[BOOKS] Game of Thrones for the Literate

Be careful not to confuse the burning of Shireen being GRRM's idea and Stannis being the one to do it. It is logistically impossible for Stannis to do it in the books since he is hundreds of miles away with terrible snowy conditions separating him from Castle Black, and the Battle of Winterfell is already won or lost(we'll find out the result early on in TWoW), plus, he already has Kings Blood in the form of Asha and Theon if he really wants it. When/if Shireens burning happens in the books it will be without his consent.

Book readers aren't angry at Shireen being burnt, they all suspected it would happen in the books, Stannis being the one behind is what is pissing people off because it makes no sense.

And oh, this line

Once Stannis makes a decision, he never changes his minds. Its why he's a strong commander. And its his weakness, but hes defined by his will-the only way is forward.

Is bullshit. Stannis already made his decision and firmly said "no" to the idea of burning Shireen the first time the idea was brought up, but as we saw today he suddenly changed his mind, so no D&D, you're full of shit.

EDIT:Having said all that, and even though the CGI was shit, Dany flying on Drogon was hype as *bleep*. Tyrion was in awe seeing Dany living his life long dream to ride a dragon ffs, he is truly the secret son of the Mad King

I've never been enamored with Stannis but felt like he was the best of the candidates for the Iron Throne

always had to hear from people that read the Books that he was GOAT in them (he has a very vocal fanbase from my experience) and I keep hearing how the show shits on his character

From what I understand of the books it'd be impossible for the events to play out like they did in this weeks episode since he's hundred of miles away from Shireen :/

20 good men  Stannis "Two feet of snow? Up in smoke must she go" Baratheon  

So apart from that part.. Dorne made no sense for me. Doran gives up his hostage and even gives the Lannisters one in return (because you know.. that's what these two are)? Master tactician I know he sends Nymeria to KL in the books, but from what I understand Trystane is his heir in the show?

Expected different from the pit aswell. Apart from the story and the useless unsullied fodder I expected this to be a lot more dirty. I expected clouds of sand and smoke.. fire and blood and Dany in the midst of all this. Instead her white dress didn't even get dirty. Meh. CGI was good though.

I really doubt it will be Stannis who burns Shireen in the book. It is logistically impossible, how will Stannis go back to Castle Black or how will Shireen make it to the army camps? Shireen will get burned by Melisandre, that is certain. Book Stannis makes his man swear to put Shireen on the throne if he dies. D&D said before they don't like Stannis as a character and that's why he has been portrayed as a villain since season 2.

M99 wrote:I really doubt it will be Stannis who burns Shireen in the book. It is logistically impossible, how will Stannis go back to Castle Black or how will Shireen make it to the army camps? Shireen will get burned by Melisandre, that is certain. Book Stannis makes his man swear to put Shireen on the throne if he dies. D&D said before they don't like Stannis as a character and that's why he has been portrayed as a villain since season 2.

That is such a crap reason to deviate his story to this extent I honestly thought Stannis's character on the show made such a huge progress and showed us that he could be the ideal king. And then he goes and burns Shireen.. I mean, he knew he had no other choice though but seeing him being swayed by Melissandre just makes me cringe

Many book theories suggest that Stannis doesn't go South after Winterfell he goes North to fight the Others after the Wall falls.

We just don't know because there's no book out there yet but we will know eventually. Either way I doubt D&D would lie publically about this, we just gotta deal with it.

I think even if Stannis didn't really care about his daughter this still wouldn't make a lot of sense. This is only Winterfell. Stannis doesn't plan on reigning Winterfell. He wants to be king. He wants Kings Landing.
Let's assume the burning works and he sacks Winterfell. So what? He's still in the north and his enemies still have huge armies and castles and everything. The problem is in the books he had a legit hope that the north would join his cause so that would give him an army. Now there's absolutey ZERO chance the north will join a guy who sacrifices his own daughter to a fire demon god. So what's left for him after Winterfell? Will he take his last 1000 men or whatever he has left after that and march on KL?

Book-Stannis knows that which is one the reasons why I can't see him doing it. It'll be Mel and probably Selyse who will do this.

Even in the books the Northmen might not join Stannis if the GNC is a real thing. Either way if or if not the Northmen join Stannis, in the show he doesn't need them because he already has the backing of the Iron Bank. He's attacking Winterfell to wipe out the Boltons, put a Stark in Winterfell for whom the Northmen could rally and prepare for the White Walker invasion.

Whether he will sacrifice Shireen at some point later in the books I can't tell but I'm inclined to think yes he will - if he'll be faced with the option to sacrifice Shireen and save thousands he will do it. And since D&D said this scene comes from GRRM it's as good as confirmed.

But he doesn't know about the GNC so at least he should think the north will join and imo sellswords alone won't win you a war. If I remember it right he wants to move south post sacking Winterfell and march towards Kings Landing? Maybe I remember that wrong? If not he needs support from someone or he just can't do it.

Not that the show will have to bother with this tbh. He's a prime villain now and either Brienne or 20 good men will ko him.

No. Just no.


As i was watching Davos speaking to Shireen , it kinda felt like goodbye for some odd reason and not because of the reason Davos went to say goodbye . It felt exactly like the legit GoT we-shall-never-see-each-other-again goodbye. Scene is over , a bit later comes the scene with Stannis . As it went on , i remembered the spoiler posts here. I was like , nah. nah , no .

And there it fkn comes.

FML. I guess i did well to avoid reddit like the plague then.

Stannis the Mannis is officially dead in the show , the book readers Stannis fans are probably hating the hardest right now. wtf this just happened. After what seemed like a redemption arc , or at least someone with justice in mind .. this .

Overall i enjoyed the episode , it was very good and especially the Meereen stuff was some of the best shown yet. Damn i even kinda liked the Dorne stuff this time. And everything with Drogon was simply epic .

But Shireen ; this fkd me up

..what's the GNC?

The Great Northern Conspiracy.
You might try this: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3Hk9dfMiV2ATUt2Xy11UlZ3Y0E haven't read that one though but it seems to be a good summary.

Some westeros thread if you prefer http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/77828-the-great-northern-conspiracy-reexamined/

tldr
The Northern Lords are aware of Robb Stark's will and are playing Stannis and Ramsey against each other with the goal of crowning Robb's heir-declarant Jon Snow as King in the North

holy crap that sounds awesome

thanks for the links!

BTW , obviously nobody ain't gonna give two shits right now but ; on Jaime's and Bronn's and Trystane's and Myrcella's return to king's landing... any guesses?

I am pretty curious to see if this gonna be any good by the end. Because , if they just dissapear after leaving the Water Gardens with nothing ever happening in this season. Well , that will be hilariously lame . Something must happen for at least to have some conclusion in this arc , or what was the point for the Dorne stuff ffs . It has to happen next episode , whatever it is they decided to do about their return .

and fml , still can't get past Shireen's death .

They switched Aryane(sp?) with Trystane.

The 'Fire and blood' plan is still in motion. But it will be different I guess.

Not really interested in Dorne in the show. Awful adaptation overall. From sandsnakes to Doran.


Shireen burnt alive by Stannis Seems legit.

I am surprised they did the Drogon scene because they just brought Tyrion in and I was guessing they might switch things around.

Can't wait till Daenerys bring Khal Pono to defeat the harpies.

Something will happen in Dorne..
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/a-sand-snake-in-singapore---jessica-henwick-speaks-063840208.html

Maybe it's the speech but I think it has to do with the group returning to KL.. some people think they'll off both Brienne and Jaime

M99 wrote:

"I never asked for this crown. Gold is cold and heavy on the head, but so long as I am the king, I have a duty … If I must sacrifice one child to the flames to save a million from the dark … Sacrifice … is never easy, Davos. Or it is no true sacrifice.[30] ”
– Stannis, to Davos Seaworth

ty for the link Zigra .

What happens with the Sand Snakes is…extreme. Very extreme. So I’m really curious to see how people take it. I don’t know what else I can say!" says Henwick with a laugh. "Episode 10 sets the rest of the show on a very certain path. It’s a big move in Game of Thrones, and the Sand Snakes are a part of it.

hmm , so they attack Myrcella , the Sand Snakes ?? Bronn is deaded trying to defend her ??

As for the big move.. Fire and Blood Doran talk + Dorne and King's Landing relations are over , after the attack??

Probably the attack on Myrcella she talks about , at least that's what i can gather

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

M99 wrote:

"I never asked for this crown. Gold is cold and heavy on the head, but so long as I am the king, I have a duty … If I must sacrifice one child to the flames to save a million from the dark … Sacrifice … is never easy, Davos. Or it is no true sacrifice.[30] ”
– Stannis, to Davos Seaworth

oh yes..

oh wtf

man if Stannis has a hand in this in the books too

must say however , i am more 'in shock'/mad that a father and especially a man of justice like Stannis did this , than say , talk about butchering the character. Obviously it remains different to the books and they have altered his character/image to some extend .. but let's be honest here , he has killed kin before and he has made despicable decisions before. This is Stannis , not Batman . Even his supporters know he has made despicable decisions before , despite him being wronged or whatever. Killing your brother remains killing your brother and actually be willing to kill your nephew , is well , horrible. Some would say it's almost as terrible as actually killing him.

It's still fkd up . Actually , now that i have relaxed . It kinda agrees with his character , especially after reading this bit BC mentioned from the books that i had semi-forgotten . I remember they had this part in the show too , although i used to think it would be irony and not foreshadowing , probably because of Shireen and what he would say after he learns of her death . But nope. Moving on , he has / would kill kin before to do what he feels his duty and if this is any indication whatsoever , maybe Shireen's death in the books actually involves Stannis , somehow .

Not saying that's what will happen , or what i expect or anything , but after this? i can't really rule it out.

Still doe , pic says a lot really. 20 good fkn men , u serious? smh . so i don't know. It's fkd up really , part of me thinks this is in character really , the other is quite disgusted and tries to find reasons as to why Stannis wouldn't actually do this. I guess i will have to actually form an opinion on this one , or just read reddit , some nerd will have probably figured it out by now

20 good men is awesome tbh Every time I read it I visualise the shirtless goat with his 20 predators riding to the song 20 good men

On a more serious note Stannis is obviously a pos.

I didn't choose team Cercei for no reason.

Well. I still like Stannis from the books. So far. I hope GRRM gave D&D his worst ideas and he uses his best one in the books.


Jon being killed will make me cry

But the timeline doesn't add up. Night's watch killing him just because he brought wildlings in? Nah that's a lame reason.

Promo showed him sitting at his desk looking upset. Some letters on the desk aswell.
Don't think we'll get the pink letter but maybe Sansa sent a letter asking for help?

nah , it's not lame. It's enough for the show and what they have presented us of both wildlings and NW . NW already sees Jon as one of them , good part of the NW actually.

We spend so much time with Jon that it is somewhat difficult for us to see through the eyes of someone in the NW that isn't a friend of Jon's . But give it a shot and you will see that all they see is some sort of twat wildling bastard traitor.

Jon is someone who spend a lot of time with the wildlings and his choices to risk so much to save them , well it makes up for what's coming. The NW , most of it , doesn't get Jon. They all fear the WW , but they hate the wildlings just as much , especially after the attack . All what Jon seems to do is wanting to protect them. To you and me , just bringing wildlings in might not seem really enough , but surely it isn't lame for the show . The annoying lad Olly who lost his family to the wildlings sure as hell doesn't find his reasoning lacking and i am sure there are many others over there who obviously think the same. We are talking about war here , people who lost beloved ones in the war usually don't forget. Jon did what he had to do and was right to do so. But i can see why the NW will do what they are going to do and i really don't find their reasoning lacking. Stupid , unethical ?? sure. Cnts? Definitely. But i can see why.

I am pretty sure there are show watchers who sense / expect some sort of mutiny to go on , if not FTW already.

Hmm that makes sense.


Think we will get the best reaction since the red wedding?

Reading various forums I'd say most Unsullied expect Olly to try something next episode. Hard to miss the ton of death stares tbh. Some expect him to kill Gilly (Sam), but most seem to think he'll try Jon. Don't know if they expect him to succeed though. Actually I don't think too many do.