If Higuain is more influential and effective than Maradona as the stats do prove, how come he couldn't win a WC while Maradona could?

The answer has to be that Higuain had weaker teammates.

Just imagine what Maradona and Higuain could have achieved for Argentina together.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Isn't this comparison, based entirely on output, inherently flawed as Higuain is a 9 and Maradona an AM?

Yup, yup and more yup. It also ended when Tito said Maradona won a league with Napoli while Higuain has not.

Harmonica wrote:

But here's Maradona against Mussi, Tassotti, Baresi, Costacurta, Maldini back line.



Higuain has never had that much space and time.

Damn, what an amateur offside trap

The Milan team of the late 80s and was known for implementing the offside trap regularly. That was just one of the few times it didn't work. Not sure how that takes away the fact that Serie A is stronger then, compared to now.

Baresi to raise the hand and the lineman trusted in him

Casciavit wrote:The Milan team of the late 80s and was known for implementing the offside trap regularly. That was just one of the few times it didn't work. Not sure how that takes away the fact that Serie A is stronger then, compared to now.

Exactly, I was about to say the same thing. I've noticed that many people are often saying that 80'-90's defense was much more stronger than today's but at the same time they'd say that forwards got a lot more space to do their thing.

Ion Creanga wrote:

Harmonica wrote:

But here's Maradona against Mussi, Tassotti, Baresi, Costacurta, Maldini back line.



Higuain has never had that much space and time.

Damn, what an amateur offside trap

You should see the stuff Madrid do.

Ion Creanga wrote:

Harmonica wrote:

But here's Maradona against Mussi, Tassotti, Baresi, Costacurta, Maldini back line.



Higuain has never had that much space and time.

Damn, what an amateur offside trap

Agreed imo , Bonucci and co do it better against Floro Flores and Pavoletti .

How can these scrubs fail to stop Maradona

wanna be Neuer

They failed one offside trap , what amateurs

Doc wrote:

Ion Creanga wrote:

Harmonica wrote:

But here's Maradona against Mussi, Tassotti, Baresi, Costacurta, Maldini back line.



Higuain has never had that much space and time.

Damn, what an amateur offside trap

You should see the stuff Madrid do.

Now Maldini comparing Ramos to himself begins to make sense.

You are on to something there Rups

Man that is quite embarrassing for a back line of Tassotti-Baresi-Castacurta-Maldini. Don't get to see their mistakes that often.

It's good that I rate Nesta as the greatest defender I've ever seen. Even above Baresi and Maldini.

Because Nesta didn't fail traps , or lose his man , or have shockers   . Every defender did , does and will do. That's legitimately your only hope of reaching such levels of defending , by failing and trying to get better next time. But yes good thing you rate Nesta above those who taught him a thing or two

Nesta was always great , yet it was next to Maldini he skyrocketed and he became the Nesta you remember . His positioning improved with Maldini leading the defense and tackled less and less , only when he absolutely had to . Also against set pieces and defending the box at crosses , again it was Maldini who organised the defense . He looked and was that great because Maldini read the game like he was watching it in replay and Nesta was able to deliver , both by ability and tactically he was extremely capable . You could beat them by force or skill , but not by accident or catching them off guard . Not when they felt like it . Usually it took something special , or great effort , to beat them.

And to reach that level of defensive norm , you must be beaten by the best to improve and get there. You think Nesta was better because you haven't seen something like that involving him.. yet , that's exactly how Baresi and Maldini and Billy e.t.c became so good. By having to defend against the likes of Maradona , for instance. That's not proof of how Nesta is any better than Baresi or Maldini and even Costacurta on his day , rather how these players reached the pinnacle of defensive ability playing against such opposition week in week out . Nesta learned a lot from Billy and Paolo and they were able to help him improve exactly because they got schooled to get there , by Maradona or other players.

Don't think he was better than Maldini , since Maldini was even in his less impressive days equally good and mostly played CB once age caught up with him , unless whenever NT or Milan played 3man backline . He was a LB for most of his career and still was at least as good as Nesta was at CB later on. And Nesta was indeed a worthy successor to Baresi , but i am not sure i would have him in front of Baresi as a pure defender . Baresi was also better with the ball at his feet , better in the air , much stronger and more nasty than Nesta ever was and was capable of any role , under any system at the back . Reading how the play unfolds , commanding the backline and calling traps , he was a master at it , for both NT and Milan . 1v1 he held his ground against anyone , and while it's also true for Nesta , Nesta surely was more exposed in his career , mainly due to injuries , since whenever he returned from injury, it took some time to reach optimal form again. Thankfully not many remember Milan-Arsenal in 07-08 , for example , couldn't stop Adebayor Then again , he was riddled with injuries that season too , so meh.. and in general lines , a terrible season for Milan , Nesta missing a lot of games that season hurt us quite back then.

As for the goal , i think GL could always use their brains a little . This happened just because of Maradona , not necessarily because they failed to react , or maybe executed it poorly. Maradona was simply better than that on the occasion , saw the opening half a second before they moved and luckily for him , his teammate delivered , so he beat it. Rossi or who the keeper is also gave the defenders no chance to at least try and catch up with him before an inevitable finish , since he abandoned his posts to do nothing . The fact that Maradona beat it , once out of who the fk knows how many times he failed against Sacchi's Milan , doesn't mean it was executed poorly. Can't stop everything , no matter who you are .

Frankly this gif shows 1 moment of the game , it barely shows what Maradona actually did the rest of the game. All in all i should stop bothering at this point , since most don't even understand what they're watching in this gif. Look very carefully how fast Maradona sees the opening , takes it and finishes his move , by taking a fkn header outside the area . He was probably scared shitless that they would come at him immediately , otherwise he would have dribbled the keeper for the lolz , or just control and finish it properly without risking it .

There's absolutely nothing embarrassing about this , if anything it shows how great Maradona was . Only thing that Milan could have done better was steal the ball before the through ball ,or then the keeper throw at him at Maradona for a red card. Overall positioning and speed of execution wasn't at all that bad as you blokes make it seem , then again most of you don't even get the difference. Can't play high offside trap that much deeper , can you ? They trusted in their ability and Maradona beat them at it , woosh . "embarrassing"

If that's embarrassing , then every single other backline at the time was simply trash , because they could barely even replicate what that backline managed countless times over and over again successfully .

TL;DR : Agreed imo , scrubs failing to stop Maradona

Dante wrote:Because Nesta didn't fail traps , or lose his man , or have shockers   . Every defender did , does and will do. That's legitimately your only hope of reaching such levels of defending , by failing and trying to get better next time. But yes good thing you rate Nesta above those who taught him a thing or two

Uefa Cup final 1998 and Lazio-Roma 1-5 were two matches where he was destroyed for example.