Is Atletico the best run team in Europe?

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Post by Dnmac4 Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:37 am

I'm a Barcelona fan but I can't help but respect the way Atletico has been run for the last 5 plus years or so.

It seems like just yesterday when they hadn't beat Real for it seemed like decades, or they were struggling to finish in the top 4, or at best there best season was a hugely distant third place finish.  They were known as Pathetico.  

Now they scout young talent incredibly well, they have managed to keep Simeone (I thought it was just a matter of time until a huge club snatched him up) and they have lost some great players through the market but replace them and know which players are the heart of the team and which players not to sell.

They target players and buy them for reasonable fee's, and conversely they sell players for maximum return.  The players they do buy it seems like they get acclimated to Simeone's system right away.

IMO they are going to be a handful for Madrid and Barca in the league this year and in the Champions League Simeone is the last guy I would want my team to draw for a two legged knockout situation.

In fact betting-wise Chelsea or City have better odds to win the Champions League than Atletico which I think is a joke.  Atletico would smoke either team.

So is there any team right now being run better than Atletico in an all around capacity?
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Post by Kaladin Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:45 am

Juve immediately comes to mind for me, Bayern as well

Also, weren't Atleti in the red before the Chinese purchased a stake in the club?
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Post by Dnmac4 Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:07 am

El Shaarawy wrote:Juve immediately comes to mind for me, Bayern as well

Also, weren't Atleti in the red before the Chinese purchased a stake in the club?


Yes, tons of La Liga teams are in debt and most large clubs operate at a loss if they don't have a Billionaire owner to bail them out.

In fact the first thing they tell American Business men who want to buy a European football team is, "It's not like the USA, you better love football because you're going to lose money." Where it's the opposite buying american franchises.

Juve and Bayern are two of the largest most respected teams in all of football.

And with all due respect to them, they don't play in a league with Barcelona and Madrid.

Atletico IMO is just a lesson in if you get the right manager, develop youth and make the transfer market work for you instead of looking at it as a never ending shopping spree you can go from being called Pathetico to one of the strongest sides in Europe in a very short amount of time.

Also, Bayern and Juve can attract a different caliber of player than Atletico. It's much harder for Atleti to do business than both those clubs. Taking nothing away from them of course.
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Post by Luca Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:14 am

Dnmac4 wrote:
El Shaarawy wrote:Juve immediately comes to mind for me, Bayern as well

Also, weren't Atleti in the red before the Chinese purchased a stake in the club?


Yes, tons of La Liga teams are in debt and most large clubs operate at a loss if they don't have a Billionaire owner to bail them out.

In fact the first thing they tell American Business men who want to buy a European football team is, "It's not like the USA, you better love football because you're going to lose money." Where it's the opposite buying american franchises.

Juve and Bayern are two of the largest most respected teams in all of football.

And with all due respect to them, they don't play in a league with Barcelona and Madrid.

Atletico IMO is just a lesson in if you get the right manager, develop youth and make the transfer market work for you instead of looking at it as a never ending shopping spree you can go from being called Pathetico to one of the strongest sides in Europe in a very short amount of time.

Also, Bayern and Juve can attract a different caliber of player than Atletico. It's much harder for Atleti to do business than both those clubs. Taking nothing away from them of course.


By the same logic, less expectations for a team like Atletico than any of the other four mentioned clubs. Taking nothing away from Atletico, I believe it is a fantastically ran club.

I was surprised to see Juventus mentioned but really if you look at the last 5 years, it must be true. New stadium, re-instated a winning mentality and made many shrewd transfers- building up to a domestic double last season and a Champions League final appearance against a superior Barcelona

I think Porto deserves to be mentioned. Who does better business? Who has better scouting? And they still consistently do well as a footballing team

Fan of Borussia Dortmund, only thing is it is sad to see their stars go to their own rivals but they can't realistically control that

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Post by Dnmac4 Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:29 am

Luca wrote:
Dnmac4 wrote:
El Shaarawy wrote:Juve immediately comes to mind for me, Bayern as well

Also, weren't Atleti in the red before the Chinese purchased a stake in the club?


Yes, tons of La Liga teams are in debt and most large clubs operate at a loss if they don't have a Billionaire owner to bail them out.

In fact the first thing they tell American Business men who want to buy a European football team is, "It's not like the USA, you better love football because you're going to lose money."  Where it's the opposite buying american franchises.

Juve and Bayern are two of the largest most respected teams in all of football.

And with all due respect to them, they don't play in a league with Barcelona and Madrid.

Atletico IMO is just a lesson in if you get the right manager, develop youth and make the transfer market work for you instead of looking at it as a never ending shopping spree you can go from being called Pathetico to one of the strongest sides in Europe in a very short amount of time.

Also, Bayern and Juve can attract a different caliber of player than Atletico.  It's much harder for Atleti to do business than both those clubs.  Taking nothing away from them of course.


By the same logic, less expectations for a team like Atletico than any of the other four mentioned clubs. Taking nothing away from Atletico, I believe it is a fantastically ran club.

I was surprised to see Juventus mentioned but really if you look at the last 5 years, it must be true. New stadium, re-instated a winning mentality and made many shrewd transfers- building up to a domestic double last season and a Champions League final appearance against a superior Barcelona

I think Porto deserves to be mentioned. Who does better business? Who has better scouting? And they still consistently do well as a footballing team

Fan of Borussia Dortmund, only thing is it is sad to see their stars go to their own rivals but they can't realistically control that


Agreed, Juve is 100% up there and it's a toss up.  I don't put Porto up there simply because I don't think they have aspirations of winning the Champions League.  I think there fine dominating a second class league and being a feeder club.

Atletico are also building a new stadium and I know some wont agree but I think it was harder for Atleti to win La Liga against Madrid and Barca lets face it, two of the top 3 teams in the world in that 5 years span (who operate with unlimited budgets and every player wants to play there) than Juve dominating Serie A, not to mention outside of last year Juve has been largely just OK in the CL in the last couple years.

Atleti was 1 minute away from pulling the double.  Not to mention the numerous trophies European and domestic they've won in that 5 year span.

I just think Juve operate on a whole different level than Atletico.  I'm a realist, if/when they lose Simeone they could be right back to being a doormat to Madrid and Barca where as Juve will always have that prestige.
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Post by Dnmac4 Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:30 am

But yes totally agreed Atletico do have the luxury of lower expectations.
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Post by Rebaño Sagrado Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:33 am

I put 99% of their success on Simeone himself.
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Post by Donuts Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:35 am

well they have done a great job on keeping the players they really want such as koke so i give them that.
they also are winning trophies in a barca dominated era.
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Post by Lord Spencer Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:13 am

I think its a toss-up between Atletico and Dortmund imo.

Both operate under the shadow of much bigger clubs.
Both managed to consistently push above their weight.
Both managed to get to the CL final in the last 5 years.
Both have lower expectations put on them, but they don't care.
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Post by titosantill Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:17 am

i'd say its been down primarily to simeone. but not sure about best run club. different clubs have different expectations, different business models and different financial moves based on their level. you won't expect a team like say psg to do business in the same capacity as say roma. the risks the bigger clubs take may be considered bad for business or for their public image (and when i say 'image', i mean fans' and media perception, which in the long term really hardly matters; big clubs have done some dealings and moves fans frown upon and it has hardly affected their business/investments)

atleti, sevilla, porto come to mind with regards to team that one can say are "run well", but imo that should be in comparison to teams on a similar level. from a sporting standpoint, fantastic. from a long term business standpoint, still yet to be seen (maybe not so for porto, their model of buy cheap sell at 1 billion times the actual price has done wonders for them over the ages)
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Post by LeBéninois Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:47 am

Lord Spencer wrote:I think its a toss-up between Atletico and Dortmund imo.

Both operate under the shadow of much bigger clubs.
Both managed to consistently push above their weight.
Both managed to get to the CL final in the last 5 years.
Both have lower expectations put on them, but they don't care.


Yup, 2 awesome teams. They are so refreshing. I'd give the edge to A.Madrid tho. Winning La Liga in that context might be one the greatest achievement of the last decade and they were one clearance away of winning the CL ( even if RM deserved their victory. )
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Post by julias Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:15 am

Great thread, personally I would say Atleti are up there with the top 3 best run European clubs. Imo I would say Dortmund are slightly better run only because they have managed to win the league twice against a power house literally with just shrewd transfers and youth, spending very little in comparison to rivals whilst also staying very much in the black. Similar to Atleti in the fact that they went from a middle table club to a CL legit team through the guidance of a fantastic manager.

Atleti's feat however is also so impressive, Simeone literally took a bunch of losers and made them perennial winners. I still remember the days Messi used to score hattricks for fun against some of these same players.

That is what is so impressive that the Mirandas and the Gabis etc were the ones getting pounded on and Simeone completely changed that mentality.

Also the fact that they are now a legit force season after season in both La Liga and Europe and have managed to win trophies quite consistently despite having to compete with Barca and Madrid puts them right up there for me.

Juve would be my other pick as they have been able to drag themselves back up and really achieve in the last 4/5 years.

Honorable mention to Roma as I see them really being able to achieve something in Serie A, I like Sevilla as well.

No PL mentions for me however as the amount of TV money is just ridiculous and even the crapest team can get millions, except maybe Arsenal because we are well run Smile
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:05 am

5+ years? It's only since Simeone has been around. Atleti is actually known for being the worst run team, they have the biggest budget and biggest fanbase (aside of barca and real) in the league and even so they overpaid for shit players, could not keep a manager for more than a season, and consistently lost the CL spots to Villareal, Sevilla and Valencia. I fully expect them to go back to being a shambles of a team when Simeone leaves.
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Post by Doc Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:30 am

To think this is the same Atletico where Gil Marin and Cerezo would purposely try to make each other look awful, where Abel Resino called them the worst run club in Europe, where Sid Lowe wrote they were the worst run club in Europe, where they couldn't beat Madrid for life or love. And this wasn't back when Jesus was a boy, this was Pre Simeone.

Honestly, I give all of the success and steady ship sailing down to Simeone. No one else really. But yeah, Simeone have them running quite well.
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Post by The Franchise Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:45 am

What happens on the pitch changes everything. They found a great coach who changed the entire way they played and changed their entire mentality.

They have gone from underachievers to total overachievers.

Many of the signings they have made have been very good, but no doubt about it if they did these same moves without Simeone, half of them wouldnt work nearly as well.

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Post by BusterLfc Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:09 pm

Dortmund has to do it for me. Won the Bundesliga multiple times ahead of Bayern in the recent years and only lost the CL because of Robben's late goal.
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Post by El Gunner Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:33 pm

julias wrote:Also the fact that they are now a legit force season after season in both La Liga and Europe and have managed to win trophies quite consistently despite having to compete with Barca and Madrid puts them right up there for me.
I am not so sure about calling it "consistently". Yes they won the league.
The Copa Del Rey season before that and also the two EL seasons before that (but I don't know how much serious we should take that, because the EL seems just like another cup competition for only the Spanish teamss Laughing )

Let us wait at least for 5 more years, even more so after Simeone leaves and then we can be the judge.
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Post by iftikhar Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:37 pm

Lord Spencer wrote:I think its a toss-up between Atletico and Dortmund imo.

Both operate under the shadow of much bigger clubs.
Both managed to consistently push above their weight.
Both managed to get to the CL final in the last 5 years.
Both have lower expectations put on them, but they don't care.
Agreed Thumbs up
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Post by Dnmac4 Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:52 pm

I mean that's kind of the point, Simeone hasn't left and IMO if he were going to leave anytime soon he would have already done so.

I mean if you look at it, where is he going to go?  He's at Atleti so IMO he wont go to Madrid, Barca wouldn't hire a manager like him because stylistically he doesn't fit, I don't see him going to Germany or Italy and the PL would be the only option where it could be realistic if a club throws the kitchen sink at him money wise.  Maybe the Argentina job.

I think he likes being the underdog and has signed a new contract and plans to go nowhere.  

They found a manager loyal to the team in this day and age where that is almost impossible and the transfers they are making are spot on over and over again, where you see multiple teams sell there star player and just squander the money.

I mean yes 75% of this is all down to Simeone but that's the case with any elite team these days, you need a great manager and while he puts everything together the club still operated outside of his approval.  You can't give him credit for everything, I mean the club did need to hire him after all and fully back him once there which seems obvious but there are numerous examples of the club needing to push there weight around and not have the manager perceived to take credit.

And to BC, yes the last 5 years or so, I mean I think everyone knows how badly the team was run hence the Pathetico nickname before he got there.

I just think this Atleti team is going to be a real problem this year domestically and in Europe.  You could get 20/1 odds on them to win the Champions League a week or two ago.  I think they should be one of the favorites.
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Post by eyeopener Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:48 pm

Sporting-wise they are, at this very right moment, indeed the best runned club in Europe. They know which players to keep against all costs (Godin, Koke, and add Griezmann now on that list), which players to sell and more importantly which players to bring in as replacments.

Atletico are gonna win the Champions League this season. Those guys are not joking around. They have add speed and skill in attack compared to last season in a team that was already perfect organised at the back. Godin and Jimenez are the best defensive duo in Europa. Juan Fran and Felipe Luiz are solid fullbacks. In Gabi and Thiago they've got a central midfield that comes as hardworking and smart as it gets. Koke is one of the best midfielders around, that guy can do literly anything. Jackson Martinez doesn't need a introduction, Vietto is probably the biggest attacking talent of La Liga. Caresco will add speed in the break and Griezmann shits all over Neymar and Bale. And their bench is quite strong, keep an eye out for Oliver Torres.

A smart (betting) men puts his money on Atletico to go on winning the Champions League. If they can fellow a Barcelona/Real in 38 games league we'll have to see, but right now i don't see any European team beating this Simeone team in a 2 legged tie. A final is like a cornflip so everything can happen there, but this Atletico means buisness and with ther no-nonsense mentality i can't see them getting beat before the final in San Siro.

EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaIeEy-skwU Atletico, Simeone and their no-nonsense mentality always remind me of this track when i see them playing. Not joking around those guys.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:00 pm

iftikhar wrote:
Lord Spencer wrote:I think its a toss-up between Atletico and Dortmund imo.

Both operate under the shadow of much bigger clubs.
Both managed to consistently push above their weight.
Both managed to get to the CL final in the last 5 years.
Both have lower expectations put on them, but they don't care.
Agreed Thumbs up


If you extend your grasp of history just a little longer than 10 years, you'll see that Dortmund isn't only the small but fantastically run club 'in the shadow of bigger clubs'.

They were a huge club in Germany, wasting money, becoming incorporated etc, ruining their finances before, and they're just recovering now, really.
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Post by Dnmac4 Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:12 pm

Yea, not a Bund League expert or anything but when you see there fan base and how large the stadium is (I think it's the largest in Germany if I'm not mistaken?) it's kind of hard to think of them as a small team.

Then again Atleti really isn't a small team either.
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Post by Lord Spencer Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:22 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:
iftikhar wrote:
Lord Spencer wrote:I think its a toss-up between Atletico and Dortmund imo.

Both operate under the shadow of much bigger clubs.
Both managed to consistently push above their weight.
Both managed to get to the CL final in the last 5 years.
Both have lower expectations put on them, but they don't care.
Agreed Thumbs up


If you extend your grasp of history just a little longer than 10 years, you'll see that Dortmund isn't only the small but fantastically run club 'in the shadow of bigger clubs'.

They were a huge club in Germany, wasting money, becoming incorporated etc, ruining their finances before, and they're just recovering now, really.
Hapless_Hans wrote:
iftikhar wrote:
Lord Spencer wrote:I think its a toss-up between Atletico and Dortmund imo.

Both operate under the shadow of much bigger clubs.
Both managed to consistently push above their weight.
Both managed to get to the CL final in the last 5 years.
Both have lower expectations put on them, but they don't care.
Agreed Thumbs up


If you extend your grasp of history just a little longer than 10 years, you'll see that Dortmund isn't only the small but fantastically run club 'in the shadow of bigger clubs'.

They were a huge club in Germany, wasting money, becoming incorporated etc, ruining their finances before, and they're just recovering now, really.


Compared to Bayern, and the rest of Europe's biggest team, they are bloody minnows.

@Dnmac,

I can see Simone coaching Inter. He played for them and enjoyed his time there. Also, Inter are somewhat underdogs in this day and age.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:27 pm

Lord Spencer wrote:
Hapless_Hans wrote:
iftikhar wrote: Agreed Thumbs up


If you extend your grasp of history just a little longer than 10 years, you'll see that Dortmund isn't only the small but fantastically run club 'in the shadow of bigger clubs'.

They were a huge club in Germany, wasting money, becoming incorporated etc, ruining their finances before, and they're just recovering now, really.


Compared to Bayern, and the rest of Europe's biggest team, they are bloody minnows.


That's the point though. They weren't 'bloody minnows' compared to us around 2000. They had won the CL and made crazy money signings. Amoroso etc.

So why would they be better run than, err, us, just because they've managed to climb out of a hole they themselves dug?
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Post by Lord Spencer Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:40 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:
Lord Spencer wrote:
Hapless_Hans wrote:

If you extend your grasp of history just a little longer than 10 years, you'll see that Dortmund isn't only the small but fantastically run club 'in the shadow of bigger clubs'.

They were a huge club in Germany, wasting money, becoming incorporated etc, ruining their finances before, and they're just recovering now, really.


Compared to Bayern, and the rest of Europe's biggest team, they are bloody minnows.


That's the point though. They weren't 'bloody minnows' compared to us around 2000. They had won the CL and made crazy money signings. Amoroso etc.

So why would they be better run than, err, us, just because they've managed to climb out of a hole they themselves dug?


Marseille won the CL once. So what?

In their history, BVB won the league 8 times. Runner's up 6 times. In the last 5 years they managed each two times.

They only managed 3 wins at the cup, and they didn't do much in Europe outside of a CL win.

Compare that to Bayern, who has 24 league titles (since BVB joined the league) and 17 cups, and 5 CL.

They are "bloody minnows" compare to Bayern.

In fact, Atletico are a bigger team in Spain than BVB is in Germany, with more league and cup wins. In Europe, they are about equal.

So, the fact that both are competing really well with the giants is commendable, because they are smaller clubs to those they compete with in every definition of the word.
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