Messi and dribbling

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Post by gnrfan Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:46 pm

Hey guys...I've been thoroughly enjoying Messi's form these days, and amid all the talk of him returning to his 'peak form' I decided to look at some of f lionelmessi10's match comps for comparison. What I noticed is back then Messi's first impulse seemed to be to run with the ball. He had no qualms about taking players on, and he'd often lose the ball(after beating a few men) but also the opposing defence would often be thrown into chaos producing a chance for villa, pedro, etc. nowadays it seems messi is much more picky about taking players on...his first thought seems to be to look for a pass that will advance the play. In other words he is much more of a percentage dribble. If course it seems he still can dribble well as we saw in the atletico games, but he usually doesn't make the attempt. Any thoughts on this? Has it made him improve or a player or would you rather have the more explosive 2011-12 messi?
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Post by Valkyrja Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:21 pm

personally, the Messi I feared most was the 08-11 one. he might be a more complete player right now, but in that period he was unstoppable at full speed.
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Post by FennecFox7 Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:24 pm

This messi is much better

Playing for the team>> having individual quality. Messi's best game was in that CL final against manchester where they won 3-1

He didn't score a hat trick, sure. But he did every little thing right. He was the reason they won
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Post by _LMG_10_ Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:46 am

I think there are various reasons why he doesn't dribble as often or (arguably) as successfully as before.

First of all his role has evolved on the team. He is the #1 playmaker and the creativity comes mostly from him. His job is to draw defenders and find the pass. He is more of a #10 now. He will still dribble if he can beat his man (or two or three) but he won't force it as much as he used to.

Also, teams now put 5 defenders on him, as opposed to 2011 where they still hadn't quite figured out how to defend him in that false 9 position. He is still by far the greatest dribbler in the world (and probably of all-time) but if you compare to 2011 or so, there is a slight decline.

You can't expect a player to dribble past 3-4 players every time he touches the ball, like he used to. We were so spoiled back then. He plays a lot smarter now, but the sheer explosiveness has whittled just a little bit. But the biggest difference is not a physical decline, it's mostly a tactical issue. He's is still the fastest player on the team I believe.

Another factor could be a mental thing, where he doesn't want to get injured, so naturally he will take a safer route in most situations.

So yeah I think he still has like 98% of that explosiveness when he was younger but you don't see it as often because of a combination of the above factors.

_LMG_10_
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Post by DuringTheWar Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:53 am

_LMG_10_ wrote:

Also, teams now put 5 defenders on him


For gods sake. You do realise if that were true Barcelona would have 2 v 1 situations everywhere on the pitch and would never, ever, pass the ball to messi.
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Post by _LMG_10_ Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:12 am

Why do you nitpick? My point is that it's harder for him to dribble nowadays because of his reputation. Teams surround him with defenders when he gets the ball.

Just look at the gif. Look how many defenders he draws. It allows Busquets to get free.

Messi and dribbling ODEIhFJ

And this isn't even an extreme example. Just watch an el clasico from the Mourinho era to see how many players would surround him lol. It was nuts.

Spoiler:

_LMG_10_
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Post by Donuts Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:33 am

_LMG_10_ wrote:Why do you nitpick?

because he feels threatened that messi could surpass his precious crackadona.
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Post by DuringTheWar Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:15 am

Donuts wrote:
_LMG_10_ wrote:Why do you nitpick?

because he feels threatened that messi could surpass his precious crackadona.


Awww who feels threatened? Me or the guy who invents retarded nicknames and has a retarded avi to defend the boyfriend he's never met.
Mexicos n1 messi fanboy rofl you should be more worried out people being dismembered in the streets than a footballer.

Lmg, it is definitely not "nitpicking" to deliver a reality check to someone that claims teams put half their frickin team on their favourite player. In that gif messi runs from one side of the box to the other, what do you expect, the defenders aren't going to run away from messi as he runs towards him. The reason busquets got free is that the dope in the corner of the picture did not track a runner from midfield. But let me guess, you're one of these loons that believe every mistake a defender makes is completely due to the mystical force field surrounding messi that causes defenders to lose their bleeping minds Rolling Eyes Notice how he got the ball a few yards outside his opponents box and was allowed to turn easily thanks to, you guessed it, having 0 defenders on him Thumbs up
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Post by Harmonica Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:25 am

Donuts wrote:
_LMG_10_ wrote:Why do you nitpick?

because he feels threatened that messi could surpass his precious crackadona.
I'm quite bemused by him the past days. I mean, he's a guy that was born in 90's, never saw Maradona play live, read from a book how good he was, and now goes on banging on him like no tomorrow. Not to mention that he's highly illogical person, extrapolating goal of the century to everything he did.

Every honest and rational person already knows the answer, and the fact that Messi came close of doing Maradona WC86, with worse team, the peak month of Maradona, while being "awful" to his standards should be an argument ending suggestion already, when you consider the rest of the career.
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Post by DuringTheWar Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:28 am

Oh harmonica do you continue to both stalk and lie about me? I could handle the stalking, it's kind of flattering to know I'm on your mind but pls refrain from spreading misinformation pls Embarassed
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Post by DuringTheWar Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:30 am

Harmonica likes making things up, he can't decide if he was born in the 70s or 80s Laughing
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Post by Harmonica Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:31 am

DuringTheWar wrote:Oh harmonica do you continue to both stalk and lie about me? I could handle the stalking, it's kind of flattering to know I'm on your mind but pls refrain from spreading misinformation pls Embarassed
What misinformation?
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Post by Collblanc Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:42 am

Both of you are acting like kids. Get over yourselfs.
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Post by Harmonica Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:51 am

DuringTheWar wrote:Harmonica likes making things up, he can't decide if he was born in the 70s or 80s Laughing
Umm, why can't I decide when you yourself said you were born in 90's?

"I was born in early 90s and have no nostalgia for past players, but i've seen about 40/50 games of maradona from various points of his career, as well as learning about his career in general, ie the achievements and obstacles he faced, and i cant help but think he was not only a better player than messi, but a vastly better player. I will try and make a detailed comparison of their abilities and the context of their achievements here, as well as offer my own explanation as to why some prefer messi" - SirWellingtonSilva (DuringTheWar) 29.6.2012

http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/who-is-the-greatest-dribbler-ever.1429954/page-3#post-26125496

Smile  Very Happy  Surprised  Laughing  Razz  rofl  Proud

Btw what does it say, when I actually have nostalgia?
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Post by Collblanc Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:55 am

Well.... That is a #rekt for sure. But plz stay ontopic and hail the great Messiah.
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Post by windkick Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:59 am

DuringTheWar wrote:
Donuts wrote:
_LMG_10_ wrote:Why do you nitpick?

because he feels threatened that messi could surpass his precious crackadona.


Awww who feels threatened? Me or the guy who invents retarded nicknames and has a retarded avi to defend the boyfriend he's never met.
Mexicos n1 messi fanboy rofl you should be more worried out people being dismembered in the streets than a footballer.


How about you keep it about football instead of having to try and attack our country to try and prove some opinion.
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Post by jibers Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:02 am

Messi and dribbling G0G3v
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:22 am

FennecFox7 wrote:This messi is much better

Playing for the team>> having individual quality. Messi's best game was in that CL final against manchester where they won 3-1

He didn't score a hat trick, sure. But he did every little thing right. He was the reason they won


Not in a position to debate whether he's better or worse but that 3-1 game IMO Iniesta was by far the best player on the pitch.
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Post by Curtinho Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:25 am

For me Messi when playing to his best is incomparable. He has everything almost and is unplayable. They did a good job in FIFA 15 this year with Messi on Legendary...he always dribbles my whole team then scores. Sad
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Post by DuringTheWar Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:43 am

Harmonica wrote:
DuringTheWar wrote:Harmonica likes making things up, he can't decide if he was born in the 70s or 80s Laughing
Umm, why can't I decide when you yourself said you were born in 90's?

What does my age have to do with you lying about yours? You've said you were born in the 80s on one occasion, 70s on another. When you start weaving a web of lies you best be careful not to get yourself tangled up, Mr catfish. I think people that try to trick others into relationships are actually living more fulfilling lives than someone trying to trick people into believing he was old enough to follow a football player.


"I was born in early 90s and have no nostalgia for past players, but i've seen about 40/50 games of maradona"

Actually seen 100 + but anyway...
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Post by Lord Awesome Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:06 pm

He lacks the speed to take on defenders like he used to 2-3 seasons ago. His game is still effective in La Liga except against RM, Atletico, & Barca. Out of the last 3 games against Atletico, Atletico featured a bad day at the office Godin in the 1st match and an Atletico without Godin in the last match. Still impressive how Messi handled them tho, but not convinced he'll do something like that again to them. First season Messi was useful against Simione's Atletico, surely the last. :coffee:
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Post by jibers Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:11 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
FennecFox7 wrote:This messi is much better

Playing for the team>> having individual quality. Messi's best game was in that CL final against manchester where they won 3-1

He didn't score a hat trick, sure. But he did every little thing right. He was the reason they won


Not in a position to debate whether he's better or worse but that 3-1 game IMO Iniesta was by far the best player on the pitch.


Messi raped Atletico in Simeones first 2 seasons...bizarre comment.
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Post by harhar11 Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:39 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
FennecFox7 wrote:This messi is much better

Playing for the team>> having individual quality. Messi's best game was in that CL final against manchester where they won 3-1

He didn't score a hat trick, sure. But he did every little thing right. He was the reason they won


Not in a position to debate whether he's better or worse but that 3-1 game IMO Iniesta was by far the best player on the pitch.


Not true. Iniesta was, by far, the best player in the CL final of 09. But in the CL 2011, while Iniesta was by no means bad, Messi was by far the best player on the pitch. The guy was unplayable that night.

Plus, IIRC, he nutmegged 3 different player throughout the game Laughing


Last edited by harhar11 on Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Bankz Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:17 pm

lol, messi was by far the best player in that 2011 final, I mean how can anyone even try to think otherwise?
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Post by DuringTheWar Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:49 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/champions-league/8541343/Manchester-United-v-Barcelona-player-ratings.html

Iniesta 7, messi and Xavi 9. That how I remembered it too, iniesta wasn't as good as the 09 final. Some funny comments Laughing
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