futbol

Lol, just as predicted.. But in the end, you are still comparing a 23 year old with a 35 year old player or in your specific case if u will, a 27 year old player to a 23 year old (from your highlights). Or, you mean in the next 12 years neymar wouldn't make a better pass than those or like those at least? Just Lol, or that neymar has never done a pass like that or done something dinho hasn't done? Lol.. Yeah, put neymar in that team and he'll win a world cup as well. Weather u agree or not dinho doesn't have anything on neymar well aside his physicality and like I said dinho was a better passer but then, neymar is a better scorer. U nitpick neymars world cup as if I can't as well nit pick all dinho's international tournaments (from 02 - 09) , lol.. So many if's well, the fact is that neymar didn't play against germany and he didn't also play against holland which brazil lost disgracefully without him. You say neymar was lucky to be injured? Lol, Well, in that case, wasn't dinho lucky to play alongside ronaldo and rivaldo and even prime kaka and prime adriano later on? Just lol worthy tbh... Anyway dinho is better now but isn't that to be expected after all?

Its like me bringing out some clips of one of neymar insane of the ball movements or a skill like his rainbow flicks for santos and say "hey, u see dinho could never do that in a million years, therefore I proclaim neymar better". Just poor tbh...
On an individual level they're bout equal, with dinho being slightly better but then again, its mainly down to his physicality as he could ward off defenders easily (like the gattuso case in particular), something neymar doesn't have based on his small stature, just like neymar would smoke dinho when it comes to top speed. Dinho is the better creator, but then again, neymar is the better scorer.

Ronaldinho changed Barca and was (2 time?) player of the year while doing it.

Neymar is fantastic, but he isn't the stand out for Barca, he may be in the future, but at present, he isn't.

It's obviously Ronaldinho, but it could change in the future.

Why does Soccer have to exaggerate every argument he makes?

Neymar was lucky to be injured? What the shit? He failed at last year's CA but he stepped up during the Confederation Cup. You can't seriously hold that WC injury against him.

In 02 it was the Ronaldo and Rivaldo show. Ronaldinho had some moments of brilliance but it was really just two R's that carried us offensively. Put Neymar in that team and we would have been even better.

Ronaldinho was better for Barcelona and also significantly more important. I'm not even a Neymar fan, but there's no need rewrite history and exaggerate everything to fit your arguments perfectly.

He was lucky to be injured because now it's spun as if Brazil got rekt because Brazil's talisman was missing. But the truth is Brazil would have gotten rekt regardless, Neymar was not going to prevent Brazil from conceding 7 goals and if he had played he would have been ridiculed for flopping like Messi in 2010. But he escaped that trashing and his intl. pedigree is still intact so he is very lucky. What's there not to understand? I'm not holding the injury against him. I'm merely stating how lucky he is that he escaped the biggest shame in Brazil NT history.

Ronaldinho was less important than Ronaldo and Rivaldo? So what? He was 22 at the time, no shame in being less important than 2 other GOATs. Without him you are still going out of the quarter finals against England. Besides, I'd argue Neymar is behind Suarez and Messi in importance for Barca as well and it's generally recognized like that judging by the last Best Player in Europe podium.

I'm not even saying Ronaldinho had a special intl. career. It was one of his weaknesses. It still trumps Neymar's Confetti Cup achievement. Statpadding in friendlies means squat. Long way to go for Neymar to be up there with Ronaldinho.

And once again I have to laugh at the stat comparisons. In Dinho's first season at Barca the team scored a total of 63 goals. Last seasons' Barca scored almost twice as many. Do the math how many more chances per game current Barca is creating than Barca from 10 years ago. 15 league goals out of 63 is more impressive than 23 league goals out of 110.

There isn't really anything Neymar is better at than Dinho except making runs to get at the end of chances but obviously he can still have a better career through consistency (just slightly improve on last season's level and keep it going for 5+ more seasons) just like Cristiano considering that Ronaldinho called it quits after winning 1 CL.

Would of been interesting to see Ronaldinho in the same Barca squads that Neymar has been in.

Same goes for Nerman in the Brazil squads that Ronaldinho played in.

Have to remember the quality of Barcelona prior to Ronaldinho arriving...it was our dark ages. He was part of the revival that has carried on to this day. On the other hand, I am pretty sure Barca could still be winning had they kept Alexis and just added Suarez. That's not to discredit Neymar, but the point is that the roles they are asked to serve, the team mates they played with, the tactics etc make this a tough discussion as there are so many different variables. Also have to look at the quality of the teams both faced. Barca was in rebuilding mode and back then a team like Valencia, Deportivo, Villarreal etc had legit killers and were tough as *bleep* (and also had the galacticos to worry about). Then you had the epic Milan defenses and Utd, the Invincibles etc during that era. Last year, bar Bayern and Madrid, the rest of the competition looked pertty weak or going through a transition period. I mean even Real Madrid looked primed to get picked off from the start of the knock out stages, while we had just added Suarez and were in full swing. That Barca Ronaldinho had was a hot mess trying to get it together, and his inspiration and play lead us to the top. AGAIN, not saying Neymar wouldn't of been able to do that in that same squad...all I'm saying is that I would of loved to see them swap roles and play in those squads the other one played in to see how things would of turned out.

Lucky for us, we got them both in blaugrana during there prime

Maybe Rivaldo and Neymar is a more accurate comparison?

Dinho at his peak was magical. IMHO he is the single most awesome player to play the game. Even Messi does not compare to him in terms of joy he brought watching him (not saying Dinho is better player than Messi at any point of his career). Neymar has all the ingredients to overpass Dinho, but I choose Dinho for now. Neymar has still some more games to prove himself.

Ronaldinho is a magician. Neymar is excellent till now.

Neymar is a baller but he's still got nothing on Dinho's magic. Maybe some day.

Can't compare as they play/ed in completely different sides.

Magic, while being fancy, is something to be left completely out of the question when comparing two footballers. Magic doesn't win games. The act of scoring 1 goal more than the opposition wins you games.

free_cat wrote:Magic, while being fancy, is something to be left completely out of the question when comparing two footballers. Magic doesn't win games. The act of scoring 1 goal more than the opposition wins you games.

so does a crucial dribble and final ball u cannot always score a goal from half line can u.

Pirloisjesus wrote:

free_cat wrote:Magic, while being fancy, is something to be left completely out of the question when comparing two footballers. Magic doesn't win games. The act of scoring 1 goal more than the opposition wins you games.

so does a crucial dribble and final ball u cannot always score a goal from half line can u.

I want to remember that I made a similar poll of Ronaldinho vs Messi TWICE and both times Ronaldinho won. The argument most of the time being that Ronaldinho was "magic" while Messi wasn't. Which is a bullshit argument, because magic doesn't necessarily helps you win a game, though it is fancy.

Ronaldinho did some magical elastico driblles, while Messi makes regular dribles.

Ronaldinho passed looking the other side, Messi passes looking where he passes.

Ronaldinho controlled with his back, Messi with his foot.

All this is magic but it doesn't help you win games if it can be done as effectively (or more) without the magic, as Messi does.

Same should apply when comparing Neymar to Ronaldinho.

Well I did tell u neymar isn't going to win this fight for above reasons same goes for messi vs ronaldinho. As said in my previous posts there is too much fog around ronaldinho and people's eyes always gets moist when you mention Zidane and him and it gets difficult to judge and assess them objectively without emotions getting better of them.
As for magic for me isn't showboating or making 5 star move magic for me is creating a goal outta nothing only with one final ball. If u remember the Pedro goal created by xavi with dat through ball that's magic for me.

Anyway, this is Ronaldinho's National Team career in a nut shell
*In competitive matches only

1.Eliminated from the U-21 South american youth championship in 99

(2 goals in 5 games)

2.Got disgraced and eliminated in the quater-final of the 06 world cup as the star player.

(0 goals and 1 assist in 5 games)

3.Group stage elimination in the 2003 confed-cup.

(0 goals and 0 assist in 3 games)

4.Lost in the 99 confed cup final.

(6 goals in 5 games)

5.Played a grand total of 40 mins in his career in the copa america 99.

(1 goal in copa career)

6.Eliminated in the quater-final of the 99 world youth championship.

(1 goal in 5 games)

7.Eliminated in the quarter-final of the 00 olympics

(1 goal in 4 games).

8.Eliminated in the semi-final of the 08 olympics.

(2 goals in 6 games)

9.World cup win in 02.

(2 goals, 1 assist in 6 games and a red card)

10.Confed cup win 05.

(2 goals and 1 assist in 5 games)

In his only successful tournaments as seeing in #5 #9 & #10 starting from 99 - 2005

1).In COPA 99, he played along side prime Ronaldo (possibly the best 9 of all time), prime Rivaldo, prime Denilson, prime Carlos (possibly the best left back of all time), prime Cafu (possibly the best right back of all time)

*Ronaldo was top scorer and Rivaldo best player of the tournament.

2).In WORLD CUP 02, he played along side Ronaldo and Rivaldo again.

*Ronaldo was top scorer of the tournament and both ronaldo and rivaldo were both best players of the competition.

3).In the 2005 CONFEDERATIONS CUP, he played along side prime kaka, prime adriano, and prime robinho.

*Adriano was best player and top scorer of that competition in 2005

4).06 WORLD CUP CONMEBOL qualifiers, he played alongside Ronaldo, Adriano, Kaka, Juninho, Robinho, Carlos, Emmerson
(though not all in their prime anymore but still better than anything brazil has as partners for neymar today).

*Ronaldo was top scorer with 10 goals

Now, just take a look at some of the calibers of players he's played along side all through his NT career (all in their prime at most points and as regular team mates).
*RONALDO was top scorer and best player in the 97 copa america and was also a 2 time world player of the year (even before and without ronaldinho)
*RIVALDO was already copa champion in 97 and would go on to win the world player of the year and balon d'or winner in 99 whilst being the competitions best player in copa 99 (before, during and after ronaldinho).
*ADRIANO was also best player and top scorer in the previous yeras copa america (without dinho)
*CARLOS arguably the best left back of all time and certainly for brazil.
*CAFU arguably the best right back defender of all time
*KAKA would also go on to be the 2007 world player of the year and a CL winner (All without ronaldinho).
*ROBINHO would go on to be the copa america best player and top scorer the following year in 07 (without ronaldinho)
My point here is that, ronaldinho's never dominated any tournament individually or have an excellent indidvidual tournament, his only brief successful stint all came as a result of playing along side insanely world class players, the ultimate big game players who are all time greats at their prime where he won collectively, something neymar has never had the luxury to enjoy for brazil, and even then ronaldinho failed miserably immediately these players became old/out of form and he was given the mantle to lead (world cup 06 in particular) and in cases where he didn't have them, he was totally shite in the real sense of the word shite!!!
Infact, dinho even performed worse than those old out of form players in anything. So there's that. Give Neymar those players to play alongside and Neymar will conquer the world again and again.

While this is Neymars NT career in detail
*in competitive matches only

1.Winner South american U-21 championship
(Neymar is top scorer and player of the tournament 9 goals & 3 assists in 7 games)

2.Winner FIFA CONFEDERATIONS CUP
(Neymar is voted player of the tournament and second top scorer with 4 goals & 3 assists in 5 games)

3.Finalist in the 2012 Olympics tournament
(Was voted player of the tournment 3 goals and 5 assists in 5 games)

4. Quater final elimination from the COPA AMERICA 2011
(2 goals in 3 games)

5.Quater final elimination from the '14 WORLD CUP
(4 goals & 1 assist in 5 games)

6.COPA AMERICA '15 Quater final elimination
(1 goal, 1 assist in 2 games and a red card)

Now, these where/are neymar's best team mates since that time, Fred, Oscar, Jo, Bernard, Terdelli, Dante, Willian, Firmino, Ramirez, Marquinhos, Pato, T. Silva, Fernandinho, Gustavo, Luiz, Henrique, Lucas, and Marcelo. How do u beat that? How is it not a miracle that brazil are still competing?
Now, compare that with Ronaldo, prime Rivaldo, prime Adriano, prime Roberto carlos, Cafu, Lucho, Emmerson, prime kaka, and having guys like Juninho, Ze roberto and prime Robinho as bench players?

U can see that while neymar is 23, he has played in 6 competitive tournaments and has done very excellently individually in each of them.
*23 goals and 13 assists in 27 games.
Among those, neymar was winner in 2, finalist in one (olympics), was injured in one (world cup), was suspended in one (copa america 15) and lost the copa 12.
Ronaldinho in contrast has participated in 10 tournaments, and aside the 99 confederations cup, dinho was never individually outstanding in any tournament he played in, even in his prime, as reflected in his poor statistic
(17 goals and 6 assists in 45 games).
His small success instead came collectively based on the kind of national team mates he played alongside with.

You should also take into consideration the fact that Ronaldinho came to Barca at 23, Neymar's age now.

Oh, if we're talking bout careers at age 23, then lol, Neymar runs rings around ronaldinho without even trying.. Its a home run!!!

hey Banks, I think any of us that actually saw Ronaldinho play can say without looking at stats that Ronaldinho was a Brazil flop (by his standards), but was a solid component and nothing more to an insanely world class generation he played alongside. Those teams Brazil faced were also pretty damn good in those days. Who knows, had Neymar played with those same guys he might of also had a similar role to Ronaldinho and not been tasked to scoring a ton of goals like he does now...since Rivaldo, Adriano, and Ronaldo would of took the goal scoring off of him. Who knows...

His real magic came from him arriving at a Barcelona that was struggling and he helped bring up from the ashes and he carried the team forward. Not only did we start winning la Liga again, but also helped beat one of the best versions of Arsenal that Wenger has ever had, in Champions League glory. And no, I don't soley look at goals/assists like you do. That would be like saying a midfielder that scored more career goals than say Xavi or Iniesta is superior, just cause they scored more. Stats don't take into consideration the influence the player had on the game. When Ronaldinho arrived he instantly made the entire team better 2 fold. Prior to Ronaldinho arriving, Barcelona was struggling to do much of anything. When Neymar arrived, Barcelona were already regarding as one of the most dominant clubs of our generation, if not THE most dominant. Neymar arrived to a fine oiled machine (you said so yourself, look at how many goals our team scores now vs what the Barcelona that Ronaldinho arrived to, did). We also hold the ball better, we create more chances etc. And as I mentioned earlier, in that era, teams were SUPER strong. The Italian defenses were some of the best we have ever seen, Utd had a prime squad, the Invincibles, the Galacticos etc. Nowadays the Champions League is pretty much down to Barca/Madrid/Bayern seems like, as the big money teams completely took over vs that era when the talent was a bit more evenly distributed and more teams focused on tactics as oppose to spending huge to win

So I am not saying that had Neymar arrived at the old Barcelona that he wouldn't of had the same affect as Ronaldinho did to our team, but i will also not pick one or the other as being better since they played in such different eras/tactics/team mates etc.

So as mentioned in a previous post, I would of loved to see Neymar in Ronaldinos squad, and Ronaldino in Barcelona's squad, just to see how things play out.

Actually i dont believe one person changing or carrying any team. Its a football game and its played by 11 men. other 10 must be super talented OR above average players but years of understanding and chemisty between them. Germany and Spain national team are example for this. because 80% of their players trained together every week (in bayern and barcelona).and this chemistry won them world cups.
For me Ronaldinho didnt carry or change barcelona alone. they already had fantastic squad, even better than today. At that time Xavi entered his prime, Iniesta was born, they had prime Eto, prime Deco, prime Puyol, prime Abidal and young Messi. That machine just needed fuel and it was Ronaldinho.

I'm not saying Neymar is better than Ronaldinho, i'm just saying one player never can change or carry any team. Ronnie lacks Neymar's runs which is very important aspect, as it opens space and destroys balance of defenses. he did some runs when he was young and fast, but it was not his style. Neymar lacks his passing. in other things theres no much difference. its very difficult to accept neymar is better now. but he will have better career if he somehow becomes main man in his team. he doesnt need any flash or tricks he just needs to win CL and Ballon dor. For now i dont know maybe they are equal but neymar needs to prove it. Making a "Neymar show" in upcoming El Clasico (without messi) would be a good start. i dont mean a tapin i mean a show. Both messi and ronaldinho did these shows and gained reputation and respect, neymar needs to do it too

insan wrote:Actually i dont believe one person changing or carrying any team. Its a football game and its played by 11 men. other 10 must be super talented OR above average players but years of understanding and chemisty between them. Germany and Spain national team are example for this. because 80% of their players trained together every week (in bayern and barcelona).and this chemistry won them world cups.
For me Ronaldinho didnt carry or change barcelona alone. they already had fantastic squad, even better than today. At that time Xavi entered his prime, Iniesta was born, they had prime Eto, prime Deco, prime Puyol, prime Abidal and young Messi. That machine just needed fuel and it was Ronaldinho.

I'm not saying Neymar is better than Ronaldinho, i'm just saying one player never can change or carry any team. Ronnie lacks Neymar's runs which is very important aspect, as it opens space and destroys balance of defenses. he did some runs when he was young and fast, but it was not his style. Neymar lacks his passing. in other things theres no much difference. its very difficult to accept neymar is better now. but he will have better career if he somehow becomes main man in his team. he doesnt need any flash or tricks he just needs to win CL and Ballon dor. For now i dont know maybe they are equal but neymar needs to prove it. Making a "Neymar show" in upcoming El Clasico (without messi) would be a good start. i dont mean a tapin i mean a show. Both messi and ronaldinho did these shows and gained reputation and respect, neymar needs to do it too

welcome insan! Are u from India bro

insan wrote:Actually i dont believe one person changing or carrying any team. Its a football game and its played by 11 men. other 10 must be super talented OR above average players but years of understanding and chemisty between them. Germany and Spain national team are example for this. because 80% of their players trained together every week (in bayern and barcelona).and this chemistry won them world cups.
For me Ronaldinho didnt carry or change barcelona alone. they already had fantastic squad, even better than today. At that time Xavi entered his prime, Iniesta was born, they had prime Eto, prime Deco, prime Puyol, prime Abidal and young Messi. That machine just needed fuel and it was Ronaldinho.

I'm not saying Neymar is better than Ronaldinho, i'm just saying one player never can change or carry any team. Ronnie lacks Neymar's runs which is very important aspect, as it opens space and destroys balance of defenses. he did some runs when he was young and fast, but it was not his style. Neymar lacks his passing. in other things theres no much difference. its very difficult to accept neymar is better now. but he will have better career if he somehow becomes main man in his team. he doesnt need any flash or tricks he just needs to win CL and Ballon dor. For now i dont know maybe they are equal but neymar needs to prove it. Making a "Neymar show" in upcoming El Clasico (without messi) would be a good start. i dont mean a tapin i mean a show. Both messi and ronaldinho did these shows and gained reputation and respect, neymar needs to do it too

I meant influence. His tangibles that can't be seen in stats, is what I mentioned. It was regarding Bank who loves to posts stats to support discussions. I don't think it's that simple. It's a team game, I agree, but there is also allot more to it than that. And there is no denying that having a prime Ronaldinho influenced the entire Barcelona side that at that time was struggling really, really bad.

Look at Xavi and his influence on Barcelona and Spain. Same thing. Not saying Xavi carried either club or country, but there is no denying he had a huge influence in the teams success and bringing out the best out of his team mates. I'm not sure Neymar does that for players around him (yet), but I feel Ronaldinho (with Barcelona, not Brazil), did. Neymar definitley is clutch with his goals and scoring, but as far as influencing the entire sides game Ronaldinho was much better at that as oppose to going out and scoring a ton of goals.