The Procession of Plight

One question.

Since I understand that you are too deeply engrained in your hate, one question

What differs a syrian man from a black man or a german man or whatever? Tell me. Stop writing paragraphs. No one has time for that. Let's just breakdown your argument

Is it blondism? is it height? is it skin color?
Language? As viva said, who by the way, actually lives in germany, unlike you who goes to a region for a few weeks and calls it your home . there are many syrians making an HONEST effort to integrate into society by learning German.

I'm well aware sweden has an immigrant problem. I can agree with you on that, but sweden and germany don't have anything to do with each other. And in all honesty, you need to start presenting statistics in english or gtfo

FennecFox7 wrote:One question.

Since I understand that you are too deeply engrained in your hate, one question

What differs a syrian man from a black man or a german man or whatever? Tell me. Stop writing paragraphs. No one has time for that. Let's just breakdown your argument

Is it blondism? is it height? is it skin color?
Language? As viva said, who by the way, actually lives in germany, unlike you who goes to a region for a few weeks and calls it your home . there are many syrians making an HONEST effort to integrate into society by learning German.

I'm well aware sweden has an immigrant problem. I can agree with you on that, but sweden and germany don't have anything to do with each other. And in all honesty, you need to start presenting statistics in english or gtfo

The Syrian man is Syrian from Syrian background. The German man is German, from a German background.

You can't pretend races and different ethnicity's don't exist. The utopian dream that all live together regardless is just a dream, just like perfect communism one, and it'll end in tears.

And I love the world this way. I love nationalism...I love differences in nations, in cultures, in lifestyles. It leads to a WC, It makes Olympics, it makes competitons, it creates value, it creates curiosity, it creates adventure. It makes this world a better place..I make no hidden, I prefer the European culture/lifestyle to those of America/Latino/Asian/Arab/African.

I remember being 8 years old and Iran made it to WC for first time in 20 years after that infamous draw vs. Australia in 1997. The entire country celebrated, the scenes still in my head. Me, and my fellow Iranians, celebrating a national achievement. All of us, together, sharing this joy. same again after we beat USA in France in a highly political match. It was among the top 5 nights of my childhood. I was with people who shared my values of life, my passions, my pride in the achievement, and we had a sense of togetherness.

Us Iranians, made a big fight in history to preserve our culture. We are thick-skinned. When Omar invaded Iran and killed and raped many Iranians, burning hospitals, and libraries...trying to eradicate ALL Farsi speaking or writing books and change our national language to Arabic, we kept our language. He managed to change the country's religion by force, but we maintained our rich culture, our amazing language, and our way of living and it lives to this way. I'm proud that we, at least partially, survived that invasion.

Does it make me a racist ? No...The same way I prefer to date a girl of certain background as opposed to other. As long as I don't actively hate the other part, it falls into freedom of choice.

Hence, me, really appreciating how much Europe has contributed to culture, art, civilization, and why we are where we are today, I want Europe to keep its traditions, its culture, its identity.

The Migrant/Refugee invasion poses a risk to European culture. The values and core religious beliefs of migrants differ greatly with what has made Europe what it is today. They don't assimilate, they practice a mosaic (Like the idiotic thing here we have in Canada. Awful scenes on Yonge street in Toronto yesterday, people blocking the MAIN street crying and mourning for some guy who died 1400 years ago, kicking their chests with fists and some sort of metal...). Sort of scenes I had last seen in some outdated villages in Iran back in 2001, and even back then I was like WTF !!

Mosaic has never worked in Europe. Mosaic will never work in Europe. It'll end in a disaster. We can avoid that, before let it get too late. We're already seeing rise of right populist gov't all over Europe. First Austria (though they rose in ranking, still couldn't get majority), then Switzerland, then Portugal (they're trying to not allow them to take power though democracy lol) and now Poland. It'll only continue this way. Every action creates a reaction. Newton law, and we're seeing it first hand in Europe.

That's the crux of the matter.

Natalie Portman wrote:
The Migrant/Refugee invasion poses a risk to European culture. The values and core religious beliefs of migrants differ greatly with what has made Europe what it is today. They don't assimilate, they practice a mosaic (Like the idiotic thing here we have in Canada. Awful scenes on Yonge street in Toronto yesterday, people blocking the MAIN street crying and mourning for some guy who died 1400 years ago, kicking their chests with fists and some sort of metal...). Sort of scenes I had last seen in some outdated villages in Iran back in 2001, and even back then I was like WTF !!

What do you mean by mosaic?

The best part about Toronto are the random bulletins stuck on poles and public notice boards So passive aggressive and there seems to be some sort of a turf war in that regard, with people tearing apart notices to events by members of opposing ideologies. The funniest I have seen are in the Starbucks at Yonge and College. I went there often for late-night study coffee and every night the bulletin board would have notices with the opposing view to the previous night.

^ By mosaic I mean, when immigrants don't have to assimilate and integrate into host nation's values. It's a cuck move, but it's Canada's official policy. Which is why everyone looks different on the street. Toronto is a very confusing city. I really can't say what an average Torontonian looks like. It's the capital of Ontari-OWE. Shockingly in debt, Shockingly liberal. We can't even smoke in bar patios anymore.
It's the Sweden of North America. and it'll get worse.

Back to Merkel topic. She doesn't even hide how much she hates his own country anymore ....if an America politician tosses the flag aside and gives such a disgusting look after, his/her political career is over. Not in self-hating Germany though

Just fyi.. the first people in Canada and the United States were the native americans/amerindians.. these two countries are basically built on multi-ethnicity.

You need to stop blaming everything on liberals. Conservatism is the definition of going backwards.

Conservatism is the definition of preserving things that have value. As they say, it's easier to destroy than create. I suppose translated into today's jargon, it's easier to "deconstruct" than construct.
But it's pointless to talk, there's too much difference in the psychological make up of conservatives and liberals to understand each other.

A few things: the "value" you talk of is a subjective, personally assigned thing so to make such a broad claim with no context is both misleading and a bit silly. In point of fact, conservatism in the political sense actually refers to an approach that prefers tradition and past practice (whether that be religious or otherwise) over change or transformation, particularly rapid or dramatic shifts. So those things of "value" you speak of tend to be long-held practices, even at the cost of other things of "vlaue" like social/legal equality and such. In the political sense then, those resisting the Civil Rights movement and the end of segregation were conservatives protecting what they valued... segregation and white supremacy. That is NOT suggesting that all or even most or even any modern conservatives agree with that particular line of thought, but it highlights just how subjective those things of "value" worth preserving can be.

"Deconstruction" is hugely different from "destruction" and to equate them either demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of the former term or an intentional attempt to twist the definition... i.e. lying.

Okay, I'll have a moratorium on not taking you seriously for a while, Sepi, and treat you like you actually believed what you said for a while.

Let's view this as an experiment for the both of us.

Natalie Portman wrote:^ THIS IS EXACTLY what I've been warning people about. (Though it's a shame that it's banned under the rules of Sweden and Germany for crimes of refugees/immigrants to get mass cover. The same way that the Hajj disaster got near ZERO coverage in the United States...because it doesn't bode well for policies of people in power. )

That first sentence of you just outright contains a lie (there is no law, or "rule" against much of any kind of reporting in Germany, or Sweden), unless you meant it as metaphoric hyperbole, which I am going to assume, because I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.
So let's interpret this sentence in the most positive light for your point of view:
You're trying to tell us, two things:
1) The immigrants are commiting unproportional ammounts of crime.
2) The media is somehow not reporting on this.
This is kinda your point, right? I'm trying to not put words in your mouth, on the other hand I kind of have to, for the sake of trying to have a discussion.

My response is:
1) There absolutely is no trustworthy source of statistics telling us anything like this, and even you haven't cited one, and I really feel like you would, if you could. There have been some right-wing articles making up random numbers, but they never reveal their sources (because they don't have any). In fact, crime rates haven't gone up significantly in areas with lots of immigrants/refugees.
The only numbers I could dig up are from the German Police, or rather the Police Union, and the Deutsche Polizeigewerkschaft roughly says that violent crimes registered, as well as petty theft, especially shoplifting, commited by refugees or comparable groups roughly tripled within the last 3 years.
They also go on to state, that the number of refugees in that time has risen from around 40k to over 200k, which you might recognize as having more than tripled, in fact that's five times the refugees and only three times the crime.

Let's not go all left-wing retard though: there is disturbing reports of sexual abuse in refugee camps, of refugees, by refugees, but I couldn't find a single credible rape of a German native.

2) There are reports, yes, and they're wildly repeated by right-wing media, especially sensationalist blogs, or shit papers like the Bild news paper, which recently did a 180 and is now friendly towards refugees, or at least pretends to be, in the end though, such stories tend to pan out like this: http://www.focus.de/politik/deutschland/vermeintliche-vergewaltigungen-durch-fluechtlinge-hartnaeckige-geruechte-buergermeister-verurteilt-hirngespinste-seiner-einwohner_id_4967436.html  - German only, but a neat little article about made-up rapes in a small German town.
If I were to indulge you, I could whip up tons of reports from German news outlets of immigrant crime - just almost none of them believable, because it simply isn't a large-scale problem that exists. Of course it exists to some degree, and I kind of know the left-wing goody two-shoes that you have in mind when you talk about "the left", but they're few and far in between, and of course they're wrong when they pretend there won't be any problems with a few million poor people arriving in a foreign country.
It's just that the right wing tends to make shit up, and you seem to love repeating that made-up stuff, if you're not making it up yourself.

There will be a civil war in Western Europe very soon. Maybe as early as next decade. Years of negligence and failing to find balance between far right and far left, will finally explode.

No. No there won't. At the very worst Europe will just close it's borders, which it is utterly capable of doing, it is just currently unwilling.
Either way, this isn't really an argument in either direction, you're just stating something you can't know as certain, I guess we'll have to leave it at that and talk about this again in a decade or two. Unless you move to your beloved Russia, in which case, you probably won't have the same internet as me.

I TOLD YOU SO.

You're telling us oh so many things.

I'm out of this thread since no one wants me and my opinion because it differs from yours.

I don't want your opinion because you seem to have come to your opinion without the benefit of any substantial facts, you seem, if anything, to fabricate facts to fit your narrative, instead of actually observing the streams of information open to anyone. If something contradicts your view, it's of course a conspiracy; if a bit of information suits your view, it of course is only available on far-right fringe blogs by tin-foil hat wearing nutjobs because we can't handle the truth, only right-wing nutters dare speak truth to power, and also it is forbidden to report on these issues, except for, miraculously, conspiracy theorists who never seem to be censored, which kind of seems like an innate contradiction, unless you don't think too hard about it.

Can't be arsed worrying about future of Europe when native Europeans seem to not care.

I care. I care as hard as I care about my balls. I just think that some weird fetish with only seeing blond people in the bus on the way to work is worth less to combined humanity than giving food and shelter to millions of distraught people.

Sweden is in deep trouble.

Yeah it's a war zone... I'd drop an eye-rolling smiley, or a smug "lol", if I were someone who'd du such a thing.

Broken windows of restaurants and houses.....The war is growing.

Wow, you went like triple-Giuliani on that sentence, I don't even know what you mean by that, especially not with regards to Sweden.

The massive reign of liberal progressives and their tolerance has given a dangerous rise to Hard-core right wingists and they'll clash.

Not really, there isn't a massive reign of liberal progressives much anywhere, not even in Sweden, there's Social Democrats, which is something much different.
Conspiracies and lack of political education, as well as frustration, poverty, and boredom leads to hard-core right wingists. I've never met a Nazi who could explain me why he was a xenophobic racists. They mostly just tell you that their comrades were always there for them, that's why they shave their head. Sense of belonging. And they hate brown people because they somehow and magically perform the dual feat of both taking their jobs als well as collecting social security on the white tax payer's dime, despite those two things being contradictory, but what the hell, I'm not the skinhead whisperer.

That happens when there is no political balance. Either fascism or downright stupid extreme Leftist Liberalism.

I haven't seen leftist liberalism actually "happening" anywhere though; I've seen fascism on the other hand, and it's ugly, it's ugly as saggy balls.

To think I used to love Sweden as a country...my fantasy as a child reading Ollof Palme stories and how it's the most peaceful country in Europe. Now the RAPE capital of Europe and will be host of a civil war soon.

Dude.
Dude.
Chill.
First of all, Sweden not conforming to your Astrid Lindgrenesque fantasies isn't really a fault to be corrected by the country of Sweden, it rather merits you managing your expectations. Also what the shit, first of all, how is Sweden more peaceful than Denmark, or Norway, for that matter? Just to kneecap that superlative. And now we've moved past that, it is not the rape capital of Europe, where, by Heimdal's all-seeing gaze, did that even come from?
Just kidding I totally know where that's coming from. Right-wingers have been citing the UNODC-statistics for years, where Sweden is even the rape capital of the world.
You know how that is?
Because in Sweden, and they're the only country that does that, each single sexual assault commited is counted as a seperate crime.
So let's say Vinnie Jones grabs Paul Gascoignes balls, then forcibly frenches the poor lad, before buggering him three ways to sunday, that's like five (5!) rapes right there if you count each way to sunday seperately, and the Swedes do that.
It doesn't mean they got more rape. Same reason Frankfurt is Germany's crime capital. Because they count toll and tax violations at Frankfurt International Airport within the city's crime statistics.
Doesn't mean you're very likely to be raped in Sweden (though you are pretty) or robbed in Frankfurt (though you look pretty robbable).

I'm out of here. We'll re-visit this in 10 years to see who was right about the future.

That seems fair. Fair as balls.

For years, Western Europeans mocked Eastern Europe for being a " unsafe shithole"

I'm pretty sure we used the term "Piss-sink of a dictatorship", but do go on

but little they knew that by year 2030 Eastern Europe would be a much safer place to live in, compared to Western Europe.

I won't hold my breath for that to happen, though it would be really nice if Eastern Europe were to be safer than we are now. Because that's how it'd have to work. Because I don't see us being less safe by then, seeing as the crime rate here in these parts dropped steadily since WWII, and that was a bit tougher to handle than the refugee crisis.
In fact my grandmother got shot at by American spitfires not once, not twice, but three seperate times on her way to school in the '40s, and she laughs at the puny and laughable "problems" we entertain ourselves with now.

I'll be in Moscow, safe, having champaigne observing carefully in 2030 as civil war ensues in Western Europe.

First of all, you probably own't have Champagne, because of the embargoes, secondly, you should think about that, because in Moscow, you might be shanked for looking muslim, or possibly gay, considering you're a kind of tan-looking cutie-pie with a bit of metrosexual swag going on.

Also what you're talking about, Sepi, is a right-wing terrorist. Right wing. That's your side in your proposed civil war, just to poke a bit at your attempt at logic.

Stop your victim blaming. There needs to be less tolerance towards right-wing intolerance, despite the shittyness of that sentence. Not less immigrants to provoke less racist violence. Next you're telling me women shouldn't dress provocatively, because that's the same wonky argument.

Natalie Portman wrote:Transcript of Viktor Orban's historic speech in EPP meeting in Madrid the other day. He calls a spade a spade....what a man. I no longer will need to say a word in this thread....Orban says exactly my line of thinking:

This is kind of being devalued by Orban being the kind of guy that'd encourage racist attacks on Sinti and Roma in his country.
What's your stance on them gypsies, Sepi? Like or dislike?

Natalie Portman wrote:Back to Merkel topic. She doesn't even hide how much she hates his own country anymore ....if an America politician tosses the flag aside and gives such a disgusting look after, his/her political career is over. Not in self-hating Germany though

At least get the context of that video. This is her being dignified, in a time where the flag is being abused by right-wing populists, she rightfully doesn't use it in a partisan setting. The flag is for governmental functions and not to be trivialized by trying to score cheapshot pretend-patriotism points over your political rivals.
I've never liked Merkel much, but this she did right. She's not giving any credence to the suggestion that her political opponents might be lacking in patriotism, and disconnects herself from the issue, as well she should because this was a CDU/CSU party function.
The flag there would only serve to irritate SPD politicians - whom she's currently in a coalition with.

I'd say that's the post of the year in the bag, but you had to go and split it into 4.

VivaStPauli wrote:

Natalie Portman wrote:Transcript of Viktor Orban's historic speech in EPP meeting in Madrid the other day. He calls a spade a spade....what a man. I no longer will need to say a word in this thread....Orban says exactly my line of thinking:

This is kind of being devalued by Orban being the kind of guy that'd encourage racist attacks on Sinti and Roma in his country.
What's your stance on them gypsies, Sepi? Like or dislike?

id like to think us gypsies are not so bad.

@Viva:

Thank you for taking your time and providing a detailed opinion. I'm not good at quoting, so I just address your question and my opinion in point form. before that I'll mention this though

** Since our views of how a society and family should be run is fundamentally different, and we're both grown up adults, we'll never be able to change each other's opinion. I'm not trying to persuade you to come to my side, because you won't, and I won't convert to your side either. But it's constructive debate. Now onto the issues:

Sweden
- Sweden is a country I've had tremendous respect for growing up. I don't know what it was about it, but I always had a soft spot for these. Whenever we had an international school project, I always chose Sweden as country of my interest to research about, to talk about and to invest time reading about. They are different to Danes. I've LIVED in Denmark, not just visited. Danes and Swedes are very different. Swedes are much more passive and reserved about their opinions compared to Danes. Some Danes refer to them as "coffee-bore brothers".

- Ethnic native Swedes (the white ones) are estimated to become a minority in their OWN country in a couple of decades if the current influx of immigrants continue. When I was growing up, the usual Swede was a "Blonde with Blue Eyes". It won't be the case in years 2035.
http://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-politics-immigration-and-population-ageing-present-policy-challeng-2012-8
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6122/sweden-creative-destruction

How is it fair on them ? That they become a minority in their own country? That their voice is undermined in favour of immigrants?

- One of my best friends during Uni was of Swedish origin. Born and raised in Sweden, he was studying in Canada for a few years. I got in touch with him the other day, and he was so worried about his country. He has a younger brother that is doing the "gymansium - High school" in Sweden now. He says: We sit in class, and the non-native Swedes in the back of the room, keep talking crap about Sweden as country all the time. The have COME to us. We have SAVED them from third world, yet they keep trash-talking my country. and if I confront them ? "YOU'RE A RACIST NAZI". He said it's difficult for my sister to walk our dog in the dark now. It wasn't the case when we were growing up. It's getting worse year after year. There are at least 55 no-go areas. What the hell is a No-Go area and how has it come to this ?

http://swedenreport.org/2015/05/18/police-yes-there-are-no-go-zones-in-sweden/
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/10/sweden-journalist-stoned-while-trying-to-film-in-no-go-zone

- Rape statistics. You will ignore all my evidence because of the re-defintion that was one in 2005, but 1482% increase isn't all re-definition. It's a percentage unheard of:
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape
http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/175434/1-4-swedish-women-will-be-raped-sexual-assaults-daniel-greenfield
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/top-5-countries-highest-rates-rape-1434355





- I don't know how you want to cover it with you love in for "Diversity" and "Cultural Enrichment" ....but Sweden should NOT look like this.




Churches and symbols of christianity, shouldn't change their crosses for sake of satisfaction of minority. Just to don't "offend" the people they saved from 3rd world shitholes.



The same way Saudi Arabia should never look blonde. A genocide isn't always by guns...it's gradual.

Communism vs. Fascism
- You're very quick to claim everything right wing as "fascist" and "nazi". That's the buzz word. Anyone who criticizes the diversity policies and the west liberal ideas is immediately called a "Fascist".

Little people remember that the far left (Communism) has been responsible for more death of human lives than far right (Fascism).  Have we forgotten Stalin? Have we forgotten Mao? and the list goes on. The Far left is every bit as bad and dictatorship and censorship protected as the far right, but even worse. Yet, no one bats an eyelid when far left ideas is discussed, but when right wings come to power it's immediately fascist. Now I understand, as a German...you hate the term "nationalist" . It's a german guilt. Not only you, but I met plenty of Germans in my travels in recent years and at least half of them were like you. I met 4 German people in Moscow who said it was "Embarrassing" that people in Germany were celebrated the WC win. They said it's "dangerous" to celebrate this national achievement. This is your mentality. At least some Germans.

- I personally like nationalism. I like being belonged to a group of people who are like me. Who have the same ancestors as me, same history and culture as me, same sense of pride, same mission to make our country great. My level of nationalism ? My dad got an execution sentence from Islamic Republic of Iran, only to be forgiven last minute and save over half a decade in jail. Right now, despite my total disagreement with a theocracy, I much rather the Islamic Republic of Iran stayed. My country of birth is now at its strongest position, world wide, since I've been alive (24). We are now a global player. Allies with Russia, had a good deal with USA, we're not a country to be bullied. I much rather have a dictatorship like that in charge, than the mess Iraq/Afghanistan/Libya/Syria have become being fingered by the United States (The biggest sponsors of Terrorism in the world). I put my national pride ahead of what that gov't has done to hurt me in the past.

Conservative "Backwards" vs. Liberal "Progressive"
- If progressiveness, is blinding yourself to reality to appear "nice", "humble" and "politically correct" in public, I am a proud Backwards person. The West' population is DYING OUT. There is more mortality than death in most major Western countries. Why ? Because of progressiveness. Women aren't encouraged to be women anymore. The foundation of family is mocked and not celebrated. The freedoms, and leftist liberalism has led to many guys dropping out of family market and women living with cats and dogs instead of a  husband. The kids these days aren't grown up under the same basis of family units where dad is the strong figure who goes after the bread for family and mom raises the children and provide a loving environment for normal kids with normal habits to grow.
Being a slut is now advertised, it's called "progressiveness". Slutwalks done by feminists, In the liberal world, Men aren't taught to be men. Tough as nail, strong, providing, resourceful...same way women aren't taught to be women loving, caring, nurturing, caring. and that's why foundation of family in the West is in trouble.
. A strong family unit is key to a nation's prosperity and stronghold. but then again, you don't like the word "nation" and perhaps prefer a one-government for all , so that's a different matter.

On Your dig about me in Russia
- I have been in Russia before, and I was well accepted because the Russians and I share the same opinion about traditional values, and nuclear family. Russians are extremely smart and knowledgable people who read a lot, and have contributed sooooo much to our current civilization and poetry and literature. I am of Iranian father and my mother has European roots. Just like yourself (German) I come from the Aryan race, so the your dig was wrong. I suggest you don't worry how I cope in Russia, because It was great. I am now learning Russian full time, dating a Russian girl and deepening my connection with the great nation with every passing day.

I finish this, by posting a "Tanned Muslim looking metrosexual guy" of myself tonight at the plane.



We'll never change each other' opinion. But time will prove who was right and who was wrong. We'll have to wait for the answer to come. Meanwhile, we can keep debating.

but then again..it's like Donald Trump vs. Justin Trudeau. no point, because we're so fundamentally differently looking at the issue, and since there is not even a single point of common opinion, it's just back and forth. But I already know you'll refuge my sources, and I'll refute yours. There is no trust between us to establish a sound common ground.

It's fine though. You're a great guy from reading your posts here for years, I'd love to see and chat to you in person and just because we stand on different ends of political spectrum, it doesn't mean one of us is scum of earth. It's a shame that other posters that are on the same school of thought as myself "GM, Arq, etc" don't post often, because it's frustrating debate of 1 vs. many.

Cheers.

I've by the way ask RO to remove my account. It's happened to me that I get zero joy here anymore and I cause most of you anger and dead brain cells. It's mentally absorbing. We had a good run of over 6 years. Best of luck to all of you in the future. It's never too late to take the red pill and face the truth though. I guess if RO grants my wish, it'd be my last post ever. Fitting to be in thread that was the beginning of the end. Long live ComradeLegacy, thanks for the memories.

And what exactly is the problem of you only posting in the football sections and other places apart from here?

Don't have to leave just because of this particular sub-section.

remove the account

you can always stop posting you know.

But please don't take away eternal gems like your "Moyes. Legacy. Memories" thread

Natalie Portman wrote:
Sweden
- Sweden is a country I've had tremendous respect for growing up. I don't know what it was about it, but I always had a soft spot for these. Whenever we had an international school project, I always chose Sweden as country of my interest to research about, to talk about and to invest time reading about. They are different to Danes. I've LIVED in Denmark, not just visited. Danes and Swedes are very different. Swedes are much more passive and reserved about their opinions compared to Danes. Some Danes refer to them as "coffee-bore brothers".

Blanket statements on entire countries are difficult though, and I'd argue that there's probably more similarities between big-town Swedes and Danish than between a rural Swede and his countryman from the capital, meaning those laid-back Swedes that are maybe a bit too calm are a stereotype from the small towns that dot the landscape, while Swedes in Malmö or Stockholm are pretty much as hectic as city folk anywhere, be it Copenhagen, or Hamburg.
I haven't lived in either of those countries, but I've lived in Hamburg for a while, and visited Scandinavia often, also I could see them from my house /Palin

Either way that's just us making small talk, so let's move on.

- Ethnic native Swedes (the white ones) are estimated to become a minority in their OWN country in a couple of decades if the current influx of immigrants continue. When I was growing up, the usual Swede was a "Blonde with Blue Eyes". It won't be the case in years 2035.
http://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-politics-immigration-and-population-ageing-present-policy-challeng-2012-8

That article just tells us that birth rates are low, and immigration would be needed to keep population levels steady, not actually that this is going to happen or anything, so in actuality, currently, Swedes aren't really going to become less blonde, they're just going to become less.

How is it fair on them ? That they become a minority in their own country? That their voice is undermined in favour of immigrants?

They won't though; that only holds if you propose some kind of Cold War between blondes and brunettes, in reality it's just that people's hair color changes a bit and nobody forces anyone to care about that; it's not like having brown hair makes you want to murder blondes. Or is it?
Because I might pause here to lock the door now. Twice.

- One of my best friends during Uni was of Swedish origin. Born and raised in Sweden, he was studying in Canada for a few years. I got in touch with him the other day, and he was so worried about his country. He has a younger brother that is doing the "gymansium - High school" in Sweden now. He says: We sit in class, and the non-native Swedes in the back of the room, keep talking crap about Sweden as country all the time. The have COME to us. We have SAVED them from third world, yet they keep trash-talking my country. and if I confront them ? "YOU'RE A RACIST NAZI". He said it's difficult for my sister to walk our dog in the dark now. It wasn't the case when we were growing up. It's getting worse year after year. There are at least 55 no-go areas. What the hell is a No-Go area and how has it come to this ?

Funny, I had like a third of immigrant children in my class, and they never said anything like this, except to the extent that all kids sometimes shit on a country that forbids them from getting high, so maybe his experience is just anecdotal and not really indicative of the entire course of society?

Also we have No-Go areas in Germany; they pop up if you have economic disparity, same everywhere around the world. And depending on where you go they're dependent on different people. In some Berlin districts, there's a few blocks controlled by criminal Arab clans that seem to purely exist to prove you right, because they've been protected by ill-fated left wing projects stopping their deportation, so they now dominate entire apartment complexes with their ridiculously large families, collect unemployment benefits, and beef up those ill-gotten gains with crime-spree after crime spree, and the police is kind of dumbfounded.
There's like 3 of those in the entire country.

Then there's  dozens upon dozens fo No-Go areas in the former GDR, you know East Germany, where it's all Nazi skinheads creating the No-Go Areas; and they're as blond and germanic looking as you like 'em, yet they're the criminals. And there's more of them, and they're more dangerous. So it seems to me, poor white people are just as likely to turn to crime as poor brown people, except statistically, the poor white people are more violent.

- Rape statistics. You will ignore all my evidence because of the re-defintion that was one in 2005, but 1482% increase isn't all re-definition. It's a percentage unheard of

Of course it's all re-definition. What the hell. Even if they tried, immigrants couldn't rape that much. Listen, if you were trying to sell people on, like, a 20 or 30% increase in rape cases someone might listen, bit an almost 15 times increase in  rape? Come on.
You just know the maths must've changed for that to be a thing.
Especially considering Sweden, just like Germany, by the way, doesn't let rapists just run around. In fact, after doing all that rape, immigrants tend to end up in jail, and/or deported.

- I don't know how you want to cover it with you love in for "Diversity" and "Cultural Enrichment" ....but Sweden should NOT look like this.

Spoiler:

That's only, like, your opinion... Man.
In all seriousness, there's no argument in there, I just don't deal in terms of how white or non-white people should look.

Churches and symbols of christianity, shouldn't change their crosses for sake of satisfaction of minority. Just to don't "offend" the people they saved from 3rd world shitholes.

And they don't, and also don't have to. Also ironic, since historically speaking, Sweden was only christianized like yesterday, yet nobody is telling those bloody Christians to go back to Rome, take their false messiah with them, and let those pure-bred Germanic beauties worship Odin and Thor like they're meant to.

The same way Saudi Arabia should never look blonde. A genocide isn't always by guns...it's gradual.

If it doesn't contain murder, it's not a genocide. Equating a demographic shift with genocide drains the term "genocide" of all meaning, so you might as well not use it.

Communism vs. Fascism
- You're very quick to claim everything right wing as "fascist" and "nazi". That's the buzz word. Anyone who criticizes the diversity policies and the west liberal ideas is immediately called a "Fascist".

What? No. I'm not. I'm claiming everything Nazi or Fascist as right wing. I actually double-dare you to find me just blanketing all right-wingers with accusations of being nazis, because I don't do that. I reserve that for the xenophobes.

Little people remember that the far left (Communism) has been responsible for more death of human lives than far right (Fascism).

Yes, but there being the meaningful difference that Fascism as an ideology kind of needs to lead to genocide, or at least mass exodus, whereas with Communism the mass-murder just happens to be a way for psychotic dictators to consolidate their power and it's nowhere imminent in the actual ideology; you can easily have a Communist regime that doesn't kill or displace a single soul if you follow the writings of Marx, Engels, and even Lenin.
You can't really realize the ideals of "Mein Kampf" without getting your kill on.

Have we forgotten Stalin? Have we forgotten Mao? and the list goes on. The Far left is every bit as bad and dictatorship and censorship protected as the far right, but even worse. Yet, no one bats an eyelid when far left ideas is discussed, but when right wings come to power it's immediately fascist.

We have to be very careful what we equate here, though. When ideologues on the far left start praising the benefits of Socialism it's mostly about redistribution of wealth, social justice, and exercising control on corporations, as well as having a counter point to corporatism.
When people on the far right praise the merits of Fascism, they mostly really are condoning genocide, or at least slavery or the displacement of entire ethnicities. That's a hugely qualitatively different statement of intent, and while one might disagree with redistribution of wealth being a good thing, no leftist in the western world, when praising Socialism, is making any excuses for the brutal regimes of Mao or Stalin; far-right extremists do in fact often and publicly condone practices like the holocaust.
So I'd argue that Socialism has a place in civilized discussions within a democracy, while fascism does not.

Now I understand, as a German...you hate the term "nationalist" . It's a german guilt. Not only you, but I met plenty of Germans in my travels in recent years and at least half of them were like you. I met 4 German people in Moscow who said it was "Embarrassing" that people in Germany were celebrated the WC win. They said it's "dangerous" to celebrate this national achievement. This is your mentality. At least some Germans.

And if you ask the French or the Polish they'll be very happy about our current mentality thankyouverymuch.

- I personally like nationalism. I like being belonged to a group of people who are like me. Who have the same ancestors as me, same history and culture as me, same sense of pride, same mission to make our country great. My level of nationalism ? My dad got an execution sentence from Islamic Republic of Iran, only to be forgiven last minute and save over half a decade in jail. Right now, despite my total disagreement with a theocracy, I much rather the Islamic Republic of Iran stayed. My country of birth is now at its strongest position, world wide, since I've been alive (24). We are now a global player. Allies with Russia, had a good deal with USA, we're not a country to be bullied. I much rather have a dictatorship like that in charge, than the mess Iraq/Afghanistan/Libya/Syria have become being fingered by the United States (The biggest sponsors of Terrorism in the world). I put my national pride ahead of what that gov't has done to hurt me in the past.

See? This, to me, is insane. So you'd rather have the dictatorship that sentenced your own father to death prosper, rather than give up some sense of misplaced pride in something you had no hand in achieving? You haven't done a thing to further the glory of the Persian Empire, or the modern nation of Iran, how can you derive pride from that?
I mean sure, if it makes you feel better, I guess that's nice, but maybe, if you lack a sense of accomplishment you should try to accomplish more things, instead of latching your lack of fulfillment onto the existence of a brutal regime (that, disclaimer, isn't as bad as the Republicans would make you think, but still not very nice).

- If progressiveness, is blinding yourself to reality to appear "nice", "humble"

Ironically you still try to be nice in this thread, and some humbleness would probably suit you as well.

and "politically correct" in public, I am a proud Backwards person.

Awww come on, that political correctness BS is the biggest strawman argument since the war on Christmas, if Donald Trump can call all Mexicans rapists, how far along is the liberal censorship really?

The West' population is DYING OUT. There is more mortality than death in most major Western countries. Why ? Because of progressiveness. Women aren't encouraged to be women anymore.

You mean women aren't forced to defer to gender stereotypes created by the very men profiting from them? Yeah let's just wait for the world's smallest violin playing the requiem for that terrible loss.

The foundation of family is mocked and not celebrated.

Is it, though? Where and how? What do you mean by that? Care to provide examples?

The freedoms, and leftist liberalism has led to many guys dropping out of family market and women living with cats and dogs instead of a  husband.

Well if that's the result of "Freedoms"  I reckon those people wanted to live with cats and dogs, so let them. No skin off my arse. I'm pretty sure most human beings still want a significant other, it's just that they now have the economic freedom to not have to marry a shithead to avoid starvation.

The kids these days aren't grown up under the same basis of family units where dad is the strong figure who goes after the bread for family and mom raises the children and provide a loving environment for normal kids with normal habits to grow.

Okay, first of all I'm not sure this is true, since overall violent crime in the world is down most everyhwere, we must be doing something right raising our kids. Also, my mom worked all my life, and she did a damn fine job raising me, I'm awesome.
Secondly I don't really think that there is any inherent superiority to the man being the breadwinner of hte family as opposed to the woman. Both parents working these days has two reasons:
1) people have higher expectations of standard of living, which costs money, so two people making said money can afford a higher standard of living, something people in the free world value highly.
2) your beloved conservatives keep making the work place more competetive, concentrating profits in the hands of the rich, so now mom has to work, because dad can't buy a house, a car, and afford college for his kids with the wages of a regular employee anymore
- bonus round -
Also let's not forget that those loving environments we had like 50 years ago which you seem to yearn for contained, as far as my parents tell me, a lot of beatings. Also, if you read a good novel from anywhere between the '30s and '60s, those dads seemed to mostly come home drunk from work and beat the living shit out of that loving mom, so I welcome the progress.

Being a slut is now advertised, it's called "progressiveness". Slutwalks done by feminists, In the liberal world, Men aren't taught to be men. Tough as nail, strong, providing, resourceful...same way women aren't taught to be women loving, caring, nurturing, caring. and that's why foundation of family in the West is in trouble.

Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait WHOAH.
You completely, utterly, and absolutely misinterpreted what slutwalks are about. Are you serious?
Because women on slut walks are not advertising dressing like that, that's not what slut walks are about. It's about being able to dress like that, if one wanted, without being raped.

Also, what's your sudden hate of sluts? I thought you loved Tinder, and from what I've read from you elsewhere I always thought you were a huge slut. (No offense intended, I think sex is healthy and to be encouraged)

A strong family unit is key to a nation's prosperity and stronghold. but then again, you don't like the word "nation" and perhaps prefer a one-government for all , so that's a different matter.

I just don't happen to think that the old lop-sided patriarchy counts as a particularly "strong" family unit, it's more that back in the day economic realities were so shitty that families were forced to stick tightly together, even if they didn't like each other much.
I for one love that today's modern world allows me to ignore my shithead cousins even though we're related. But boy are they obnoxious. Well one third of them is, big love to my good cousins.

I don't dislike the word "nation" btw, I'm just not convinced nations as a construct have any intrensic value; though they are a useful construct of social order, and until someone comes up with a better idea they'll do. I just think nations should unite their peoples as a primary function, not exclude non-nationals.

On Your dig about me in Russia
- I have been in Russia before, and I was well accepted because the Russians and I share the same opinion about traditional values, and nuclear family. Russians are extremely smart and knowledgable people who read a lot, and have contributed sooooo much to our current civilization and poetry and literature. I am of Iranian father and my mother has European roots. Just like yourself (German) I come from the Aryan race, so the your dig was wrong. I suggest you don't worry how I cope in Russia, because It was great. I am now learning Russian full time, dating a Russian girl and deepening my connection with the great nation with every passing day.

Listen, I like that you're broadening your horizon, and of course my dig was just that - a dig. You know I don't care about how someone looks. But Russia has a big racism problem, and you must be aware of it.
Also I don't believe the Aryan race is in actually a thing.

And I frankly disapprove of the term "Race" for different ethnicities. And I don't want to spoil your party, but if you went into white supremacist skinhead territory, the intricacy of you being Aryan would be, and I promise you that, entirely lost on them.

I finish this, by posting a "Tanned Muslim looking metrosexual guy" of myself tonight at the plane.

Indeed you are.

There is no trust between us to establish a sound common ground.

Yeah that's probably the biggest problem. When either of us posts a link to an article or statistic, the other's just going all "oh right, that (opposite)-wing biased shit of a website/paper".

It's a shame that other posters that are on the same school of thought as myself "GM, Arq, etc" don't post often, because it's frustrating debate of 1 vs. many.

There might also be a reason you guys are in the extreme minority though; even Arq, smart as he most often is, has an opinion of women, and on women's issues, that has been outdated longer than the frilly frock.[/quote]

RedOranje wrote:A few things: the "value" you talk of is a subjective, personally assigned thing so to make such a broad claim with no context is both misleading and a bit silly.  In point of fact, conservatism in the political sense actually refers to an approach that prefers tradition and past practice (whether that be religious or otherwise) over change or transformation, particularly rapid or dramatic shifts.  So those things of "value" you speak of tend to be long-held practices, even at the cost of other things of "vlaue" like social/legal equality and such.  In the political sense then, those resisting the Civil Rights movement and the end of segregation were conservatives protecting what they valued... segregation and white supremacy.  That is NOT suggesting that all or even most or even any modern conservatives agree with that particular line of thought, but it highlights just how subjective those things of "value" worth preserving can be.

"Deconstruction" is hugely different from "destruction" and to equate them either demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of the former term or an intentional attempt to twist the definition... i.e. lying.

Red, what we conservatives perceive as good is not necessarily objectively good, I didn't say it was. I am defining conservatism by what the conservative impulse is. Does that clear it up for you?

Liberals are open minded, less orderly and eager to change to improve. The fact that not every change is nessesarily good because often they are bitter twisted and full of resentment over whatever real or perceived injustice that's blighted their character, doesn't mean I would define progressivism as such.

FennecFox7 wrote:Just fyi.. the first people in Canada and the United States were the native americans/amerindians.. these two countries are basically built on multi-ethnicity.

As much as I'd like this to be the case, it's just not true. America was most certainly not built on multi-ethnicity, it was built on the genocide of the native populations and the subjugation & exploitation of black people.

The medicine isn't pleasant going down, but to deny the realities & legacies of this country's history is to promote a false narrative and foster ignorance of the past

The hilarious thing is the 'aryan' term just like swastika that idiotic Hitler took from sansrkit and let me teach you something sepi.

The word Aryan came from the word Iranian. The mohanjadaro people of India called the people who came from Iran with iron weapons as Iranians and that transformed later into Aryans. The only Aryans in the world are Iranians and them alone, all others are called what ever else they are being called.

They say history repeats itself...

http://historybuff.com/anne-frank-was-a-refugee-who-was-denied-entrance-to-the-united-states/

Oh my god viva.

Posts. Of. The. *bleep*. Year.

well *bleep* done

Swanhends wrote:

FennecFox7 wrote:Just fyi.. the first people in Canada and the United States were the native americans/amerindians.. these two countries are basically built on multi-ethnicity.

As much as I'd like this to be the case, it's just not true. America was most certainly not built on multi-ethnicity, it was built on the genocide of the native populations and the subjugation & exploitation of black people.

The medicine isn't pleasant going down, but to deny the realities & legacies of this country's history is to promote a false narrative and foster ignorance of the past

Oh absolutely. I agree with you on that. Don't forget the dehumanizing treatment of the Asian population as well.

I'm just saying people came here looking for a better life regardless. It's the idea I'm really trying to talk about

The reality is horrifying, agreed, but for the most part, whether the right wingers want to admit it, economically, we would not be anywhere near the power we are today without immigrants.

DuringTheWar wrote:

RedOranje wrote:A few things: the "value" you talk of is a subjective, personally assigned thing so to make such a broad claim with no context is both misleading and a bit silly.  In point of fact, conservatism in the political sense actually refers to an approach that prefers tradition and past practice (whether that be religious or otherwise) over change or transformation, particularly rapid or dramatic shifts.  So those things of "value" you speak of tend to be long-held practices, even at the cost of other things of "vlaue" like social/legal equality and such.  In the political sense then, those resisting the Civil Rights movement and the end of segregation were conservatives protecting what they valued... segregation and white supremacy.  That is NOT suggesting that all or even most or even any modern conservatives agree with that particular line of thought, but it highlights just how subjective those things of "value" worth preserving can be.

"Deconstruction" is hugely different from "destruction" and to equate them either demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of the former term or an intentional attempt to twist the definition... i.e. lying.

The fact that not every change is nessesarily good because often they are bitter twisted and full of resentment over whatever real or perceived injustice that's blighted their character.

Wow, how ironic. A conservative telling a liberal they are bitter and full of resentment due to negative personal experiences take a look in the mirror that is the basis of EVERY bigoted right winger argument

So, up to one thousand male refugees were harassing, sexually assaulting and mugging women in Cologne on New Year's Eve:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35231046

The mayor of Cologne has summoned police for crisis talks after about 80 women reported sexual assaults and muggings by men on New Year's Eve.

The scale of the attacks on women at the city's central railway station has shocked Germany. About 1,000 drunk and aggressive young men were involved.

City police chief Wolfgang Albers called it "a completely new dimension of crime". The men were of Arab or North African appearance, he said.

Women were also targeted in Hamburg.

But the Cologne assaults - near the city's iconic cathedral - were the most serious, German media report.

At least one woman was raped, and many were groped.
Most of the crimes reported to police were robberies. A volunteer policewoman was among those sexually molested.

Thoughts?